Let's see...for starters it tastes like sweaty gym socks.
The Melting Pot
- Thread starter iBender
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Let's see...for starters it tastes like sweaty gym socks.
I can't speak for the rest of my country, but for London, you got this soo wrong. America looks whitebread compared to here
. -- I mean that. -- And that fact of the matter is, the UK isn't France or Germany or Italy, we do have stuff in common, but you cannot put us in the same boat, when reffering to what Obama was talking about.
I think you missed the point.I can't speak for the rest of my country, but for London, you got this soo wrong. America looks whitebread compared to here
I'm sure you missed the point.
Freedom and Democracy started in England in the year 1215 with the creation of the Magna Carter in London. -- Obama quoted Churchill when he said that that document, recieved it's highest praise in 1776 'or around then' with the Bill of Rights. -- If I'm to understand his speech to Parliment this week. That 'very different slant' you reffer to in the birth of the US, were based on those vaules set in stone way back in Westminister in 1215.
That's not the point iguana was making. The UK and other European countries are indeed rather diverse and are growing more so as time goes on. And that's definetely true of France and Germany, too, by the way.
The point is, though, that while US national identity is very much founded on a set of ideals, just as Obama said, the same doesn't really hold true for the UK and the rest of Europe. Yes, the Western World shares some common values but European national identities don't hinge on these but on a common culture in the vaguest sense of the term and a common history. That's why multiculturalism is such a challenge to these countries' national identities, or at least seen as such. But cultures have always been changing so I think we'll manage.
However, I think you will find very few Britons who would associate being British with certain ideals the same way most Americans do.
The point is, though, that while US national identity is very much founded on a set of ideals, just as Obama said, the same doesn't really hold true for the UK and the rest of Europe. Yes, the Western World shares some common values but European national identities don't hinge on these but on a common culture in the vaguest sense of the term and a common history. That's why multiculturalism is such a challenge to these countries' national identities, or at least seen as such. But cultures have always been changing so I think we'll manage.
However, I think you will find very few Britons who would associate being British with certain ideals the same way most Americans do.
I guess Obama was speaking words of wismical poetry to the houses or parliment which, won over soo many hearts... But, I guess, being British is a lot of things to a lot of people. In Australia, I know of one girl I know, with British Ancestry but born in Melbourne, who is still intitled to a British Passport 'for some reason' -- In Jamaica, you can have either a Jamaican or British Passport too -- Or so I was told.
I do think, but don't know, that if you was to recieve one of these British Passports, that that'll be a Black Passport, much like the Passports here before we converted to the EU Red Passport (Because Australia and Jamaica isn't in the EU.) -- Obama has routes in Kenya, which was British, so, he must have a very different, and more educated (He's the US President let's not forget) view of what he was talking about, maybe talking about Britain, and the wider picture, and what he see's in the UK today.
I like the way how we learn, but I hate the stuff needed to learn it.
USA - Slave trade/racial segragation - All practised by law, all abolished and made America the student which corrects it's self.
UK - Ireland - The Empire from here to there - much like Germany and Italy learned of their past mistakes, we all have lessons in our history, which makes for the age we live in, all bright and wonderful and hopeful for the future. -- Makes us like the student; who corrects it's self too. I can safely say, that here in London, we have vaules that are different to those in the rest of Europe, even though human rights and freedom aren't just found in the UK or America, the idea of being black white cuban or asian and being of the same nation is; More or less anyway.
Look at France, breaching the Human Rights of that camp set up by Asylum Seekers and deporting them... -- For example... Such a move in the UK would be unheard of, in government.
I do think, but don't know, that if you was to recieve one of these British Passports, that that'll be a Black Passport, much like the Passports here before we converted to the EU Red Passport (Because Australia and Jamaica isn't in the EU.) -- Obama has routes in Kenya, which was British, so, he must have a very different, and more educated (He's the US President let's not forget) view of what he was talking about, maybe talking about Britain, and the wider picture, and what he see's in the UK today.
I like the way how we learn, but I hate the stuff needed to learn it.
USA - Slave trade/racial segragation - All practised by law, all abolished and made America the student which corrects it's self.
