I doubt that anybody who hangs out on Trek message boards is all that casual a fan.
Am I crazy for saying that TNG is the best show of ALL time of any TV show ever?
- Thread starter The Rock
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I doubt that anybody who hangs out on Trek message boards is all that casual a fan.
Sensors detect a sports joke flying over my head.
Hey, I never claimed I was a fan of everything . . ..
I want to apologize for my previous post. It was uncalled for and condescending, and I came across as a gatekeeper and an idiot. I will not even try to salvage whatever my original point was, because at this point it is moot. If anyone was offended or upset by my words, I can't say I blame you, if this were say a Batman or Lord of the Rings forum and someone had said something along those lines to me about my fandom, I'd be royally pissed off. For my words and behavior, I'm sorry. I would take it back if I could but I can't.
Penalty card in soccer. Player gets ejected.Sensors detect a sports joke flying over my head.
Hey, I never claimed I was a fan of everything . . ..
No offence taken here whatsoever!
You guys are far too kind, but I appreciate your patience and understanding. I personally felt bad after posting the response I did, and like I said I wish I hadn't said it. Let's just say the only part of my response that I still think is salvageable is that I love TNG, and it is my personal favorite TV show of all time, unless Strange New Worlds continues to blow me away for all the seasons it airs.
I appreciate the apology, though I didn't think you meant ill with your OP, and if it rubbed me a bit the wrong way I wouldn't say I rose to the level of being offended.
I agree with Greg and others that there's a world of difference between "favorite" and "best", and that "favorite" sounds a lot less as though one's trying to present an objective opinion.
My love for DS9 and everything it did and everything it would inspire in terms of novels and such is deep and real, and by and large I've been a deep fan of the franchise since I was five years old (though PIC really tested me), but I'm also an editor-writer, and I can't shut that part of my brain off, and when I look at DS9 I also see a lot of flaws, some of which are due to it often being episodic, others of which may have been imposed by TPTB, and others of which may have been beyond anyone's ability to predict or do anything about. I think ISB accomplished a lot of great things, but I don't think he was flawless either. I'm pretty sure he doesn't think he's flawless either.
So, when I compare DS9 to Mad Men or Six Feet Under or Game of Thrones (not counting the last two seasons!) or in some ways The Good Place or other shows, I have to try to look at it in terms of how consistently I feel the shows hit versus missed, and while I will defend the greatness of DS9 until the end of my days, I am left feeling those other shows tended to have more consistent greatness, and as such I would, if pressed, say they are "better", but I would also say that they're all very different types of shows, and that, as such, nobody should feel they have to watch any of them (including DS9) if it's not their kind of television...though, if they're openminded enough, I would also say that each of them is worth watching in different ways.
One of the things I don't trust about especially "diehard" fans is that the ones I've been exposed to often present to me as shuttering themselves off from other forms of entertainment. I love DS9, but I would never want to perpetually be rewatching it, because what else would I be missing out on, and how can I claim to have any sort of objective appreciation for it if I stop exposing myself to what else is out there? And, if you feel Star Trek is truly about exploring the unknown and "seeing what's out there", there's a sad sort of irony for the people who limit themselves to only experiencing Star Trek and don't see what's out there.
I agree with Greg and others that there's a world of difference between "favorite" and "best", and that "favorite" sounds a lot less as though one's trying to present an objective opinion.
My love for DS9 and everything it did and everything it would inspire in terms of novels and such is deep and real, and by and large I've been a deep fan of the franchise since I was five years old (though PIC really tested me), but I'm also an editor-writer, and I can't shut that part of my brain off, and when I look at DS9 I also see a lot of flaws, some of which are due to it often being episodic, others of which may have been imposed by TPTB, and others of which may have been beyond anyone's ability to predict or do anything about. I think ISB accomplished a lot of great things, but I don't think he was flawless either. I'm pretty sure he doesn't think he's flawless either.
So, when I compare DS9 to Mad Men or Six Feet Under or Game of Thrones (not counting the last two seasons!) or in some ways The Good Place or other shows, I have to try to look at it in terms of how consistently I feel the shows hit versus missed, and while I will defend the greatness of DS9 until the end of my days, I am left feeling those other shows tended to have more consistent greatness, and as such I would, if pressed, say they are "better", but I would also say that they're all very different types of shows, and that, as such, nobody should feel they have to watch any of them (including DS9) if it's not their kind of television...though, if they're openminded enough, I would also say that each of them is worth watching in different ways.
