Spoilers Star Trek: Lower Decks 4x01 - "Twovix"

[ussrowe]

Actually, that was just Freeman's opinion. Janeway is still Admiral, and this episode proves that the Tuvix incident is known and has not been classified. This means that, for the courts, Team Janeway is right.

Plus the episode ends with the crew doing the same thing to the conglomerate entity. If it's a homicide, it's a justified one.

In fact if it's murder, then a bunch of characters were murdered making all the Tuvixs, then accidentally murdered making the big meatball which was then intentionally murdered to bring the crew back.

The only technically reused title is "Anomaly" as far as I know.

There's an episode "First Contact" and a movie "First Contact" if that counts.

 

[cooleddie74]

There's also the movie NEM and the VOY episode "Nemesis." And neither are all that good.

 

[Oddish]

Actually, that was just Freeman's opinion. Janeway is still Admiral, and this episode proves that the Tuvix incident is known and has not been classified. This means that, for the courts, Team Janeway is right.

It might just be that the courts acquitted Janeway because there was no law at the time protecting a being like Tuvix. If he had lived long enough to appear before a Federation tribunal and appeal for his life, he probably would have won. Separating him after that would likely have been considered murder.

In fact if it's murder, then a bunch of characters were murdered making all the Tuvixs, then accidentally murdered making the big meatball which was then intentionally murdered to bring the crew back.

The meatball was specifically declared to be non-sentient. Ergo, deconstructing it into its component beings was not murder.

A neat way to dodge the original episode's conflict.

There's also the movie NEM and the VOY episode "Nemesis." And neither are all that good.

And "First Contact". Used twice, just like "Nemesis". Only both "First Contact" efforts were pretty good.

 

[Farscape One]

There's also the movie NEM and the VOY episode "Nemesis." And neither are all that good.

I actually liked "NEMESIS" from VOYAGER.

Great message about propaganda and how we see things. And clever use of similar words for most things.

 

[Uhura's Song]

Thinking about the original "Tuvix" moral dilemma.

I dunno, if we get the technology to eventually resurrect someone and it required someone else to die, then it gets thornier with the idea Neelix and Tuvok aren't there anymore. The ethical dilemma is not that they're not there anymore but they CAN be saved in the same way someone trapped in a pattern buffer or something would be.

I'm inclined to view this episode very differently from other show watchers, though, as I think the ethical dilemma here isn't nearly as unprecedented or weird as people make it out to be. I think that TOS and DS9 (more than TNG) made it clear that it is BASIC expectation of a Starfleet officer that you have to make questionably ethical life and death choices all the time.

Kobatashi Maru, anyone?

One of the earliest tests to see if Wesley Crusher had the stones (or whatever the nongendered version of it is in the 24th century) was whether or not he could leave a man to die to save someone else. VOY and ENT tried to softpedal this sort of thing (at least until ENT Season 3) but part of the reason Redshirts exist is because sometimes you have to send someone to die. Deana Troi did it to get her promotion.

To save two of her crew, Janeway had to let a random alien die. It's terrible but it's something I expect every Starfleet officer to do in this situation unless there's a greater good involved like the Prime Directive.

So I'm of the mind Captain Freeman would have straight up murdered him if she had to but sought a better option. I doubt she'd have found one, though.

Amen. I am no VOY superfan. I put it and ENT at a lower level than TOS/TNG/DS9. But Janeway 100% did the right thing there. Just like Archer does with the Trip clone.

 

[Oddish]

Amen. I am no VOY superfan. I put it and ENT at a lower level than TOS/TNG/DS9. But Janeway 100% did the right thing there. Just like Archer does with the Trip clone.

The Trip clone was just ridiculous. Our memories do not travel in our genetic code.

I still maintain that if the Tuvix incident had occured in Federation territory, and Tuvix's right to live went before a tribunal, they would probably have sided with him.

As for Voyager... well, its sloppiness was annoying. But it had a great cast, and a lot of pretty good episodes.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I really enjoyed this one!
The spaceship that destroyed the Klingons, have we seen this before in ST or any other sc-fi Tv/movie? it looked so familiar..

I got the impression it looked a little like the organic-looking vessels in VOY: "Night", but those looked "grown", while this one has hull seams and looks "built". Similar long vertical front face, though, with seemingly random window placements.

 

[Darth Thanos]

I still maintain that if the Tuvix incident had occured in Federation territory, and Tuvix's right to live went before a tribunal, they would probably have sided with him.

Even if it happened there, it would be at least controversial. The tribunal would have to hear Tuvix's pleas, right, but also the one of T'Pel, who would want her husband back.

