The Original TOS Characters... Too Perfect and Less Plot Threads...???

[VulcanMindBlown]

First off, let me say that TOS, in the 1960's, was my favorite show of all of the Star Trek shows... but I don't think that it was a perfect show looking back. Let me explain...

Firstly, the characters seemed too perfect; they had it all together and their was no vulnerablities... Yes, there was Spock acting "emotion" by being sarcastic to Dr. McCoy's remarks, but that wasn't the same of what happened in the shows that were made later. Uhura, Chekov, Sulu, and Scotty seemed like they didn't have any problems...

Secondly, there were not that mainly character threads in the plot that made me like them and have them move forward in the plot. Now Spock did go through Kolinahr in TMP and meet with Data later in TNG's "Unification" episodes. Kirk did have himself getting older in TWOK, but unless I missed something... that was it.

I was surprised when TOS came up 2nd in terms of what was TrekBBS's favorite cast.....!!

Does anyone have any other thoughts, responses or comments?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Weirdly, I consider TOS my favourite because the characters were the most flawed and relatable of all the Treks.

Kirk's ego.
Spock's emotional problems.
McCoy's erratic behaviour.
Scotty's drinking and stressing.
Chekov's accent which was virtually a speech impediment.

 

[VulcanMindBlown]

Weirdly, I consider TOS my favourite because the characters were the most flawed and relatable of all the Treks.

Kirk's ego.
Spock's emotional problems.
McCoy's erratic behaviour.
Scotty's drinking and stressing.
Chekov's accent which was virtually a speech impediment.

Everyone has a different perspective.... I value yours...!!!

 

[dahj]

Uhura, Chekov, Sulu, and Scotty seemed like they didn't have any problems...

Well that's because they usually didn't have much of anything to do on the show...

 

[plynch]

Shows were different. Scifi adventure stories, not character development. It's what I grew up on. Joe Friday and the other guy don't change. Or Marshall Dillon. Or Mr. Haney. It's kinda comforting. And especially if you want a good scifi what-if story, TOS is good.

I'm on record here as prefering my heroes already formed, and not seeing WHY they are the way they are. Odd, since I was a psych major! But I prefer the archetypal (but not totally perfect) hero old-Kirk to angsty, jerky, developing hero nu-Kirk. Ymmv, Compare 1970s Willy Wonka to Depp's daddy issues, I'll take Gene Wilder.

As to to perfect. Spock is a MESS, man. The whole show and movies are one long character arc of him. McCoy is far from perfect, clearly lonely, compensating for something by needing to heal (sublimation, the Freudians would say). Kirk is also alone, but married to duty which has its drawbacks.

Thanks for prompting thought, Be well!

 

[TLOZ Lover]

I agree with King Daniel Beyond. Most of the major TOS characters were flawed in their own unique ways and yet were absolutely perfect together as a crew. Kirk trying to balance the personal and professional demands of commanding a starship....McCoy and Spock constantly jabbing at one another (the stuff of legends!)...Scotty always trying to protect "his bairns" against whatever danger the Enterprise faced. Scotty and McCoy were always the most emotional of all the TOS characters, but that's what makes them interesting and relatable. Harder for me to see the flaws in Sulu and Chekov, but we rarely if ever saw much in the way of character development with those two. Uhura had a quiet obsession with wanting to be forever young and beautiful.

Being a hardcore TOS fan, I have only watched a few TNG episodes over the years. This is only an observation, but I tend to see the TNG crew as seemingly perfect characters which makes them a tad boring IMO. Would much rather watch the TOS crew in action!

 

[Nerys Myk]

irstly, the characters seemed too perfect; they had it all together and their was no vulnerablities... Yes, there was Spock acting "emotion" by being sarcastic to Dr. McCoy's remarks, but that wasn't the same of what happened in the shows that were made later. Uhura, Chekov, Sulu, and Scotty seemed like they didn't have any problems...

I'll have to agree with the others. The TOS characters were anything but perfect. Facing their imperfections was an on going theme. They gave in to their impulses, made bad calls, and second guessed themselves.
What exactly gives you the impression they were perfect? Can't be the actual show.
As for the secondary characters, They weren't given much development so flaws might be harder to find. Still Scotty loves his drink. Chekov is a bit impulsive.

