Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 1x10 - "A Quality of Mercy"

[Mudd]

What they're doing and the way they're doing it is fine. It's obvious that they've watched TOS closely. They're making different choices, and they're good ones.

The TOS people knew all about Khan, BTW. They all had opinions of him as an historical figure. It's in the episode.

The confusion comes because the writer made a storytelling choice that doesn't hold up, which was to make the characters slow to ID their passenger as the famous tyrant. The writer offers a fig leaf of "historical records are spotty," hanging a lantern on what he must have known was an inconsistency.

The short version: TOS did it wrong, so it's sensible to ignore it.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Wow so if we say screw continuity who exactly will be mad?
What a bad thing he cheats the vision he was given?
Not like they haven't done that before on Trek and gotten away with it.

Fantastic show and I hope it goes on and on but why can't they go a different path?

 

[Tallguy]

Wow so if we say screw continuity who exactly will be mad?
What a bad thing he cheats the vision he was given?
Not like they haven't done that before on Trek and gotten away with it.

Fantastic show and I hope it goes on and on but why can't they go a different path?

That way lies JJ.

 

[Mudd]

Star Trek canon is a hopelessly confused, contrived mess. Prioritizing it over good ideas is a waste.

I like it when they use old continuity and work things into it. But I don't care when they choose not to.

 

[Tallguy]

Star Trek canon is a hopelessly confused, contrived mess. Prioritizing it over good ideas is a waste.

What is there that is convoluted? I'm not saying nothing is, but it's certainly not the tangled mess that people say it is. Especially when you're only dealing with TOS and a little DISCO (maybe ENT).

My boy and I watched Season 2 of Discovery recently. We got to the final episode and there is the big flyby with the Enterprise with a large bite taken out of it. ("That's why I'm selling it. It's got a large bite out of it.") With no prompting from me he pointed and said "The scorch!"

There's a difference between saying "I want to do this thing, and I don't care that continuity says otherwise" and "Ohhhh, but there's so much! I just can't!"

In Generations they knew that there was a line in Relics that indicated Scotty assumed Kirk was still alive when Scott went into the transporter. But they wanted to have Scotty in the movie. So they made a choice. They never said "Dude, there were seven years of Next Generation to go through! How could we have known?"

Again, having just seen Disco S2, I'm now worried that they will try to "do" something so that Chapel doesn't know who T'Pring is. And various things like that. Oy.

 

[Mudd]

Especially when you're only dealing with TOS and a little DISCO (maybe ENT).

No one does. And you left out "contrived."

At least SNW is willing to throw out away anachronisms like the 1990s "Eugenics wars." That's a good start.

 

[jackoverfull]

At least SNW is willing to throw out away anachronisms like the 1990s "Eugenics wars." That's a good start

is it? Didn’t they indirectly reference it several times, in the first episode and given who their chief of security is?

 

[Mudd]

is it? Didn’t they indirectly reference it several times, in the first episode and given who their chief of security is?

Pike's speech in the first episode identifies the Eugenics War with World War III and places it in our current future:

We called it the Second Civil War, then the Eugenics War, and finally just World War III. This was our last day. The day the world we knew ceased to exist.

 

[Tallguy]

is it? Didn’t they indirectly reference it several times, in the first episode and given who their chief of security is?

They threw out the 1990's part of it. It apparently starts because of political unrest over elections in the United States, which leads to the Eugenics Wars (???) and then WWIII.

I'm glad that's not contrived.

 

[Mudd]

It eliminates a lot of fan foolishness in the attempt to explain how the E.W. happened without us noticing.

And, of course, one big reason for all that nonsensical rationalization (which eventually even has involved chatter about alternate timelines) occurs because people take canon too seriously.

The same way that writers' attempts to assuage fan anxiety about the inconsistency in Klingon designs let to the contrivance about the Augment virus.

Let it all go, people. You're making everything worse.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Definitely not about a healing machine that transfers life energy.

Nor about a hot beverage brewed from the fur of an arboreal, eucalyptivorous marsupial in an obscure outpost in the Australian outback (where they know what tea strainers are, but don't use them on this particular brew).