And for the record, the game Star Trek Timelines (set during a crisis in time, with all characters from all eras available in the same context) made such a trial, in the "Janeway was..." event. In-story, the events regarding the original Tuvix were classified, but when an alternate Tuvix shows up, everything comes to public light. But don't bother to ask about the result of the trial. "Sorry to cut you out of the verdict after all you've done for us, Captain, but the Federation is concerned that making this decision public could cause chaos throughout the galaxy."

 

[Farscape One]

Even if it happened there, it would be at least controversial. The tribunal would have to hear Tuvix's pleas, right, but also the one of T'Pel, who would want her husband back.

AND their 4 children.

 

[Oddish]

AND their 4 children.

I'm not saying the decision wouldn't be difficult, even heartbreaking. But I'm fairly sure that they would feel that they had no choice but to allow Tuvix to live.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The Trip clone was just ridiculous. Our memories do not travel in our genetic code.

In Star Trek that barely qualifies as “ridiculous”. Rigorous adherence to science isn’t really a feature.

 

[Oddish]

In Star Trek that barely qualifies as “ridiculous”. Rigorous adherence to science isn’t really a feature.

Still ridiculous, though. Stops just shy of "outrageous", not even close to "ludicrous", let alone "utterly insane".

 

[fireproof78]

In Star Trek that barely qualifies as “ridiculous”. Rigorous adherence to science isn’t really a feature.

Excuse me.

My ESP abilities determine that to be BS...

 

[Nerys Myk]

Still ridiculous, though. Stops just shy of "outrageous", not even close to "ludicrous", let alone "utterly insane".

So, you’re saying it’s Star Trek?

 

[ToddCam]

For the films, I consider their titles the full titles: Star Trek First Contact and Star Trek Nemesis.

Others with similar names (but not identical):
"Where No Man Has Gone Before" (TOS) and "Where No One Has Gone Before" (TNG)
"Wink of an Eye" (TOS) and "Blink of an Eye" (VGR)
"Beyond the Farthest Star" (TAS) and "Far Beyond the Stars" (DS9)
"The Survivor" (TAS) and "The Survivors" (TNG)
"We'll Always Have Paris" (TNG) and "We'll Always Have Tom Paris" (LDs)
"The Emissary" (TNG) and "Emissary" (DS9)
"Brothers" (TNG) and "Brother" (DSC)
"First Contact" (TNG) and "First Con-Tact" (PGY) and "First First Contact" (LDs)
"Past Prologue" (DS9) and "What's Past Is Prologue" (DSC)
"Sanctuary" (DS9) and "The Sanctuary" (DSC)
"The Homecoming" (DS9) and "Coming Home" (DSC)
"The Muse" (DS9) and "Muse" (VGR)
"Demon" (VGR) and "Demons" (ENT)
"Strange New World" (ENT) and "Strange New Worlds" (SNW)
"Bounty" (ENT) and "The Bounty" (PCD)
"Daedalus" (ENT) and "Project Daedalus" (DSC)
"Kobayashi Maru" (DSC) and "Kobayashi" (PGY)

I only listed confusable titles. I also bolded the two titles that are homophonic.

 

[cooleddie74]

"Who Mourns for Adonais?(TOS)" and "Who Mourns for Morn(DS9)."

 

[Crewman6]

I still maintain that if the Tuvix incident had occured in Federation territory, and Tuvix's right to live went before a tribunal, they would probably have sided with him.

100%.

 

[ToddCam]

"Who Mourns for Adonais?(TOS)" and "Who Mourns for Morn(DS9)."

I did think of those, but I decided to leave them out because I couldn't see anyone confusing the two. But yes, they are just one word off.

Also:
"The Eye of the Beholder" (TAS) and "Eye of the Beholder" (TNG)

Another one word difference:
"Profit and Loss" (DS9) and "Profit and Lace" (DS9)

 

[Darth Thanos]

AND their 4 children.

They are minors. There's no need to go through all this, especially as their mother and legal guardian would already be in the trial and state the point for all of them.

And there's yet another testimony to be heard: that of Janeway herself. She did what she did because the lives of two of her crewmen were on the line. One of them, her longest and most esteemed friend. If any of you think she would simply walk away and let Tuvok's fate be decided by a bunch of obscure bureaucrats without giving a fight, you have been watching the wrong series. And if things go south, she always has a weapon more powerful than a hundred photon torpedos: her death glare.

 

[fireproof78]

They are minors.

I believe Tuvok raised them then returned to the service. They are not minors, and their voices should be heard regardless.

And if things go south, she always has a weapon more powerful than a hundred photon torpedos: her death glare.

If I can't convince you with my words I'll silence you with my laser vision.

Somewhere, SF DEBRIS is laughing.