The Refrigerator Theory

[kimc]

The real problem is that in general, across the board in all entertainment mediums, the plot device of using female death to motivate male heroes is very common.

Sad but true. In this case we had a series with a strong female lead who got fridged in order to explore the reactions of her crew and in particular her lover Chakotay who then became the main protagonist - back to the "natural" order of things.

I have a friend who attended this year's Fedcon, and she reported to me that both Terry Ferrell and Martha Hackett were unhappy with the way their character's deaths were written. Both thought their characters should have died fighting.

Never thought of it before but Seska was such a strong character yet she ends up mortally wounded while sitting in a chair on a bridge then dies while crawling to her newborn child. O-kaaayyyy.....

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Yeah, I've always felt Seska's death was a cop-out.

 

[AuntKate]

Suffice it to say, Janeway's portrayal in the Borg/Destiny books is pretty bad. She basically becomes "Admiral who refuses to listen to Enterprise captain". She's stubborn, pissy and pissed, and still disagrees even when the starship captain turns out to be correct. And she's depicted as being brash, all-knowing, She-who-rushes-in-where-angels-fear-to-tread. It's very strongly suggested that her overconfidence and stubbornness lead to her assimilation, and the assimilation of the U.S.S Einstein.

Thank you very much for this summary of Janeway's appearances in recent novels. I don't read many TNG books these days (and fewer DS9), so I wasn't aware of the "cameo" appearances she's made in these novels. However, I am not surprised to hear of the negative way she was portrayed--which is nothing like the Janeway we saw in the series. You have just illustrated, for me, the fact that the PB writers don't know the "real" Janeway. I can't believe that she changed that much on Voyager's return and on her promotion to admiral. Like Picard, she sought diplomatic solutions to problems before resorting to force and listened to advice from her staff (even if she didn't always take it). Apparently, the PB writers have been assassinating her character for years.

 

[exodus]

Suffice it to say, Janeway's portrayal in the Borg/Destiny books is pretty bad. She basically becomes "Admiral who refuses to listen to Enterprise captain". She's stubborn, pissy and pissed, and still disagrees even when the starship captain turns out to be correct. And she's depicted as being brash, all-knowing, She-who-rushes-in-where-angels-fear-to-tread. It's very strongly suggested that her overconfidence and stubbornness lead to her assimilation, and the assimilation of the U.S.S Einstein.

Thank you very much for this summary of Janeway's appearances in recent novels. I don't read many TNG books these days (and fewer DS9), so I wasn't aware of the "cameo" appearances she's made in these novels. However, I am not surprised to hear of the negative way she was portrayed--which is nothing like the Janeway we saw in the series. You have just illustrated, for me, the fact that the PB writers don't know the "real" Janeway. I can't believe that she changed that much on Voyager's return and on her promotion to admiral. Like Picard, she sought diplomatic solutions to problems before resorting to force and listened to advice from her staff (even if she didn't always take it). Apparently, the PB writers have been assassinating her character for years.

It's possable the author was never a fan of the character to begin with and used all the negitive traits about Janeway that annoyed them to use against her to "punish" her.

 

[exodus]

Yeah, I've always felt Seska's death was a cop-out.

I used to think that but now I think the way she died was justified. She died crawling on her hands & knees like the low life scum she was. Going out fighting would have made her death some what honorable by her standards, Seska didn't deserve that. She deserved to die in shame.

However, I think it would have been a more affective ep. if Seska was the one brought back from the dead in "Ashes to Ashes" instead of the unknown Lindsey Ballard.

 

[AuntKate]

Suffice it to say, Janeway's portrayal in the Borg/Destiny books is pretty bad. She basically becomes "Admiral who refuses to listen to Enterprise captain". She's stubborn, pissy and pissed, and still disagrees even when the starship captain turns out to be correct. And she's depicted as being brash, all-knowing, She-who-rushes-in-where-angels-fear-to-tread. It's very strongly suggested that her overconfidence and stubbornness lead to her assimilation, and the assimilation of the U.S.S Einstein.

Thank you very much for this summary of Janeway's appearances in recent novels. I don't read many TNG books these days (and fewer DS9), so I wasn't aware of the "cameo" appearances she's made in these novels. However, I am not surprised to hear of the negative way she was portrayed--which is nothing like the Janeway we saw in the series. You have just illustrated, for me, the fact that the PB writers don't know the "real" Janeway. I can't believe that she changed that much on Voyager's return and on her promotion to admiral. Like Picard, she sought diplomatic solutions to problems before resorting to force and listened to advice from her staff (even if she didn't always take it). Apparently, the PB writers have been assassinating her character for years.