Spoiler: if you haven't heard that one before

You look like someone who'd be up on his Shakespeare.
Shakespeare? What does Shakespeare have to do with choking on a mouthful of hair?!?
The Merchant of Venice. Portia's most famous line: The koala-tea of Mercy is not strained!

I'd already been spoiled about what happens at the end of the episode, back when I was only one or two episodes into the season. And I got re-spoiled when I saw the longest of the DVD special features.

But it wasn't until after Old Pike gave Young Pike the time crystal that I understood why on Earth they would include "Balance of Terror" as a special feature on the DVD set. And even then, it took me a moment to recognize the significance of Pike officiating at a wedding.

So. "Balance of Terror," revisited. But I will note (and I'm guessing I'm not the first one to point it out) that Kirk was already in command of the Enterprise, and Pike had already been promoted to Fleet Captain, when the accident happened.

At any rate, a very powerful episode. Then again, BT was among the best of TOS.

Uhura's first name "Nyota" came out of TrekLit. (Prior to that, there was fanfic curculating that gave it as "Penda."

The whole concept of Pike's then-unnamed first officer being Illyrian, as I recall (and I don't recall the details), originated in either TrekLit or fanfic.

 

[Mudd]

So. "Balance of Terror," revisited. But I will note (and I'm guessing I'm not the first one to point it out) that Kirk was already in command of the Enterprise, and Pike had already been promoted to Fleet Captain, when the accident happened.

Pike didn't change history at the time of the accident. He did things much earlier, like warning the cadets away. Presumably some of what he did differently prevented him from leaving the Enterprise or he chose not to.

 

[Tuskin38]

The whole concept of Pike's then-unnamed first officer being Illyrian, as I recall (and I don't recall the details), originated in either TrekLit or fanfic.

The 1989 D.C. Fontana novel 'Spock's World'. Though it used a slightly different spelling of Illyrian.

So. "Balance of Terror," revisited. But I will note (and I'm guessing I'm not the first one to point it out) that Kirk was already in command of the Enterprise, and Pike had already been promoted to Fleet Captain, when the accident happened.

Yes, but the point of divergence was Pike warning them all years before the accident.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Uh, Spock's World was Diane Duane's masterpiece of worldbuilding and political intrigue; I've lost count of the number of times I've re-read it.

You mean Vulcan's Glory. Which I haven't cracked in at least a decade or two.

 

[Dukhat]

I love old Trek novel authors like Diane Duane and John M. Ford. Back when there was no such thing as debates about ‘canon,’ they were doing some serious Trek worldbuilding in their books. Which was then completely ignored when TNG was produced.

 

[Ovation]

John M. Ford’s The Final Reflection remains, by far, the most interesting portrayal of Klingon culture in all of Trek. Should have been the blueprint of all future productions.

 

[Tuskin38]

Uh, Spock's World was Diane Duane's masterpiece of worldbuilding and political intrigue; I've lost count of the number of times I've re-read it.

You mean Vulcan's Glory. Which I haven't cracked in at least a decade or two.

Fuck, I did notice I had the wrong title and author before I posted, and I corrected myself on the author, but forgot to change the book name

Yes I meant Vulcan's Glory.

John M. Ford’s The Final Reflection remains, by far, the most interesting portrayal of Klingon culture in all of Trek. Should have been the blueprint of all future productions.

Discovery used a couple concepts from The Final Reflection in S1 (like the Black Fleet), and some of the Klingon actors said they read the book.

 

[Noname Given]

I love old Trek novel authors like Diane Duane and John M. Ford. Back when there was no such thing as debates about ‘canon,’ they were doing some serious Trek worldbuilding in their books. Which was then completely ignored when TNG was produced.

There were plenty of debates about canon in those days. What wasn't debated was the fact that everyone knew Star Trek books were not canon so there was no need to worry about what was in them.

 

[Paul Weaver]

I love old Trek novel authors like Diane Duane and John M. Ford. Back when there was no such thing as debates about ‘canon,’ they were doing some serious Trek worldbuilding in their books. Which was then completely ignored when TNG was produced.

President Bacco would like a word

 

[DaveyNY]

Paramount+ has posted this full episode on YouTube ...

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