It was a gimmick. But in turned out really well. Nominated for a Hugo Award if I recall.
"Trials and Tribble-ations"
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I thought it was great episode!!! The show did a great job with putting the DS9 actors into 1967 TOS footage. The story was OUTSTANDING!!
It was great way to show the appreciation of the original series.
Well, I meant the basic idea of Tuvok having served in the TOS movies era and us seeing that. I might have preferred he be unseen on the 1701-A (though I did enjoy seeing the Excelsior again, even in crappy quality), or the deletion of the 'memory virus' bit and just have it be a straight-on 'Flashback.'
Why did you think it was crappy? Condering they had to recreate it under the tight schedule and budget constraints of a TV show, it looks wonderful. Well, if you ask me, that is.
That said, I think Flashback was only passable. It was nowhere near as brilliant and outstanding as Trials and Tribble-ations, so much is for certain. But I kind of enjoyed it anyway. It was cool to see George Takei back as Sulu and to have a story set in the era of the movies.
Ah. I thought you meant the "sci-fi" concept in the episode; the horrible memory virus. My bad. Yeah, I liked the idea that Tuvok served with Sulu -- in fact, I enjoyed the two Excelsior novels with him in it.
Why did you think it was crappy? Considering they had to recreate it under the tight schedule and budget constraints of a TV show, it looks wonderful. Well, if you ask me, that is.
Well, you know I hate to dispute your wisdom.
But what I specifically meant was that I disliked the Jein model of the Excelsior wasn't of the same quality as the original, and the footage, which was reused with some of the TUC footage, was jarringly of a different quality. I also felt that the bridge set was poorly lit when full lighting was on.
But you are correct, for a tight schedule and budget, it wasn't bad. Maybe not wonderful, but maybe not crappy either.
I thought you meant the interior sets. I don't remember any major inconsistencies in the way the Excelsior was shown. But I must admit I havent's seen the episode in some years. (Voyager is the only Trek series I have not on DVD [yet].) Regarding the sets, well, of course they don't look exactly like the ones from TUC (from what I have gathered, lighting actually takes quite some time; I guess they hadn't got enough). But they looked acceptable to me.
Now if only the story would have been a little bit better.
That is why I like you so much. Because you can actually acknowledge that you were wrong and I was right.But you are correct, for a tight schedule and budget, it wasn't bad. Maybe not wonderful, but maybe not crappy either.
Well, as you know the Excelsior is a slight obsession of mine.
IIRC, the bridge set was given carpeting where there was previously metal plating in TUC, the 'red alert' light was different, and generally the non-alert light screen was different. I believe the forward railing was also slightly different. The lighting was the only thing that really irked me any, but like you say, it takes time to do right.
The quarters set they used for Tuvok was a redress of the small set that was used for the Junior Officers (Data, Worf, LaForge, Paris, Torres) on TNG and VGR, which in turn was a redress of the Officers' Quarters from TMP-TUC, but it doesn't really resemble it in any way, and besides we saw only saw Sulu's quarters and some bunks in a rather non-distinct room in TUC so no real inconsistency there.
I did find it odd that Valtane, who according to some was the XO, would bunk with Ensign Tuvok.
But as you say:
So true. But at least we got Kang!
Naturally.That is why I like you so much. Because you can actually acknowledge that you were wrong and I was right.But you are correct, for a tight schedule and budget, it wasn't bad. Maybe not wonderful, but maybe not crappy either.
(Incidentally, you have all the shows on DVD except VGR? Geez, you must be rich. I only have TOS and TAS. I'd almost give a finger for TNG.
)
'Flashback' is one of those episodes that just hurts my head beyond the telling of it. I was so excited for that episode before it aired. I read articles on it, and marked the date. And then the episode arrives and it's got this cool idea about Tuvok serving under Sulu during Star Trek VI and tells this cool side story (featuring Kang - in a special treat as he'd died on DS9 3 seasons previously) and they bring back all the original actors from the movie and the series - only it's based on this really lame virus storyline - and beyond that - it's all written to be based around the death of a character that DOESN'T DIE IN THE MOVIE (Dimitri Valtane). He's very much alive in the last scene. So the writers (presumably) watched that movie and then wrote the entire episode without checking to see if the character they decided to kill off was alive at the end. And beyond that, you have Janeway criticising the Classic Trek scenarios - which just felt rude; like she was disrespecting her elders or something. This episode is the example I give when people ask me why I had such problems with Voyager.