It's possable the author was never a fan of the character to begin with and used all the negitive traits about Janeway that annoyed them to use against her to "punish" her.

I think that it is more likely that the PB editors and writers devised a "stereoptype" of Janeway at some point and simply kept returning to it as they wrote more books rather than taking a fresh look at her character in the series. It's easy to do. A writer looks at Janeway as written in the previous books and thinks that is who she is--when, in fact, they are simply perpetuating an error.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

Suffice it to say, Janeway's portrayal in the Borg/Destiny books is pretty bad. She basically becomes "Admiral who refuses to listen to Enterprise captain". She's stubborn, pissy and pissed, and still disagrees even when the starship captain turns out to be correct. And she's depicted as being brash, all-knowing, She-who-rushes-in-where-angels-fear-to-tread. It's very strongly suggested that her overconfidence and stubbornness lead to her assimilation, and the assimilation of the U.S.S Einstein.

Thank you very much for this summary of Janeway's appearances in recent novels. I don't read many TNG books these days (and fewer DS9), so I wasn't aware of the "cameo" appearances she's made in these novels. However, I am not surprised to hear of the negative way she was portrayed--which is nothing like the Janeway we saw in the series. You have just illustrated, for me, the fact that the PB writers don't know the "real" Janeway. I can't believe that she changed that much on Voyager's return and on her promotion to admiral. Like Picard, she sought diplomatic solutions to problems before resorting to force and listened to advice from her staff (even if she didn't always take it). Apparently, the PB writers have been assassinating her character for years.

The Christie Golden novels (which tend to be pretty weak, plot-wise, but have pretty good character description) show that Janeway didn't really wanted to be promoted to Vice Admiral, but just accepted it.

Which sort of contrasts with Picard at the end of the Destiny series, because he pulls the "Kirk-said-never-promote-above-Captain" card (it helps that the Admiral Picard talks to is Leonard James Akaar from the TOS episode Friday's Child, and this owes his life to Kirk) and it works.

Suffice it to say, Janeway's portrayal in the Borg/Destiny books is pretty bad. She basically becomes "Admiral who refuses to listen to Enterprise captain". She's stubborn, pissy and pissed, and still disagrees even when the starship captain turns out to be correct. And she's depicted as being brash, all-knowing, She-who-rushes-in-where-angels-fear-to-tread. It's very strongly suggested that her overconfidence and stubbornness lead to her assimilation, and the assimilation of the U.S.S Einstein.

Thank you very much for this summary of Janeway's appearances in recent novels. I don't read many TNG books these days (and fewer DS9), so I wasn't aware of the "cameo" appearances she's made in these novels. However, I am not surprised to hear of the negative way she was portrayed--which is nothing like the Janeway we saw in the series. You have just illustrated, for me, the fact that the PB writers don't know the "real" Janeway. I can't believe that she changed that much on Voyager's return and on her promotion to admiral. Like Picard, she sought diplomatic solutions to problems before resorting to force and listened to advice from her staff (even if she didn't always take it). Apparently, the PB writers have been assassinating her character for years.

It's possable the author was never a fan of the character to begin with and used all the negitive traits about Janeway that annoyed them to use against her to "punish" her.

I think Peter David's gone on record saying he didn't really like Janeway, but I could be wrong.

Ultimately, I think focus and blame should shift to the editors, who have ultimate control over what happens and what doesn't (though, as Christopher pointed out in the Trek Lit forum, editors tend to give authors leeway when it comes to writing. As long as things are generally consistent).

Thank you very much for this summary of Janeway's appearances in recent novels. I don't read many TNG books these days (and fewer DS9), so I wasn't aware of the "cameo" appearances she's made in these novels. However, I am not surprised to hear of the negative way she was portrayed--which is nothing like the Janeway we saw in the series. You have just illustrated, for me, the fact that the PB writers don't know the "real" Janeway. I can't believe that she changed that much on Voyager's return and on her promotion to admiral. Like Picard, she sought diplomatic solutions to problems before resorting to force and listened to advice from her staff (even if she didn't always take it). Apparently, the PB writers have been assassinating her character for years.

It's possable the author was never a fan of the character to begin with and used all the negitive traits about Janeway that annoyed them to use against her to "punish" her.