 

[Steve Gennarelli]

There's a very interesting interview with Robert Butler, director of "The Cage", who addresses this very point. You can view it over at www.emmytvlegends.org
The interviewer asked him if he could have ever imagined the phenomenon "Star Trek" would become when he directed the pilot all those years ago. Butler was dumbfounded. He did not understand for the life of him why "Star Trek" became so big. His issue with the show was that everyone was so square jawed, aye Captain, and there were no faults with any of the characters.
From other interviews with members of the creative team behind the show, they acknowledged that Roddenberry believed in a future where men and women would get beyond the pettiness and jealousy that we see today and the people would be less selfish because it would no longer be a society where the almighty buck played such an important role.
To add my two cents, Kirk's character is not perfect. He's a passionate man. He wants love, sex and women, but he has a responsibility to a ship with 400 crewmembers on it and that's his first priority. So Kirk is trying to remain steady while his passions pull at him. Spock is always aware of his human half and trying to keep it sealed and to portray himself as a Starfleet officer and a proud Vulcan...but he is torn as well. McCoy is someone who probably would rather be earthbound in a private practice, but he knows Kirk needs him and he takes pleasure in keeping Spock in line, despite the stress of being beamed around too frequently.
Whether they are perfect or imperfect, each of them played very important roles in making "Star Trek" the legend that it remains over 50 years after it premiered.

 

[Kor]

To me, the TOS characters are just the right balance. They are far from perfect. As Kirk said in A Taste of Armageddon, "We can admit that we're killers, but we're not going to kill today." The instinct is there, but they work hard to be better than that. And that's something that we can all relate to and aspire to. They're basically real people rather than the sanctimonious automatons of TNG.

On the other hand, the TOS characters are not the angst-y, petty, oversensitive, sniveling, whining, passive-aggressive, entitled, backstabbing sociopaths of contemporary television programs that make me want to throw a rock at the TV.

Kor

 

[KeepOnTrekking]

To me, the TOS characters are just the right balance. They are far from perfect. As Kirk said in A Taste of Armageddon, "We can admit that we're killers, but we're not going to kill today." The instinct is there, but they work hard to be better than that. And that's something that we can all relate to and aspire to. They're basically real people rather than the sanctimonious automatons of TNG.

On the other hand, the TOS characters are not the angst-y, petty, oversensitive, sniveling, whining, passive-aggressive, entitled, backstabbing sociopaths of contemporary television programs that make me want to throw a rock at the TV.

Kor

Angst-y is the perfect term for today's television characters that rub me the wrong way after a few seasons!! A character gets this idea stuck in their head (that always seems to come out of nowhere to me) and takes a self-righteous stand...and then agonizes over it for half the season. It was Clark Kent on Smallville, Oliver Queen on Arrow, Barry Allen on The Flash, and both Sam and Dean on Supernatural. I struggled through 10 seasons of Smallville. I gave up on both Arrow and Flash after 3 seasons and 2 seasons respectively. I'm trying to see Supernatural through to the end but I must confess it's getting easier to miss episodes and not care. I also see it in nuSpock in the nu-movies. Give me the old-fashioned characters of Star Trek TOS and DS9 any day of the week!!

 

[Pauln6]

The worst example is the 100. Almost all the characters oscillate on a scale between merely selfish and scarily sociopathic, sometimes during the same plot arc. I much prefer the more subtle flaws indicated by a lingering look and a bead of sweat. I think Sulu and Uhura were portrayed with fewer flaws because there was a conscious effort to portray positive role models but they both have rather wry senses of humour that bubble up while they're on duty.

I watched a recent detective show called Unforgotten which was masterful in conveying character flaws through body language, intonation, and misdirected dialogue. One character in particular gradually shuts down emotionally as the series progresses until she is in a Vulcan-like state. Nevertheless, the sound of her inner child screaming behind her dead eyes is deafening. Less can be more.

 

[Desert Kris]

No, I don't see them as perfect. I certainly don't see them as sociopathic, as one poster suggests.

Kirk seems to have problems with long term relationships. He's full of self doubt. He strikes me as impulsive and gets himself into trouble just as much as he gets himself out of it. He really seems to like being the face of Starfleet on the frontier, making big decisions, and seems not to work well with people who have authority over him (although, those who outrank him are terrible at what they do, so often). He micromanages and pushes his people quite far to get things done.

