I wasn't referring to either of those in my post. I was referring to Chief Engineer Pelia played by Carol Kane.
What's your unpopular opinions on SNW?
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I wasn't referring to either of those in my post. I was referring to Chief Engineer Pelia played by Carol Kane.
If you are sensing “little digs”, perhaps it is having an effect?
Not sure you should be making such broad assumptions about male viewers like they are all of one mind.
Feeling threatened?
Sue me for it.
They weren't.
Nope.
And now you're rationalizing earlier ST shows' misogyny because you liked seeing women portrayed as decorations.
You have a very vivid imagination.
I mean, this shit is public information so you could just look this up before you pull shit out of your ass. But, for the record:
Star Trek: Strange New Worlds is co-created by Jenny Lumet.
S1 producers included: Sarah Tarkoff, Robin Wasserman, and Robyn Johnson (co-producers); Andrea Raffaghello (producer); April Nocifora (supervising producer); Kirsten Beyer and Akela Cooper (co-executive producers); Jenny Lumet and Heather Kadin (executive producers).
S1 episode writers included: Jenny Lumet; Sarah Tarkoff; Akela Cooper; Robin Wasserman; and Onitra Johnson. S2 episode writers included:
S1 episode directors included: Maja Vrvilo; Leslie Hope; Rachel Leiterman; Andi Armaganian; Sydney Freeland; and Amanda Row.
S2 producers included: Kathryn Lyn and Andrea Raffaghello (producers); Kirsten Beyer and Dana Horgan (co-executive producers); Jenny Lumet and Heather Kadin (executive producers).
S2 episode writers included: Dana Horgan; Kirsten Beyer; Kathryn Lyn; Onitra Johnson; and Kay Hanley (co-writer of the original songs in "Subspace Rhapsody").
S2 episode directors included: Valerie Weiss; Amanda Row; Jordan Canning; and Maja Vrvilo.
So, yes, women are very well-represented behind the scenes on SNW.
Russian Doll is an excellent program. I see no reason to imagine Natasha Lyonne, Leslye Headland, Amy Poehler, et al, would have any problem with the depiction of women in SNW.
Moving the goalposts.
"Ad Astra Per Aspera" is amazing.
Also, "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" is not that endearing, since it literally condemns people demanding equality as being the moral equivalent of their oppressors and bigots. A better title for it would be, "Malcolm X and Bull Connor Are Equally Bad! In Space!" It's bullshit; those fighting for equality are never the moral equivalents of those who want to oppress them.
DIS wasn't cancelled for having queer equality.
So, first off, the actual Silent Bob, Kevin Smith, is a dedicated progressive who believes in women's equality and queer equality.
Secondly, if you're contending that DIS got cancelled because too many cishet straight guys were turned off by its depiction of queer equality and that therefore DIS should not have so depicted queer equality, then you're just saying that bigotry is normal and okay.
Thirdly, you are, again, moving the goalposts, since first you claimed that modern Trek would never inspire anyone and now you're trying to claim that the inspirations it has provided are invalid.
Sorry, but you're doing absolutely nothing to make me think you're not just another latent misogynist and queerphobe threatened by depictions of women's equality and queer equality.
ETA: Also, it goes without saying, but DIS wasn't cancelled because it prominently features queer characters. It was cancelled because it's a long-running series on a streaming service that has become desperate to cut costs, and older shows are inherently more expensive because of increases in actor salaries.
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Pike, Spock and M'Benga are made to look "weak"? WHAT SHOW HAVE I BEEN WATCHING?!?!??
You're completely ignoring, of course, the fact that Spock is the leader of the hijacking; the Enterprise crewmembers who are in conflict with the starbase crew are not all female.
Well... that just confirms what i have been saying the whole time. So that's a point to me then, isn't it?
Nope. You're looking at digs that are clearly framed as "desk jockie vs. person in the field" and interpreting them, for no reason, as digs at men (i.e., digs at yourself). You're doing a lot of projection.
But then people would complain about how everyone in Starfleet is now a women because it would be 4 or more women all in the same scene. Plus more importantly the show has male characters that aren't shown to be weak, so why would they do that with only two random guest character but none of your main male characters? I do agree I suppose in the sense we are suppose to be on the women's side in that scene, but that is because they are main characters. The two nerds are just random guess stars.
Don't flatter yourself. The point of you is still very much up for debate. Thus far, I see nothing at all.
Clearly the wrong one. You should be watching the sexist one for outrage.
Uh, it's not like Seven's boobs were falling out of her spandex jumper. But the good news for you is that today, you can barely find a show that doesn't have gay romance in it, or (in the case of the Righteous Gemstones, of all shows, and probably many other programs) all the floppy penises you could ever want! So many, many wieners!
So, welcome to TV Paradise! (Yes, a few women had to show some cleavage along the way, but it was all leading to a bonanaza of beefcake!)
Oh dear God. The audience that SNW is mugging for has never been more obvious.