UK - Ireland - The Empire from here to there - much like Germany and Italy learned of their past mistakes, we all have lessons in our history, which makes for the age we live in, all bright and wonderful and hopeful for the future. -- Makes us like the student; who corrects it's self too. I can safely say, that here in London, we have vaules that are different to those in the rest of Europe, even though human rights and freedom aren't just found in the UK or America, the idea of being black white cuban or asian and being of the same nation is; More or less anyway.
Look at France, breaching the Human Rights of that camp set up by Asylum Seekers and deporting them... -- For example... Such a move in the UK would be unheard of, in government.
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Beside the fact that the Magna Carta was signed in Surrey and not in London, if you want to dig further I am pretty sure "freedom and democracy" as we understand it were established for the first time in Ancient Greece. But even then, you can't copyright "freedom and democracy" to your country. It has always been an ongoing process, with tides going back and forward in different places and different historical periods.
The slight slant I give the US ("very different?" please don't change my words) is the fact that those concepts were inherent to their institutions from the start, instead of being the result of accumulated tradition as in other places.
Many countries grant citizenship to those who have ancestors of that nationality. Details and limitations vary from country to country. As your friend had British ancestors (probably not very distant) she could get British citizenship. She would definetely have the same passort as you and the same rights and privileges (though sometimes, voting right can be restricted if you haven't live in the country for a while or ever, but I don't know what the law is in the UK.)
Jamaica is a Commonwealth nation so I assume emigrating to the UK would be easier for Jamaicans than for non-Commonwealth and non-EU foreigners. It's a sovereign, independent nation, though, so Jamaicans wouldn't automatically be British citizens, too.
What that has to do with the what we were discussing is a mystery to me.
Yes, sure, Obama meant what he said as a compliment, no doubt about it. I just tend to think the statement was 100% correct.
^ I'm in Surrey, London's in Surrey/Middlesex/Kent and Essex... but anyway, so what? Surrey's in the UK.
The fact of the matter is, the UK and US enjoy an essential relationship, I don't know why that makes me sleep better at night, but it does.
He reffered to the Parliment at Westminister as 'the Mother of all Parliments' - to be honest, before his speech this week, I thought the Magna Carter was Roman or Greek, so what a joy to learn; What is was, and where it was.... I loved Obama's language too.
He said that it was the English who did that on this island.
When ever I heard anyone talk about the UK being an island on the Continent has always been in the negative.
Those were Sinti and Roma, not necessarily asylum seekers. And France didn't break any human rights by deporting them. They probably didn't even break European Law because even as an EU citizen (which those people were) you have to fulfill certain requirements if you want to live longer in another EU country, e.g. health insurance and sufficient funds, which they didn't have. Yes, it was a technicality and I do think we need to find a solution that allows the Roma and Sinti to follow their traditional migratory lifestyle without getting into legal trouble. And I also thought this action was rather fishy but let's stick to the facts.
I'm also pretty sure the UK regularly deports foreigners without a legal immigration status.
That's HARDILY a melting pot move though... Justified or not.
We deport failed asylum seekers, and also, France, banning Muslim women for expressing their religion, in effect, telling the French what they can and can't do becuase it isn't French, again, is something soo un-British. They argue it's a sign of opression, so BY LAW, they force them to show their face... - That doesn't make sense to me, so maybe Obama was right, being British and not getting stuff like that, goes hand in hand.
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All countries have requirements regarding who can live there, even Melting Pot countries like the USA and Australia. It doesn't mean you have to accept anyone.
It's also easy to cast judgement sitting on an island that's not even part of the Schengen treaty and thus has a much easier job of controlling the influx of people.
On mainland Europe there are no borders from the Portugese coast in the West to the Polish-Ukrainian-Belarussian-Russian border in the East and from Sicily in the South to Denmark in the North. In my opinion, that's one of the greatest achievements of the European Union but it also has its problems. Sometimes, some countries feel left alone with their problems, e.g. all the countries on the Mediterranean who face mass migration from North Africa and the Middle East every year while other countries in Central Europe profit from not having to use up their ressources because less and less asylum seekers make it to their countries. There have been some initiatives to spread the burden more evenly but it's not yet very balanced, I think. I personally would like to see the EU moving away from being the 'Fortress Europe' it is today and be more accepting of non-EU immigration but that doesn't seem very likely in the near future.
It's also easy to cast judgement sitting on an island that's not even part of the Schengen treaty and thus has a much easier job of controlling the influx of people.
