Spoilers Star Trek: Prodigy 2x20 - "Ouroboros, Part 2"

[Mr J]

I still think it's because of the cancellation and people had to see it. It created an unintentioonal illusion of scarcity.


It was already made. They didn't even license it.

On the first point - or maybe it just did pretty well? Why try to run that down with some conspiracy theory about "false demand"? Guessing you just didn't like it and therefore can't accept it may have performed decently on its own merits?

Second point - are Nick airing it? Is there somewhere you can point me towards saying they aren't airing it? It may well be that they had to wait due to Netflix having the streaming rights.

 

[fireproof78]

On the first point - or maybe it just did pretty well? Why try to run that down with some conspiracy theory about "false demand"? Guessing you just didn't like it and therefore can't accept it may have performed decently on its own merits?

No.

You don't know my mind so please do not assume I didn't like it.

Second point - are Nick airing it? Is there somewhere you can point me towards saying they aren't airing it? It may well be that they had to wait due to Netflix having the streaming rights.

That, I do not know. They were originally airing it and then they were not and did not pick up the rights to continue forward with licensing to show it. It was being shopped around, with some people convinced it was going to be cancelled for a tax write off.

 

[Nyotarules]

I just watched both seasons of Prodigy this week. I loved it however a bit confused, since they 'fixed' the timeline why does Gwynn still exist? And why should the synth attack close down the Academy?

 

[Nyotarules]

This suggests to me that the writers never really fully thought out the the scope of UFP and SF's own space operations.

The writers of Trek have always been poor world builders. the 'we are closing down our school for future officers because we are no longer exploring but defending', is an absolutely stupid concept since officers can retire or die in combat and whole ships can be destroyed.

An entire Federation world was destroyed. That's like saying, "We can get back to evacuating North Korea after South Dakota is destroyed by terrorists."

Which is to say, it's not an issue that they couldn't finish the evacuation, it's the fact that there's suddenly far more important priorities.

The vastness of the UFP should be able to do both. Under an UE system if South Dakota was destroyed by terrorists the rest of the planet's issues would not need to grind to a halt to assist the Dakota survivors, not with a planet with almost 200 nation states and billions of inhabitants.
After the 9/11 attack on New York City the rest of the USA and the world, still continued to function.

If you look out the window of Beverly’s office, She’s in London, somewhere along the Thames as you can see the Shard and The Gherkin

Shame they survived World War 3 lol

 

[AnimationAdmiral]

Can anyone confirm if this bluray set works in North America?

Star Trek: Prodigy: Season 1 Blu-Ray Collection [2023] [Region A & B & C] https://a.co/d/gCCt3C4

It's the international release but the description says it's Regions A, B and C. I want to get Prodigy S1 on bluray and I'm considering getting this instead of getting the NA release which split season one into 2 parts. Getting this also less expensive that getting the 2 NA S1 sets

The writers of Trek have always been poor world builders. the 'we are closing down our school for future officers because we are no longer exploring but defending', is an absolutely stupid concept since officers can retire or die in combat and whole ships can be destroyed.

The vastness of the UFP should be able to do both. Under an UE system if South Dakota was destroyed by terrorists the rest of the planet's issues would not need to grind to a halt to assist the Dakota survivors, not with a planet with almost 200 nation states and billions of inhabitants.
After the 9/11 attack on New York City the rest of the USA and the world, still continued to function.

Shame they survived World War 3 lol

Jankom Pog explicitly says they are going to re-open the schools in that very scene, it was just a temporary closure. I don’t know what you all are talking about.

On top of that, the series ends with the creation of a training ship program which will generate new officers.

 

[Tallguy]

Loved the show. Hated the ending. (I don't need Picard's dystopian Starfleet.)

And every time they played the "kinda Voyager theme" I started either singing how the music should have gone or shouting "pay the Goldsmith estate their damn money!"

Wil Wheaton made an amazing Librarian. (i.e. The American Doctor Who.)

 

[Deks]

I just watched both seasons of Prodigy this week. I loved it however a bit confused, since they 'fixed' the timeline why does Gwynn still exist? And why should the synth attack close down the Academy?

Gwyn is an equivalent to future Admiral Janeway from VOY Endgame. That timeline in which Solum had a F.C. with a Prometheus class ship had to happen so it would interact with the Prime Timeline.

As we know, alternate futures can continue to exist as they are - but some are completely overwritten in turn... it seems like it largely depends on the method used to Time Travel, or its completely dependent on the laws governing Trek universe - some timelines are overwritten, others remain intact.

It could also be that certain 'probable futures' (like the one in which VOY took 26 years to get back home) just continue to exist and are effectively part of the multiverse as a whole.

We've seen in ST:Picard S2 that the Confederation was created due to a single change... even though for all intents and purposes it shouldn't really exist.

So, when the events in the Prime Timeline occurred as they did with the Stargazer being destroyed, the 'heroes' got pushed into the alternate Confederation timeline and from there they jumped back to the past to change the sequence of events which created it so they can create the Prime Timeline and Jurati Borg (because it was the Queen from the Confederation timeline that merged with Jurati).

Its a pre-destination paradox of sorts, but one in which alternate timelines exist and affect the primary one.

 

[Tuskin38]

. (I don't need Picard's dystopian Starfleet.)

Good thing it isn't dystopian then.

 

[Sumire]

My personal (not very well thought out) theory is that changes only ripple forward in time, not back (in this particular instance — not in all Trek instances and certainly not in all sci-fi time travel instances, in all honesty, time travel works the way the narrative needs it to work).

So, since the Diviner travelled back to the past in pursuit of the Protostar (whether with or without Chakotay and Adreek on board), as long as none of the parts needed (the “big dominos”) were missing at the time they came into play, everything that happened prior to Season 2 happened as we saw it happen. So Gwyn was still created and there was still an enslaved populace mining in an attempt to locate the Protostar, etc.

