Well, another underworld temp check then...
Spoilers Star Trek: Lower Decks 2x08 - "I, Excretus"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Do NOT insult Lower Decks that way. Lower Decks is far cleverer, better written, funnier and much more entertaining than the Outrageous Okona.
I'm completely serious. The Outrageous Okona is a 46-minute brain fart of nothingness and misery.
It's only redeeming quality is that Okona's actor is handsome.
It's only redeeming quality is that Okona's actor is handsome.
Nothing redeems that episode. It's an anti-comedy.
Haven’t seen it yet but based on images and reports… So there’s a test scenario where the crew see their fellow personnel naked and engaged in intercourse.
Does the personnel give consent to the use of their physical images like that? This is way beyond kissing Holo-Brahms.
Does the personnel give consent to the use of their physical images like that? This is way beyond kissing Holo-Brahms.
Well, Starfleet is clearly authorized to use your likeness in normal training scenarios for other crew. This particular scenario is may or may not be an authorized use based on information given later in the episode, without getting into spoilers.
My first 10 this season!
So much to love:
The surgeon asking for any type of poison, noting time of life instead of death
T'Ana standing in the transporter bay all day in case anyone needed to be transported (reference to the O'Brien cartoon)
Boimsy beat the Borg queen in chess, brings up hay fever and acid reflux to prevent assimilation
Some of the holo programs are episode titles, some sound like fun (whale rescue, teleportation death tag, extreme engineering)
The Terran Earth is as in TOS, DS9 and ENT, not mirrored as in Disco
Mirror Boims has a very incomplete beard and shrieks like the guy at the end of the Body Snatchers remake
Borg interiors use the TNG design (including incubation chambers), only darker like in FC; drone shields are a combination of TNG and FC as well
The bar orgy doors say "sinner repent"
Some skinny blue guy kisses a guy, Jennifer kisses a Trill girl, Billups just works on his PADD
Naked T'Ana and Boimsy spreading his legs is something I never ever expected to see
Dom Stevens beats his sub Ransom with a Horga'hn
It seems that cake, popcorn, baguette, full pizza, clams, steak, and pesto are reserved for senior officers
The crystalline entity looks amazing!
The black hole could be the one from the intro, and it has an effect that is similar to the TMP wormhole and the Disco time vortex
Nitpicks:
The Excelsior in the simulation has diagonal, straight pylons, instead of the right-angled ones
Since the drills are public, the nude crew can be seen by everyone as well - and no one cares XD
Borg voices were lame, not collective enough
Odd that the simulated 24th century Empire still uses TOS-like uniforms and 23rd century agonizers, but I guess SF didn't have anything else to build their simulation on
WoK uniforms have the FC badge
One of the runabout consoles is upside down
So much to love:
The surgeon asking for any type of poison, noting time of life instead of death
T'Ana standing in the transporter bay all day in case anyone needed to be transported (reference to the O'Brien cartoon)
Boimsy beat the Borg queen in chess, brings up hay fever and acid reflux to prevent assimilation
Some of the holo programs are episode titles, some sound like fun (whale rescue, teleportation death tag, extreme engineering)
The Terran Earth is as in TOS, DS9 and ENT, not mirrored as in Disco
Mirror Boims has a very incomplete beard and shrieks like the guy at the end of the Body Snatchers remake
Borg interiors use the TNG design (including incubation chambers), only darker like in FC; drone shields are a combination of TNG and FC as well
The bar orgy doors say "sinner repent"
Some skinny blue guy kisses a guy, Jennifer kisses a Trill girl, Billups just works on his PADD
Naked T'Ana and Boimsy spreading his legs is something I never ever expected to see
Dom Stevens beats his sub Ransom with a Horga'hn
It seems that cake, popcorn, baguette, full pizza, clams, steak, and pesto are reserved for senior officers
The crystalline entity looks amazing!
The black hole could be the one from the intro, and it has an effect that is similar to the TMP wormhole and the Disco time vortex
Nitpicks:
The Excelsior in the simulation has diagonal, straight pylons, instead of the right-angled ones
Since the drills are public, the nude crew can be seen by everyone as well - and no one cares XD
Borg voices were lame, not collective enough
Odd that the simulated 24th century Empire still uses TOS-like uniforms and 23rd century agonizers, but I guess SF didn't have anything else to build their simulation on
WoK uniforms have the FC badge
One of the runabout consoles is upside down
Maybe they just wanted to go for the "Those Old Scientists" look.
Sure. I really thought it was particularly the beginning and end where the tone was all wrong.
That last line from Boimler was hideously jarring. We are now 31 years in on Borg assimilation being Trek's storytelling stand-in for rape. After that much equating of this sci-fi trauma to those real-world horrors, I'm just not able to process a victim tearfully saying "they took everything that I was", while getting laughed at by his entire community, as anything other than ugly and upsetting.