Spock strikes me as indecisive a bit, which is why he is fine with serving as an advisor to the Captain. While in command, he sometimes seems too deliberate in getting to a breaking point (he was letting Matt Decker give out enough rope to hang himself for example for way too long before yanking). He's terrible with emotional control, and it takes him way too long to figure out how he's causing himself problems in this regard. Bread and Circuses, one of the episodes that became a surprise favorite for me, has this interesting scene that suggests that Spock conceals a near suicidal depression, and Spock does not refute it. Great scene, and an interesting idea...yet terribly bleak. He allowed his childhood bullies to get to him, and after they were gone he carried on demonizing his human half on their behalf long after they were gone. Then he goes and tries Kohlinar, which was his biggest failure for starting it in the first place. That was the moment where he maximized is inability to understand himself and carried the demonizing of his human half to it's ultimate, logic endpoint. Thank heavens he finally stopped running away from himself, finally.

McCoy embraces emotion too much, as an overreaction to Spock. Sometimes this makes him a bit of a drama...er...queen. He also seems insensitive, to me anyway. Particularly with Spock.

Spock and McCoy fight, and sometimes it's funny. Yet, sometimes it's not. "Are they enemies, Captain?" "I don't think they know." They know, they just really do take it too far sometimes and forget themselves.

Uhura seems a bit too prone to hysterics in extreme situations. Yes, it's a 60's show. But still

Chekov is that co-worker that you have (I've had one like him). He has that thing that he's always doing. He says it every time he walks into the room, and smiles at how clever he think the joke is for the 1,000th time, believing that everyone else thinks it's funny, too. Over and over again...

Scotty and his thing with the Enterprise, well it's cute. But it's also a little problematic how fixated he seems sometimes. And he lies his face off on his repair estimates, to make himself look good to the higher ups. Miracle worker indeed.

I say all this in good humor, without passing judgement. I still very much like them all, and the chemistry between them

 

[plynch]

You nailed that Chekov-guy analogy.

 

[BoredShipCapt'n]

You nailed that Chekov-guy analogy.

Steeeeeeeeve. Steve-oooooooooooo. Makin' copies. The Stevenator. Steeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeve.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Spoooooooock. Spock-oooooooooooo. Checkin' the sensors. The Spockinator. Spoooooooooooooooock.

FTFY.

 

[diankra]

They are supposed to be the best of the best. Sulu and Uhura may well have had personal issues, but aside from occasional outside influences (Day of the Dove got rerun on Friday here, Sulu is the one who always held it together, even with a sword in his hand), they never let them show while on duty.
Kirk gave his senior officers a bit more leeway. And Chekov, who seems to have been viewed as a multi-talented protegee by Kirk, Spock and Scotty.

 

[Sybok Was Wrong]

The "Big 3" were very flawed. But they tried to be noble and good. I like that.

The rest were just "regular people" & not truly developed enough to explore.

 

[CrazyMatt]

I think one of the attractions to the main three characters was their realism... none were perfect but they could all be called heroic. Mostly, they were easy to believe as being realistic characterizations. Buttressing the design of the characters was that they were all superbly cast--Shatner, Nimoy and Kelley were all perfect fits.

 

[Nyotarules]

TOS were far from perfect and only seemed so of cos the limitations of what was shown
Uhura - 'Captain I'm scared', what you join Starfleet where you supposed to expect the unexpected and you tell your commanding officer that! Uhura in the Mirror universe had more backone
Chekov - Son of Putin, with his ultra Russianisms ok it was for comedic effect but it stopped being funny after the second time
Scotty - had issues with women, McCoy said so, made more love to the engines than a real female
Sulu - he got out from under Kirk's shadow - smartest man in the team!
McCoy - IMO he comes across as bigoted, and I love the character but something about his southern accent and his racist comments to Spock does not sit right with me. Try acting like McCoy in the workplace today and see what happens. Tell them 'its just banter' at the industrial tribunal.
Spock - inherited the hypocritical tendencies of his father trying to be more Vulcan than the Vulcans...nuff said
Kirk - an ego the size of the alpha quadrant. 'I want my ship back!'
Probably explains why none of them barr Sulu had a positive, mature, emotionally, stable romantic relationship. Either that or they were screwing each other!
And this is what makes a great team, their flaws.
Who wants righteous and patroninsing 'How dare you not want to join the Federation' attitude of the 24th century.

 

[Kor]

I certainly don't see them as sociopathic, as one poster suggests.

No, that was in reference to contemporary television characters, not TOS.

Kor