A Cross-series Observation: If Klingons are such legendary warriors, why are they so easily defeated or dejected by Starfleet?

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Klingons fancy themselves as some of the best warriors in the galaxy. They like to tell people about it all the time. They can't wait to drop the words "warrior" and "honor." They're the vegans of Star Trek. However, does anyone else really ever describe them as such? Do we have any evidence of it being fact? Or is it merely some self-serving PR from the Empire?

Spoiler: ST Lower Decks:S5 Spoilers.

This is the same supposedly Vaunted KDF that couldn't hit a Small ShuttleCraft at "Point Blank Range".
Literally 1 in 60 Disruptor shots HIT from 3x Bird of Preys chasing down a Klingon Shuttle at close range.

That's how horribly trained those fine "Klingon Officers were trained!
It's like they don't understand how their weapons on the supposed ship they were trained on, are supposed to work!
Almost nobody at the Weapons Console or Pilot Seat bothered to read the manual on how to use the ship to fight.
Even though fighting is their #1 attribute & job.

While most Star Fleet Tactical Officers & Crew train proficiently in how to use their StarShips to maximum capability in most cases.

Usually they won't miss as bad as those poor Klingons that we saw missing their simple weak target of a lowly shuttle.

 

[matthunter]

I actually liked the rationale set forth in the Dominion War Sourcebook for the Last Unicorn Games RPG series - the KDF used to be a dumping ground for the dregs: the real talent was in the fleets of individual Houses. Martok overhauled the system when given free reign to fight the Dominion War.

 

[The Wormhole]

Klingons fancy themselves as some of the best warriors in the galaxy. They like to tell people about it all the time. They can't wait to drop the words "warrior" and "honor." They're the vegans of Star Trek. However, does anyone else really ever describe them as such? Do we have any evidence of it being fact? Or is it merely some self-serving PR from the Empire?

Odo considered being a Klingon Warrior to be a Big Deal in Sons of Mogh when he had this to say about Kurn getting shot in the line of duty:

WORF: What happened?
ODO: Kurn found a container of contraband in the lower hold of the Boslic ship. When he confronted their Captain, the man pulled out a disruptor pistol, and then Kurn let himself get shot.
WORF: Let himself?
ODO: Kurn is a trained Klingon warrior. He could have disarmed the Boslic without breaking a sweat, but he just stood there, let the man pull out his weapon, aim, and fire. The only thing that saved him was the man was so frightened, his hand was shaking.

Spoiler

This is the same supposedly Vaunted KDF that couldn't hit a Small ShuttleCraft at "Point Blank Range".
Literally 1 in 60 Disruptor shots HIT from 3x Bird of Preys chasing down a Klingon Shuttle at close range.

That's how horribly trained those fine "Klingon Officers were trained!
It's like they don't understand how their weapons on the supposed ship they were trained on, are supposed to work!
Almost nobody at the Weapons Console or Pilot Seat bothered to read the manual on how to use the ship to fight.
Even though fighting is their #1 attribute & job.

While most Star Fleet Tactical Officers & Crew train proficiently in how to use their StarShips to maximum capability in most cases.

Usually they won't miss as bad as those poor Klingons that we saw missing their simple weak target of a lowly shuttle.

Like I alluded to earlier in this thread, this is fiction where the bad guys are required to have bad skills in comparison to our heroes. Furthermore, the example you cite is from comedy where this rule is doubly applied as it's meant to be part of the joke, which other sitcoms have made fun of on other occasions:

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Also, your example is from an episode which aired less than six months ago, meaning your post should have a Spoiler Warning in it.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

meaning your post should have a Spoiler Warning in it.

Fixed it, didn't realize time wasn't up yet.

 

[1001001]

Also, your example is from an episode which aired less than six months ago, meaning your post should have a Spoiler Warning in it.

Doesn't help when the spoiler is quoted...

Fixed.

 

[fireproof78]

I saw a 2 year old news story of a Gurkha who fought off 40 train robbers and it made me think of this thread. It reinforced the idea that a solo combatant can fend off a group if they are not trained to work together.

Bishnu Shrestha - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It's not just superior training but also training together. Klingon warriors are good in one on one but as a group they struggle significantly.

 

[BillJ]

Most are just violent, clumsy oafs.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Most are just violent, clumsy oafs.