On mainland Europe there are no borders from the Portugese coast in the West to the Polish-Ukrainian-Belarussian-Russian border in the East and from Sicily in the South to Denmark in the North. In my opinion, that's one of the greatest achievements of the European Union but it also has its problems. Sometimes, some countries feel left alone with their problems, e.g. all the countries on the Mediterranean who face mass migration from North Africa and the Middle East every year while other countries in Central Europe profit from not having to use up their ressources because less and less asylum seekers make it to their countries. There have been some initiatives to spread the burden more evenly but it's not yet very balanced, I think. I personally would like to see the EU moving away from being the 'Fortress Europe' it is today and be more accepting of non-EU immigration but that doesn't seem very likely in the near future.
You know what's very British? The Queen. The Church of England. Not having a written Constitution. Good luck getting your American friends to agree with that.
You are picking and mixing stuff to justify your feelings, but it's clear your are quite confused on the matter and going from emotions instead of rational arguments.
Which is ok, I guess, but it doesn't make for good debate.
You are picking and mixing stuff to justify your feelings, but it's clear your are quite confused on the matter and going from emotions instead of rational arguments.
Which is ok, I guess, but it doesn't make for good debate.
The Queen is a figure head and for 100s of years, we've elected people.
We aren't perfect, but we ain't bad neither.
London, where I'm from, is much like NYC. - It's a world city.
But all around the UK, I see faces from all around the world, but London, we just different. hehe (I dunno, I'm from London, so all I really know is London.) I have Traveled, but, that was just to the United States, 2 major cities and 4 US States.
We aren't perfect, but we ain't bad neither.
London, where I'm from, is much like NYC. - It's a world city.
But all around the UK, I see faces from all around the world, but London, we just different.
hehe (I dunno, I'm from London, so all I really know is London.) I have Traveled, but, that was just to the United States, 2 major cities and 4 US States.
I wouldn't call Australia a melting pot...
Maybe, MAYBE, in the past 5 years, but, no.
Australia has one of the highest immigration rates in the Western world, right up there with Canada.
Yes, I agree, Cananda is much like Australia, although, Canada has less racism. - Canada is a melting pot, Australia is, I guess, but very VERY recently so.
Actually, I take that back, Australia isn't like Canada. - although if they were, then I can see why the UK would wish to tie itself to the the US more.
The Caribbean is a melting pot, and Australia are equal to Canada and Jamaica 'because of the Queen'... even if people admit that or not. If anything, Jamaica has done more for the UK than Australia and Cananda though. -- They're just not a G8 nation.
Actually, I take that back, Australia isn't like Canada. - although if they were, then I can see why the UK would wish to tie itself to the the US more.
The Caribbean is a melting pot, and Australia are equal to Canada and Jamaica 'because of the Queen'... even if people admit that or not. If anything, Jamaica has done more for the UK than Australia and Cananda though. -- They're just not a G8 nation.
^ Well, as I said earlier in the thread, Canada very specifically rejected the idea of the melting pot, when we embraced multiculturalism as an official policy under Trudeau in the 70s. New citizens have to swear an oath to the Queen, learn the language, all that sort of thing, but we don't have the same push for assimilation.
^I know, Salad Bowls are good, but, London isn't one, so, I can't relate.
I do like Canada and Australia, I just thought it rude when Canadians I've met from Winnipeg; in the past, tried to play favourtites, when really, we respect those who have taught us, like USA and India... We love you, but we can't respect you, but we still love you, as nations, fore you are our children and we have sworn to protect you becuase you help us (GBR) in our times of need, we love Canada and Australia and Jamaica ect (we will forever be greatful for that)... but we Respect America (and love them too.) -- And yes, if Canada is a Salad Bowl, which isn't too bad I guess, then GBR is a Melting Pot.
I do like Canada and Australia, I just thought it rude when Canadians I've met from Winnipeg; in the past, tried to play favourtites, when really, we respect those who have taught us, like USA and India... We love you, but we can't respect you, but we still love you, as nations, fore you are our children and we have sworn to protect you becuase you help us (GBR) in our times of need, we love Canada and Australia and Jamaica ect (we will forever be greatful for that)... but we Respect America (and love them too.) -- And yes, if Canada is a Salad Bowl, which isn't too bad I guess, then GBR is a Melting Pot.
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