The President's Address at Khitomer - Star Trek VI: TUC

[137th Gebirg]

Something has always bothered me about the opening statements as spoken by the Federation President in Star Trek VI. He goes on to say something to the effect of "Let us re-define progress to mean that just because we can do a thing, it does not necessarily mean that we must do that thing".

Now I have found this to be a very true statement as it applies to life in general, but I'm having a hard time trying to understand the context in which this statement is being said in the continuity of the movie. Was this just some throw-away line of random important-sounding words, or did it have meaning with regard to the proceedings at hand?

Thoughts?

 

[CoveTom]

That line has always bugged me a bit too, but for no specific reason I could put my finger on.

In the context of the movie, I'm not sure what he was referring to. I can't think of what thing it might be that the Federation and the Klingons were now able to do that he was indicating they shouldn't necesarilly do.

 

[Lord Garth]

It could be interpreted several ways. The hardline Federation, symbolized by Cartwright, wanted to bring the Klingons to their knees so they can dictate terms.

Just because the UFP can force their long-term adversarries to conform to their will doesn't mean they must.

In turn, this is an extending of the olive branch and assuring the Klingons that this is not the beginning of the end of their identity, which many of them appeared to be concerned about.

If the Federation/Klingon conflict was anything like the Cold War, as it was intended to be, then it was a war of ideologies and the Klingons, after their devestating losses, would feel that they have lost and in turn will lose their ideology. They fear a kind of progress where they're not a factor.

How's that for lemonade from lemons?

 

[137th Gebirg]

^^^ Pretty darn good. Thanks much, Lord Garth, that makes a great deal of sense.

I kind of wish we had heard the full content of the speech (like in a script or something), where the full context of what he said could be fully appreciated and understood.

 

[Arthur Frelling Dent]

Considering TUC is in many ways an allegory about the end of the Cold War, I've always thought that line sounded a lot like the then-recent debate on the cost of and need for the B-2. That is, "Just because we can build a stealth bomber doesn't mean we should."

 

[Crewman47]

Just wondering but what does the novel have to offer on this scene? I'm assuming that that scene is longer in the novel than what we see in the film of course.

 

[Lord Garth]

I don't remember. I haven't read the novel since junior high, but I'll take a look.

 

[Lord Garth]

Page 268

President Ra-gahoratrei: "We are gathered here today in high hopes, believing that differing civlizations of goodwill can work together to overcome intolerance...

We believe that, with understanding and patience, it will be possible to resolve what seperates us. Let us redefine progress to mean that just because we can do a thing, it does not necessarily follow that we must do that thing.

We believe that the responsibility for destiny rests squarely on our own shoulders..."

The narrative describes Cartwright's thoughts, nothing from the President's point of view, so what you see is what you get. He's just Mr. Important giving the Big Speech.

 

[SmoothieX]

He's just Mr. Important giving the Big Speech.

I still try to imagine him as Red Forman putting his foot in someone's ass.

Can you imagine Red dealing with the Klingons?

 

[A beaker full of death]

Arthur Frelling Dent said:
Considering TUC is in many ways an allegory about the end of the Cold War, I've always thought that line sounded a lot like the then-recent debate on the cost of and need for the B-2. That is, "Just because we can build a stealth bomber doesn't mean we should."

Uh, it's about the bomb. The Bomb. The button. It was a quote or a paraphrase of... maybe JFK?

 

[Deleted 2]

I've previously always tuned out that speech, and assumed that the writers intended it to sound like meaningless political babble--which I still think it does.

 

[Lord Garth]

A beaker full of death said:

Arthur Frelling Dent said:
Considering TUC is in many ways an allegory about the end of the Cold War, I've always thought that line sounded a lot like the then-recent debate on the cost of and need for the B-2. That is, "Just because we can build a stealth bomber doesn't mean we should."

Uh, it's about the bomb. The Bomb. The button. It was a quote or a paraphrase of... maybe JFK?

Just like I thought, lemons. I'm not surprised at all.

Nick Meyer must have decided, "Reagan and Kennedy were the most inspirational presidents of the last 30 years, so I'll make the Federation President just like them. Gorkon could be Gorbachev but that's way too obvious, so what inspriational leader from the past can I make him like? Lincoln! We're on a roll with presidents and since only Nixon could go to China, we'll make Kirk like Nixon, well-intended but always comes off looking bad, and we'll go with that right up until he's sent to Rura Penthe and he'll change from there. So let's make Spock be Kissinger. Perfect!"

 

[Arthur Frelling Dent]

A beaker full of death said:

Arthur Frelling Dent said:
Considering TUC is in many ways an allegory about the end of the Cold War, I've always thought that line sounded a lot like the then-recent debate on the cost of and need for the B-2. That is, "Just because we can build a stealth bomber doesn't mean we should."

Uh, it's about the bomb. The Bomb. The button. It was a quote or a paraphrase of... maybe JFK?

I never said the B-2 debate was what the line was specifically intended to mirror, only that is what I personally thought of when I first heard the line in the theater on opening night. The debate over the development of the B-2 and the "just because we can doesn't mean we must" argument against it were very much in the news at the exact time the movie was made and released. Who knows, maybe it did cross Nicholas Meyer's mind when he wrote the screenplay, even if only as a coincidence. It certainly seemed like an obvious connection to me at the time.

 

[WalkinMan]

In a word, the statement seemed to me to be about---pragmatism.

Pragmatic minds would realize that the Federation and Klingons had little to gain from continued hostilities...forging peace and an eventual alliance was for the benefit of both parties.

The other line which bugged me a bit was the "assimilation" line, I thought that space was big enough that the "homo sapiens only club" lines were a bit overdone.

 

[Kolrad]

Zero Hour said:
I've previously always tuned out that speech, and assumed that the writers intended it to sound like meaningless political babble--which I still think it does.

That's pretty much what it seems like to me. I always found that statement to be pretty puzzling. I have a very literal mind, so I always imagine looking up the word "progress" in a dictionary and finding--

progress. Noun. Just because we can do something, it does not follow that we must do that thing.

That's not a workable definition of "progress" at all! Just try to use it in a sentence with that meaning! It's not even the right part of speech anymore, for goodness' sake!

And yet, it is the sort of thing I can imagine a politician saying, because I can sort of guess what he means if I don't try to think about it too much.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Lord Garth said:
Gorkon could be Gorbachev but that's way too obvious, so what inspriational leader from the past can I make him like? Lincoln!

Interviews of the time confirmed that "Gorkon" was a name deliberately reminiscent of "Gorbachev" and the beard, with its grey streak, was deliberately a homage to Lincoln.

 

[jayrath]

I believe the "things" speech is a play on JFK's speech announcing the Apollo missions.

 

[Computer]

That line bothered me because of the way it sounded, while the point is a great one I think it could have been more eloquently worded.

The line echos "We choose to do these and other things not because they are easy but because they are hard" - JFK

 

[Vger23]

I always thought this meant that The Federation was in no way obligated to assist the Klingon Empire. They "could," but it isn't necessarily a "must."

The "progress" he refers to is that the Federation has, under no obligation, decided to go forward with a peace process.
It always made sense to me.

Sorry, I know this was from 8,000 years ago, but I'm SO freaking happy to find a Star Trek board that's more than just stupid message board games and general discussions about politics and religion. There is a WEALTH of great discussion here. Awesome.

 

[Alrik]

^

The thread may have been long dead, but the POV is fresh. With that being the case, welcome to TBBS Vger23. Make yourself at home.