 

[Tallguy]

Good thing it isn't dystopian then.

Underfunded non-exploratory. Hey, Starfleet IS a military (what else are they doing?) and they don't have enough MONEY.

 

[fireproof78]

Underfunded non-exploratory. Hey, Starfleet IS a military (what else are they doing?) and they don't have enough MONEY.

Still not dystopian.

 

[Tuskin38]

Underfunded non-exploratory. Hey, Starfleet IS a military (what else are they doing?) and they don't have enough MONEY.

Nothing you described fits the definition of dystopian

 

[Tallguy]

Nothing you described fits the definition of dystopian

OK, really crappy society where the basic tenants of the organization (both Starfleet and the Federation) are breaking down?

For every (lengthy) discussion we've had on here of if Starfleet is a military both sides of the argument have had to concede that Starfleet has a dual role of defense and exploration. And Picard and now Prodigy has envisioned the time when Starfleet has literally abandoned one of those roles.

And one of the reasons for this? Scarcity of resources. What was the line about they don't have enough combadges?

It's not drinking water from a bootprint while your telekentic dog figures out what to do next, but it's not the shining, optimistic future of Star Trek. Which is what Sir Patrick was going for. (edit: To NOT be the shining optimistic future of Star Trek.)

 

[Tuskin38]

but it's not the shining, optimistic future of Star Trek.

We didn't see the life of the average federation citizen, except maybe Dahj if you can consider it average before everything goes to shit.

Raffi was purposely was living away from people (even then she still has a comfortable life if we go by the concept art for the interior of her home), Picard was on his Vinyard.

 

[Tallguy]

We didn't see the life of the average federation citizen, except maybe Dahj if you can consider it average before everything goes to shit.

Raffi was purposely was living away from people (even then she still has a comfortable life if we go by the concept art for the interior of her home), Picard was on his Vinyard.

I'm anti Utopian in general, I don't think TOS ever purported to be Utopian, and even I thought Starfleet Elegy Rafi lost the plot of Star Trek.

 

[Wouter]

My personal (not very well thought out) theory is that changes only ripple forward in time, not back (in this particular instance — not in all Trek instances and certainly not in all sci-fi time travel instances, in all honesty, time travel works the way the narrative needs it to work).

So, since the Diviner travelled back to the past in pursuit of the Protostar (whether with or without Chakotay and Adreek on board), as long as none of the parts needed (the “big dominos”) were missing at the time they came into play, everything that happened prior to Season 2 happened as we saw it happen. So Gwyn was still created and there was still an enslaved populace mining in an attempt to locate the Protostar, etc.

It's actually well thought out. Changes go forward, not back.

Gwyn was created, before season 1 and "again" during season 2 (when the Diviner was explicitly shown to go back in time from the destroyed, future Solum - once again), by the Diviner travelling backwards in time through the timey-wimey wormhole. Both times, the Divinir created Tars Lamora and Gwyn and thus changed his past. The second time, they had to make sure the Protostar would end up at Tars Lamora before the Diviner arrived though, otherwise he would have no reason to go there (I suppose he followed its warp trail or something like that, having had the luck of exiting the wormhole close in space and time to the Protostar's own exit).

Note that the Diviner created an alternative timeline with his actions. In the original one, which we could call the "prime timeline" were it not that the Prodigy characters aren't actually following it, Solum was totally wrecked by civil war and no Gwyn exists. In the changed timeline, he created Tars Lamora and everything on it, creating a branch timeline where he had a shot at preventing Solum's destruction. He eventually succeeded in that, through his "progeny" and also partly due to other changes he made (like getting the Protogies together and in close contact with admiral Janeway), though not in the way he had planned originally (by using the weapon onboard the Protostar).

When the Protogies "fixed" the timeline in the end, it was the timeline that the Diviner had created before and during S1 that got fixed, by putting its missing piece (the Protostar deeply embedded in Tars Lamora) back in place. Nobody, not even (old) Ascencia, wants to go back to the original timeline that had Solum getting destroyed, Gwyn not existing and the other Protogies likely never meeting each other.

 

[Charles Phipps]

The vastness of the UFP should be able to do both. Under an UE system if South Dakota was destroyed by terrorists the rest of the planet's issues would not need to grind to a halt to assist the Dakota survivors, not with a planet with almost 200 nation states and billions of inhabitants.
After the 9/11 attack on New York City the rest of the USA and the world, still continued to function.

Star Trek doesn't take the idea of vast fleets. The Dominion War arguably was too large a version of the Federation but there's only a handful of superpowerful ships not like Star Wars where space is commonly treaded.

 

[fireproof78]

but it's not the shining, optimistic future of Star Trek. Which is what Sir Patrick was going for. (edit: To NOT be the shining optimistic future of Star Trek.)

Can't imagine why there are some limits to Starfleet. Not like there were major setbacks or a war or three.

Yup, it's a mystery, clearly dystopian.

 

[Tallguy]

Can't imagine why there are some limits to Starfleet. Not like there were major setbacks or a war or three.

I think there is a lot of wiggle room between "We have additional limits because of current events" and "We are discontinuing the exploratory responsibilities of Starfleet." Oh, and "We only have com badges for 50 percent of our staff."

 

[fireproof78]

I think there is a lot of wiggle room between "We have additional limits because of current events" and "We are discontinuing the exploratory responsibilities of Starfleet." Oh, and "We only have com badges for 50 percent of our staff."

Sure, of course there is, but it's still not dystopian or even anti-utopian/anti-Trek.

It's consequences.

Also, TUC talked about dismantling the fleet, so perhaps officers are prone to exaggeration.