He didnt show that much esteem to Duras.
Think he still saw Gowron as a klingon warrior just one that had to die?
Think he still saw Gowron as a klingon warrior just one that had to die?
Why did worf howl to mark Gownrons passing?
- Thread starter WesleysDisciple
- Start date
Duras killed is girl, but Gowron was just a dick.
Gowron's actions toward the end of his life may have been questionable, but he still died an honorable death, and so that's why Worf gave him the death howl.
Duras, OTOH, was just a prick. There was no honor in his death - Worf simply killed him in retaliation for K'Ehleyr. Everyone knows that Duras killed K'Ehleyr for her threatening to expose his crimes, so Duras' own death was, as Picard pointed out...in disgrace. That's why Duras didn't deserve the death howl.
Duras, OTOH, was just a prick. There was no honor in his death - Worf simply killed him in retaliation for K'Ehleyr. Everyone knows that Duras killed K'Ehleyr for her threatening to expose his crimes, so Duras' own death was, as Picard pointed out...in disgrace. That's why Duras didn't deserve the death howl.
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Not one of Duras' buddies in "Reunion" did the howling ritual for him, either. Did they all think he was unworthy of it?
There's probably a whole thread about this somewhere. The death howl seems to be a sporadic thing. Sometimes Klingons that you would definitely think deserve it don't get the howl, such as Kang and Koloth in "Blood Oath."
Kor
There's probably a whole thread about this somewhere. The death howl seems to be a sporadic thing. Sometimes Klingons that you would definitely think deserve it don't get the howl, such as Kang and Koloth in "Blood Oath."
Kor
How was Duras less honorable than Gowron? Both readily and willingly agreed to a duel with a man beneath them, and lost their lives as the result. Either one could have had Worf gunned down instead.
Not howling for Duras might have been a show of contempt. But that only paints Worf as the one without honor.
(Why would killing K'Ehleyr cast Duras in disgrace, BTW? From the forensics of it, odds are that Duras personally slew her in an honorable duel, too!)
Timo Saloniemi
Not howling for Duras might have been a show of contempt. But that only paints Worf as the one without honor.
(Why would killing K'Ehleyr cast Duras in disgrace, BTW? From the forensics of it, odds are that Duras personally slew her in an honorable duel, too!)
Timo Saloniemi
Worf hated Gowron but Gowron wasn't a coward. He fought Khaless man to man and fought Worf willingly.
Worf knew that Duras was not honorable in his prior actions. He may have died in an honorable way, but he wasn't an honorable person. It wasn't just Duras killing K'Ehleyr, as it was that Druas killing K'Ehleyr was to hide his dishonor (his crimes). At least this is how I think Worf sees it.
In the old pre-spaceflight days of various Klingon houses fighting against each other for control of the Homeworld, warfare must have been a real hassle as everybody kept calling constant halts to the fighting to do the howling ritual every single time somebody fell on the battlefield. Or maybe they just saved it all up for one humongous communal howl at the very end. 
Kor
Kor
Gowron died with honor. Duras was in bed with the Rommies.
See, I don't get how either of these would create a difference between Duras and Gowron. Worf slew Gowron for the same reason he impaled his sword in Duras' chest: the man would preemptively kill out of cowardly motivations, in order to be safe from an inconvenient but supposedly not equally cowardly adversary (Gowron used his position to send Martok and other political opponents of his to die in hopeless battles, Duras killed or, worse still, ordered killed, a witness to his deeds). And both opponents fought Worf with honor and died because of it - but while Duras was in bed with the Rommies, Gowron was in bed with the Feds.
Seeing differences between the two adversaries is a bit artificial to begin with, and specifically to begin with: when introduced, they are the Scylla and Charybdis that Picard has to choose from, both scheming bastards, both involved in a plot to murder their predecessor (and we still don't know which one of them did it), both dallying with the Empire's traditional enemies for covert or overt backing. The only real difference is that Duras is the one who plots with the people that Worf specifically hates, and Gowron is the one who plots with the people Picard represents.
But there's another difference: when gutting Gowron, Worf is older and supposedly wiser, and acting in political interest even if also driven by personal motivations. Showing contempt to an opponent is a thing to be avoided when you win one for the Empire in front of a crowd of leaders and deciders!
Timo Saloniemi
It's also a matter of where Worf believed their soul would go. That Gowron was going to Stovokor and Duras was not.