Even a "Buff StarFleet" Captain can easily intercept a Klingon Punch with his bare hands.

Spoiler: ST:LDS S5 Spoilers

Captain Jack Ransom

is literal proof that with enough working out, Klingons aren't all that tough in a pure melee battle.

 

[Qonundrum]

It reminds me of a song:

♪
The power of plot is a curious thing
Make Gorkon weep, make General Chang sing
Neuter the strong to a shower of strength
More than Lore's feeling
that's the power of plot
♫


It's a well-trodden trope, in taking out the big strong character to show how much more undefeatable the baddie of the week is. As the weeks go by and the trope is increasingly used as a crutch, it doesn't do any favors.

And speaking of being rotten shots, while the 1977 Star Wars film had the one scene where they were supposed to miss in order to let the heroes escape with the tracking device neatly mounted, all the other scenes were supposed to show them being genuinely good at what they did. But still were a gaggle of nits, which would carry on into the sequels as well. It all goes back to the plot crutch where, with luck, they sell it convincingly enough that the audience buys into it.

 

[The Wormhole]

Captain Jack Ransom i

It's been less than six months since Jack Ransom received that particular title.

 

[fireproof78]

literal proof that with enough working out, Klingons aren't all that tough in a pure melee battle.

We had that in Day of the Dove.

 

[Tenacity]

I don’t consider Discovery’s future episodes canon.

Not too many fans do, I personally don’t consider any of Discovery’s episodes to be canon.

We can see in Enterprise how they had many scientists and the like

During the Dominion Was it was a Klingon engineer who figured out how to defeat the dampening field that was causing problems.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Not too many fans do, I personally don’t consider any of Discovery’s episodes to be canon.

Not how it works. Fans aren't part of the process. Our remit is whether or not we like something or not. The latter choice doesn't de-canonized anything.

 

[fireproof78]

Not how it works. Fans aren't part of the process. Our remit is whether or not we like something or not. The latter choice doesn't de-canonized anything.

Indeed. Canon is not a democratic system.

 

[MAGolding]

One issue I have with the writing of Klingons in TNG, DS9, etc. is that Klingons are not only referred to, but represented as, dominant warriors who can fight using hand-to-hand combat or technology.

Yet, time and time again throughout the episodes and seasons you see stiff, basic starfleet cadets and officers dominate Klingons not only in hand-to-hand combat, but quickly stun or kill Klingons who foolishly beam over in open areas. The Klingons miss their shots, they get tossed around.

Hell, a 170lb Picard said the legendary line "You may test that claim at your convenience" while being threatened as he supported Worf, and the Klingon backed down? On his own turf at the high council?

I'm not saying Klingons should just kill starfleet and win, but the writing was horrible to depict Klingons verbally as unbeatable warriors and yet show how outright dumb and incompetent they often are when fighting.

What does you title mean saying that Klingons are "dejected by Starfleet"?

 

[somebuddyX]

What does you title mean saying that Klingons are "dejected by Starfleet"?

I think that dude's gone, if that's what the strikethrough in the name means. But you ever notice how some people just come to this site, burn so bright with weird posts, and then like just delete their profile after two months or something? It's like they spontaneously combust. It's so fascinating.

 

[1001001]

I think that dude's gone, if that's what the strikethrough in the name means. But you ever notice how some people just come to this site, burn so bright with weird posts, and then like just delete their profile after two months or something? It's like they spontaneously combust. It's so fascinating.

Yes, he's banned. Lasted less than a month.

Look at his previous posts and it'll be clear as to why.

Anyway....moving on.

 

[kkt]

We had that in Day of the Dove.

If I remember right, the Klingons were outnumbered and fighting in a ship they weren't familiar with.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Klingon toughness is needs of the plot. Sort of like Starfleet security,

 

[kkt]

Yes, they are trained from a young age to fight as "Individual Warriors".

Team Fighting, Group Fighting Tactics, Strategy.

That's harder to say given what we've seen.

We know for a fact that Humans don't focus soley on Individual Fighting Prowess, but also on Team-work, Co-Operation, Battle-Field Tactics, & Strategy.

In "Soldiers of the Empire" the crew were able to work together as a unit, at least during combat. And Klingons generally were very effective during the Dominion War.