I think that it is more likely that the PB editors and writers devised a "stereoptype" of Janeway at some point and simply kept returning to it as they wrote more books rather than taking a fresh look at her character in the series. It's easy to do. A writer looks at Janeway as written in the previous books and thinks that is who she is--when, in fact, they are simply perpetuating an error.

Even in the books there isn't really consistent portrayal, except in the most recent couple of books where she appears and dies.

Spoiler: Janeway's death

She becomes the Borg Queen, and during a rescue attempt is killed, stopping the Borg (for now). However, she is apparently "rescued" by Lady Q, but it is implied she doesn't get sent back alive

 

[exodus]

I think Peter David's gone on record saying he didn't really like Janeway, but I could be wrong.

Ultimately, I think focus and blame should shift to the editors, who have ultimate control over what happens and what doesn't (though, as Christopher pointed out in the Trek Lit forum, editors tend to give authors leeway when it comes to writing. As long as things are generally consistent).

Yeah, kinda.
Some authors are like actors and can have a diva complex, so you don't wanna step on their toes too much because they view their writing like art and altering to much can change their "expression". While editors are like producers and juggle many responsabilities, so they won't always take an author to the mat over a story. So yes, as long as there is some consistancy they're willing to look the other way on other things. However like any form of entertainment, you just never know what your target audience will eccept until you do it.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

My problem with Peter David is that he basically turned this into one of his New Frontier novels. Those are pretty good, but can be ridiculous and punny.

Not exactly what you're looking for when a giant freaking Borg Supercube

Spoiler: [i]Before Dishonor[/i]!!

FREAKING EATS PLUTO and threatens the Federation and Earth

 

[exodus]

My problem with Peter David is that he basically turned this into one of his New Frontier novels. Those are pretty good, but can be ridiculous and punny.

Not exactly what you're looking for when a giant freaking Borg Supercube

Spoiler: [i]Before Dishonor[/i]!!

FREAKING EATS PLUTO and threatens the Federation and Earth

That's always been his style, even when he writes for comic books. David is well known for his off beat sense of humor & writing style.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

The I read about these books and what they did the Kathryn, the more I want to go psycho Janeway supporter on their behinds and avenge her death/non-death in some super venge-tastic way.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

Agreed.

I've only recently become a major Janeway supporter.

 

[exodus]

The I read about these books and what they did the Kathryn, the more I want to go psycho Janeway supporter on their behinds and avenge her death/non-death in some super venge-tastic way.

Easy, easy.
It's just a book and books aren't canon unless you choose them to be. IMO Janeway lived happily ever after on Earth after "Endgame". That's what the general audience saw and that's what we saw in "Nemesis" too.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

The I read about these books and what they did the Kathryn, the more I want to go psycho Janeway supporter on their behinds and avenge her death/non-death in some super venge-tastic way.

Easy, easy.
It's just a book and books aren't canon unless you choose them to be. IMO Janeway lived happily ever after on Earth after "Endgame". That's what the general audience saw and that's what we saw in "Nemesis" too.

*nods*

Yes... yes, this is the truth. I can accept this truth.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

I'm thinking of changing my avatar to Janeway...perhaps with "Still. Not. Dead."

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

I'm thinking of changing my avatar to Janeway...perhaps with "Still. Not. Dead."

 

[Dancing Doctor]

 

[Galekarens]

Read somewhere that M. Clark pretty much told P. David (choosing him for his dislike of Kathryn) to kill off Janeway, altho she let him decide how, & that he referred to himself as a "hired assassin." Now that Ms. Editor's gone, don't know what that means for KJ's future in trek lit, but hopefully the whole "Federation almost destroyed by Borg" scenario will morph into more postive Trek-like adventure type of books, promoting hope instead of destruction (and getting a certain Admiral out of the 'frig, of course). And, "VOY" books without KJ are not really Voyager to me, so won't read them anymore w/out her. GS. PS That KJ is alive in Trek Online is a postive development!

 

[exodus]

The I read about these books and what they did the Kathryn, the more I want to go psycho Janeway supporter on their behinds and avenge her death/non-death in some super venge-tastic way.

Easy, easy.
It's just a book and books aren't canon unless you choose them to be. IMO Janeway lived happily ever after on Earth after "Endgame". That's what the general audience saw and that's what we saw in "Nemesis" too.

*nods*

Yes... yes, this is the truth. I can accept this truth.

I am strong in the Force.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

I'm thinking of changing my avatar to Janeway...perhaps with "Still. Not. Dead."

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