One of the things I don't trust about especially "diehard" fans is that the ones I've been exposed to often present to me as shuttering themselves off from other forms of entertainment. I love DS9, but I would never want to perpetually be rewatching it, because what else would I be missing out on, and how can I claim to have any sort of objective appreciation for it if I stop exposing myself to what else is out there? And, if you feel Star Trek is truly about exploring the unknown and "seeing what's out there", there's a sad sort of irony for the people who limit themselves to only experiencing Star Trek and don't see what's out there.
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Ye, sometimes you also love things because of the flaws.
Perfection can be boring...
This is my biggest point that I agree with. And the tendency I see (not here as much) is that Trek fans put Trek on this high pedestal that it cannot be touched. And that makes the comparison game rather fatiguing because there are many shows out there that I remember as fondly as Trek, and find as engaging and others do not.
Variety is the spice of life, as it were.
Which is why I find reboots and prequels hard to get into; they are tied in too much to what's already been done than to explore something new or to build on something in a fresh new way. One of DSC's more shrewd choices was to ditch the prequel aspect and shift to a new point in time. (FWIW, I recall liking what they did for Harry Mudd, who was rendered too much a cartoon in TOS's "I, Mudd" when he could have been a far more effective villain, which just goes to show that a reboot isn't always a bad thing, ask BSG about that as well as seasons 1 and 2 rock...) Also, LDS does cling to some TNG-era aesthetics but managed to take a life of its own and from the very beginning. Not bad for a show loaded with too many callbacks for even my tastes, but it's made its own thing - the Pakleds being one terrific example of this.
Not exactly true in my case.
I have a lot of other interests as well, like sports, music and outdoor activities. I also read much, not even Star Trek books but biographies, history and exciting stories.
Not to mention that I used to watch a lot of different series as well. Not only SF like Star Trek and Star Wars but also series like NCIS, CSI and all kinds of series which I found interesting
Not so much now since almost all series I used to like are gone now and the new ones is not my taste to say the least. Too much blood orgies, doom-and-gloom and unlikeable characters.
The same with TrekLit where good characters are killed off and ruined by certain authors.
Fortunately there are other things to read about.
As for TOS, TNG, DS9 and season 1-3 of Voyager, I actually like to watch them, even if I had watched them before.
Mostly because there are not so much else to watch nowadays but also because it gives me a good feeling to watch them and there's always something new to discover which I haven't noticed before.
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I love it, I don't think its flawless, pretty much nothing let alone nothing on television is, but I think it's indeed great with a lot to love and especially in how unique a kind of show it is, the characters so idealized and yet I think also not unrelatable, the show's philosophical views very removed from most viewers and yet I think not offputting or alienating, it's also a lot more varied and less formulaic than even a lot of other good shows.
I think it's at least one of the best science fiction series and sure one of the best television series period, also because while it did lose a little steam late on it did so a lot less than many other big long lasting series, though maybe I haven't seen enough other complete TV series (though in part because most others just generally/overall don't appeal to me as much).
I think TTZ, the original series/Deep Space Nine and B5 are the only ones as/more often claimed to be.
I thought, while disagreeing on a lot, it was an interesting, reasonable list from very different time periods and kinds of shows, the original series and Buffy, Batman animated, maybe Deep Space Nine probably the only real obvious ones left out, though it does highlight how weird it feels to try to overall rate and compare shows that lasted 20 years, let alone more and/or with really different casts, let alone really different casts every few years or every year.
I think it's at least one of the best science fiction series and sure one of the best television series period, also because while it did lose a little steam late on it did so a lot less than many other big long lasting series, though maybe I haven't seen enough other complete TV series (though in part because most others just generally/overall don't appeal to me as much).
I think TTZ, the original series/Deep Space Nine and B5 are the only ones as/more often claimed to be.
I thought, while disagreeing on a lot, it was an interesting, reasonable list from very different time periods and kinds of shows, the original series and Buffy, Batman animated, maybe Deep Space Nine probably the only real obvious ones left out, though it does highlight how weird it feels to try to overall rate and compare shows that lasted 20 years, let alone more and/or with really different casts, let alone really different casts every few years or every year.
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It has its bright spots, if you pretend TNG didn't make #44. And #30 is really #1. And their #1 was my #2.
No scatalogical riffs here, please.
Mad Men is my #1 favorite show. As far as Star Trek, I still put TOS over TNG, but the gap is much smaller than it used to be.
I put TOS at #5 NOW, after HILL STREET, I LOVE LUCY, America's HOMICIDE and Australia's PRISONER. I don't put TNG anywhere, though when I debuted it looked great on the pre-broadcast satellite feed.
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