In comparison, 'Trials & Tribble-ations', which was made for the same Trek anniversary is pure Trek gold. It's fluff, but it's all in the name of fun. And it takes the tone of the classic episode and nails it, without the DS9 characters looking down on classic trek; to have made a deadly serious episode and tie that into the original 'Tribbles' episode wouldn't have worked. On top of all that It features a cool cameo by the writer of the classic episode; it has fun in jokes (Dulmer & Lucsly = Mulder & Scully); it has the continuity right (with Dax referencing Koloth) - and the special effects are breathtaking - letting us see the DS9 gang interact with almost the entired Classic Trek cast - that final scene between Sisko & Kirk is perfection. You can tell that the writers of DS9 really cared about getting that episode right. It's not my favorite episode, but it was (and remains) highly enjoyable - and light years ahead of Voyager's effort.
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Worf specifically stated that the reason the other Klingons did not look like he was, "...something we Klingons DO NOT like to discuss." So, it was not ignored.
But that was a rather clever way of avoiding explaining it, wouldn't you say?
Yes, but the issue was not ignored, per se, as the OP suggests.
Indeed - the episode didn't ignore the different Klingon makeups; it actually brought the difference into continuity. And besides....we as fans all knew the real reason the Klingons looked different. That line was just in keeping with the tone of the episode; it was an in joke between the writers and the fans of both Treks. It would have felt odd to have the in-universe explanation in this episode IMO, and unsatisfying to not give that subject the attention that (those that complain about it's absence here must surely believe) it deserved. And it fell in line with the later Enterprise episodes that actually explained in-universe why the Klingons looked different, which in retrospect makes the argument rather pointless.
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Exactly.
Had that not happened and set up the later retcon of the Augments arc on ENT, I wonder where we would be on the issue now, particularly with regard to the new movie?
I know that GR long insisted we believe that the Klingons 'always' looked like that, but that TOS only lacked the budget to pull off anything as 'exotic' and expensive. (Indeed, Klingons were cheaper than Romulans on TOS.) I wonder, then, if there would be a bigger or smaller argument over whether the new movie is just 'what it always looked like' but with a bigger budget, Klingons and all?
I know that GR long insisted we believe that the Klingons 'always' looked like that, but that TOS only lacked the budget to pull off anything as 'exotic' and expensive. (Indeed, Klingons were cheaper than Romulans on TOS.) I wonder, then, if there would be a bigger or smaller argument over whether the new movie is just 'what it always looked like' but with a bigger budget, Klingons and all?
I think the argument over the look of the Klingons would be exactly the same as it was for fans who saw "The Motion Picture" and the rest of the films and argued about the change in appearance. All of the movies have this continuity of the newer Klingon makeup, though it did seem to get more pronounced as the series of films went on.
And I think it's fairly safe to say, that GR never envisioned a time when the crew of DS9 (including new makeup Klingon Worf) would actually intereact with the Classic Trek version of the Klingons. I just don't think that entered into his equation. And while I don't know this for a fact, I have a feeling that if he had seen the results that he'd have been delighted. At the very least, I doubt he would have objected to it, given the magical results. And once that episode happened, and the two versions of klingons shared the screen, it became impossible to accept them as always having been the same. I think Gene would have rolled with those punches just fine.
Just MHO of course.Definitely. I can see Brannon Braga coming to the writing staff with the idea for "Flashback." "Let's do an episode which we can tie to Star Trek VI -- only we'll completely contradict the events of that movie! Sounds great!"
Not only that, but in "Flashback" only a few days pass between the destruction of Praxus and Kirk and Spock getting arrested. In the movie, months had past.
Really? I never even realized. I'll have to revisit the film. It was the first Trek I saw in theaters.
It does, I promise. I forgot to mention that earlier.
What a good first movie to see in the theater!
(Mine was 'The Little Mermaid.'
)
Right, but in my view this line wasn't really necessary to explain the differences - the RL reasons for them were already pretty well known and had been mentioned here, but I see no reason why having O'Brien being unable to recognize the appearance of the TOS Klingons coupled with a "we don't discuss it!" is the best possible option. If they didn't choose to simply ignore the makeup differences entirely (which is what I originally suggested), there have been other alternatives that would have worked better IMO.
The closest one that springs to mine was the suggestion in the FASA RPG (and perhaps some other sources - I'm not sure) that the Klingons comprised several different subspecies, some of whom have ridges and some do not. This makes sense for an imperialistic power, and avoids the whole convoluted idea that was used in ENT. Again, that's not to say this "explanation" is a bad one, I'm just saying some things don't necessarily need them. They're best left to the fans imaginations to a degree.
What a good first movie to see in the theater!
(Mine was 'The Little Mermaid.'
It wasn't the first movie I saw in the theater. lol. It was the first Trek that I saw in theaters, and I saw each of the films after that as well.
My first movie was 'Bambi', and I saw it when I was a Freshman in High School, with my 2 sisters. I'm from a very strict Southern Baptist family and they felt very strongly that seeing movies in theaters was a sign of the end times. Our mother disowned us briefly for seeing Bambi. I followed that up by going to see 'The Rocky Horror Picture Show'. My mother got over it in time. I saw 'The Little Mermaid' during it's rerelease. lol
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