Mmm hmm. You know what show doesn't get cancelled? A show that people watch.
I don't see how any of the men in SNW are getting 'subtle digs" jabbed at them.
And why would the fact there are more women than men lead characters automatically mean it's a show written mainly for women?
That's like saying SUPERNATURAL, with the two leads being men, were written mainly for men.
Your reasoning makes no sense.
How are men seen as 'the enemy' in SNW?
With the possible exception of PICARD and LOWER DECKS, none of the shows in the franchise are targeting a specific audience. (PICARD does seem to target more the TNG crowd, and while LOWER DECKS does appear to lean more toward targeting STAR TREK fans in general, I think there's a broad enough appeal to work for viewers who aren't Trekkies.)
For certain, NONE of them are targeting any specific gender.
I still don't see the digs at male characters. All I see with regards to the female characters are people that are really good at their job, which is what you'd expect from ANY officer who is part of the crew of the flagship.
The amount of stories for all the characters has been split pretty evenly with the entire cast, with the exception of Ortegas... but even the few things she gets, Melissa Navia truly shines in her scenes. So I'm not seeing how this means SNW is 'female centered'.
And what subtext of hostility toward men? Seriously, are you watching the same series as we are? Or did you somehow tap into our own mirror universe and are watching their version of SNW?
This is how I see the female characters...
Una Chin-Riley - extremely capable, intelligent, strong leader who knows how to remind people of their duties when necessary. She fully has her captain's back, but is not afraid to tell him he's wrong in private. Exactly what a good XO is.
Nyota Uhura - young, but capable officer who went through her journey of self-discovery to find this is where she belongs.
La'an Noonien-Singh - very capable security chief. Struggled with her past demons about surviving the Gorn and losing her family to them, being a descendant of a tyrant, and being closed off emotionally.
Christine Chapel - very capable member of the medical staff. Smart, knows how to have fun, and is very loyal to her friends. Terrible with romantic relationships, though.
Erica Ortegas - excellent pilot. Quick witted and funny. Visibly LOVES her job, which is actually rarely seen with Starfleet officers of ANY series. (I find this truly refreshing, and I would be exactly like her regarding her love of the job if I was in Starfleet.) Has some personal scars of her own from her time during the Klingon War, which we have not really dealt with... yet.
How are ANY of these female characters doing a disservice to men?
Wow, the 1950's TV shows called and said they want their overzealous Man Dominates Woman ideology back.
You obviously are spending way too much time idolizing something that went the way of the dinosaurs quite some time ago.
I'd suggest you wake up to the new reality and learn to live with it, but that would probably make your balls shrink and I'm not sure you could live with the loss of that much testosterone.
It is not all the time, nor written in 20 foot tall letters, nor against the main cast, but it is there and it is a symptom of the whole sloppily engineered "woman empowerment" agenda that permeates all NuTreks and shows up again and again.
Putting aside the comedy nature of Lower Decks, here's a pristine example of it. This almost turned me off of that show entirely.
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxnLjMJ4mxeNuT0W1CseA9XGubRnmYGRuC?si=cXzoNRuiypCx34Z0
First off, this thread is about STRANGE NEW WORLDS, not LOWER DECKS.
Secondly, Mariner has her flaws, too... exactly like Boimler, Rutherford, and the entire cast. Even the captain, her mother, has shown to make really bad decisions on occasion. And... wait for it... she's a female character.
That humanizes all of them, not makes men appear worse than women. When every character has flaws and issues and makes mistakes, that's an equal playing field, not putting down one gender to prop another up.
Do you have any actual examples from SNW itself?
Thank you for clarifying that nothing you say has any value whatsoever.
Clever! Hey, the 1990's called and they'd like your "Any criticism of modern culture must mean that the critic is a closeted Archie Bunker" putdown back.
(Hold on... I've still got the 90's on the phone).
The 1990's would also like your key to their apartment back.
Here's the newer reality for you, hot off the presses: SNW is a final squeeze of the TOS lemon, and it's making the same mistakes that DIS made by forgetting that the principle audience for a show of its nature are men just like the one pictured here, in the 23rd century wearing dork glasses for some reason and pulling his too-small shirt down over his gut while an attractive woman looks on with arms folded.
Yeah, that's right. He's the guy you want tuning in every week, cuz he's the Comicon nerd who eats up Trek along with his uncooked canned ravioli. And in order to get him and his disposable income, you're going to have to throw him a bone. And that bone is the ILLUSION that he could actually get with Ortegas or Uhura, not that they are utterly unavailable to him.
(Sad, I know. Ah, but what would a lesbian or a transman understand about loneliness?)
(Actually, what would they know about loneliness? I know lots of those types of people and they all have partners and children!
)So please, maintain your delusion where this show is not alienating those who should be its core audience. Fool yourself into thinking its sauce for the gander, deserved for centuries of oppression or however you choose to justify the subtle meanness of what used to be an all-inclusive franchise. The truth will out when Paramount pulls the plug on this lesser Trek with no warning.
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