Duras was a dishonorable man, through and through. He conspired with Romulans. His father got Worf's parents killed in a sneak attack. He got the Council to blame Worf's dad for his family's disgrace and dishonor. He used one of his own people to hide a bomb to try to kill Picard, K'Ehleyr, and Gowron. He poisoned K'mpec.
Gowron was nowhere near as bad, and he didn't kill the woman he loved. And though he got his family into pariah status in recent years, Gowron was the one to restore it as the first thing he did when he became Chancellor after K'mpec and the rest of the Council did what they did to Mogh. Gowron's last actions in the war were not good, but he did more right than wrong, on balance.
Regarding Kang and Koloth, they got something even better than the death howl... Kor was singing in their honor. Plus, they could very well have gotten the howl and we just didn't see it.
Gowron was nowhere near as bad, and he didn't kill the woman he loved. And though he got his family into pariah status in recent years, Gowron was the one to restore it as the first thing he did when he became Chancellor after K'mpec and the rest of the Council did what they did to Mogh. Gowron's last actions in the war were not good, but he did more right than wrong, on balance.
Regarding Kang and Koloth, they got something even better than the death howl... Kor was singing in their honor. Plus, they could very well have gotten the howl and we just didn't see it.
Well, see... Probably not.
I mean, Duras had no motivation to kill K'Mpec. The old fat cat was his life insurance, the force that kept in power those who had agreed to hide Duras' conspiring with the Romulans.
Duras also had no motivation to bomb anybody, least of all with a Romulan bomb! If (and when) he wanted Gowron dead, he'd do something that would actually have a realistic chance of killing the target.
But Gowron had ample motivation to do both. Killing K'Mpec at long last would allow him to vie for power while undermining Duras'. And exposing Duras' Romulan connections there would serve Gowron's cause best - so planting one of those microscopic bombs on one of Duras' men and then harmlessly blowing it up would be among the things to try, since it could never backfire.
In the end, Gowron won the game the both played. It only makes sense that he was the better competitor, the one who could pull off his assassinations and smear campaigns with the greater panache. (Although it also helped that K'Mpec had chosen to side with the Federation there, in a rather foolish gesture that would give his murderer added confidence to proceed.)
That we don't see a howl with every slaying of Klingons that Worf commits can certainly sometimes be excused by saying that it happened moments later. It's okay to howl at an already cooling body; it's also okay to howl prematurely, as with K'Ehleyr, whom Crusher apparently attempted to save after the initial death, afterwards commenting that it had been too late for that (a fact Worf would be less likely to know than the Doctor).
Would Worf howl for Duras afterwards? Would Duras' crew? Well, the camera cuts away basically immediately; there wouldn't have been time for anybody to kneel and direct Duras' gaze skyward or anything. Of course it's delicious to think that even Duras' own men would hate him enough to not only allow Worf to beam aboard, but also to celebrate the death of the boss with a good round of non-howling. But the scene really doesn't cater for that...
Timo Saloniemi
The howl was to warn the dead that a warrior was coming - while I don't think they have said this on screen I always took it to mean the honoured dead going to Sto-vo-kor.
Worf wouldn't consider Duras honourable as he was had covered up his own families disgrace having allied with the Romulans at the cost of Worf's own family name.
In comparison while Gowron had done less than honourable acts towards the end of his life Worf seemed to still hold some respect for him, maybe believing one day they could be friends again.
In Worf's mind Gowron was going to Sto-vo-kor and so did the howl, Duras in his mind was joining the Barge of the Dead on their way to Gre'thor so no honourable end there.
As for why Duras' men or even Kor with Kang and Koloth - nothing says it couldn't have happened right after the scene cut away (and otherwise its just down to the story not using it)
Worf wouldn't consider Duras honourable as he was had covered up his own families disgrace having allied with the Romulans at the cost of Worf's own family name.
In comparison while Gowron had done less than honourable acts towards the end of his life Worf seemed to still hold some respect for him, maybe believing one day they could be friends again.
In Worf's mind Gowron was going to Sto-vo-kor and so did the howl, Duras in his mind was joining the Barge of the Dead on their way to Gre'thor so no honourable end there.
As for why Duras' men or even Kor with Kang and Koloth - nothing says it couldn't have happened right after the scene cut away (and otherwise its just down to the story not using it)
Ideas if anyone does the howl when a warships shot down with all hands aboard.
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