That being said, as much as I thought the joke as presented was a disgusting failure, I also think it's a joke that's pretty close to working. Rewrite the line so that it's no longer word-for-word something a real-life rape victim could say, or get a take from Quaid that isn't as authentically pained, or the last line goes to Shaxs and then a thousand-yard-stare Boimler reaction shot, or something. The tone control on this show is generally quite masterful (one reason the few failures seem as big as they do). I'm reminded of other times when Boimler has been victimized and it has been hilarious -- like the pilot when the giant spider creature is having it's way with him for awhile. They have nailed the tone in this area many times, but invoking this much real violation here totally ruined it for me.
The episode setup was similar -- the implications of a death in space far too agonizing and far too explicitly invoked, and the cause of the mishap too petty and small.
It didn't help that I had already seen the opening scene in the trailer awhile back, and I was certain the actual show would have a clever reveal to explain the Cerritos warping off and seemingly abandoning the Lower Deckers. I assumed it would be something like the fantastic Division 14 story from "Much Ado About Boimler", where the whole arc initially presents as harsh, nightmarish torture -- that then cleverly inverts at the end to reveal it was really just a bunch of miscommunications. So maybe this time the Cerritos was warping off because it was hijacked, and now the Lower Deckers must save the day, or whatever -- SOME reveal that would protect the characters from seeming criminally incompetent, indifferent to life, etc.
So yeah, this episode began and ended on extremely sour notes for me. It's interesting to see how many others have said it's their series high point, when for me it was a CLEAR series low, by a mile. And I give almost every LD episode a 10 and stand by it!
"I, Excretus" is only the 2nd Lower Decks story to just outright fail for me -- the other being Ensign Fletcher in season 1, but the B/C stories in that ep were fantastic, making this my first overall failed LD episode.
I'll have to give it another watch and see if my view changes. Or if "I, Excretus" ends up on my discard pile with "Threshold", "Profit & Lace", "Code Of Honor", "Masks"...
Last edited:
Why would anyone care?
Brad did seem to not want to show up naked in the pilot episode, and so his spreading his legs for optimal crotch view might also make him uncomfortable.
There've been other moments in the franchise where, if in general no one cares about nudity, there are some definite hold outs. The Betazoid nude wedding tradition has been notable many times and treated as if it were risque. Q mentions having to wear clothes as an outdated morality in "Deja Q".
And even if it wasn't just the nudity, these were simulations doing actual sex acts. I wondered if Boimler actually had an erection under that censor bar. There was a Vulcan ensign with his pale butt out having sex with two women. Vulcans "do not discuss it" when talking about pon farr (though maybe it's the out-of-control aspect that makes it taboo to discuss). Either way, it doesn't seem cut-and-dry.
There've been other moments in the franchise where, if in general no one cares about nudity, there are some definite hold outs. The Betazoid nude wedding tradition has been notable many times and treated as if it were risque. Q mentions having to wear clothes as an outdated morality in "Deja Q".
And even if it wasn't just the nudity, these were simulations doing actual sex acts. I wondered if Boimler actually had an erection under that censor bar. There was a Vulcan ensign with his pale butt out having sex with two women. Vulcans "do not discuss it" when talking about pon farr (though maybe it's the out-of-control aspect that makes it taboo to discuss). Either way, it doesn't seem cut-and-dry.
It's really obvious how anyone would feel about their most private parts being shown in a sexual context to all their colleagues. Everyone can watch replays of it. Simulation or not, your own body being featured 'fully functional with multiple techniques' will be extremely embarrassing and a severe violation of privacy. Just imagine it happening to anyone you know. People were upset about being used in romantic, seductive form in TNG already, this obviously, obviously, goes far beyond that. (Sometimes I really wonder why things need further explanation XD)
Because it's not cut and dry. Some people are not embarrassed by it, while others may object and still others might not care because it is a simulation and therefor not them. As someone who believes strongly in casual nudity and no shame in the naked human form I would fall in the later category if it was used with my permission.
Mileage will vary.
Because attitudes towards nudity are extremely varied now in human cultures around the Earth. Why would I assume that one instance indicates a general preference across an interstellar organization? That's a huge amount of assuming, my friend.
Last edited:
I suspect the Drill Instructor might have some legal gray area regarding depicting crew engaged in sexual activity/nudity as “orgy and murder inducing virus” is an actual legitimate medical threat you have to be prepared to deal with. The fact Mariner wasn’t able to put aside her visceral reaction to seeing her crew members debased that way actually would be a potential issue in a crisis but part of her problem was that she absolutely treated the drills like a holodeck game rather than the actual situation they were supposed to be.
Which was, “Ugh, gross” and not, “Oh my God, I have to help my fellow crew.”
You surrender certain rights like privacy when you join an organization and here, yes, there is historical precedent that you might be drugged and horribly violated via consent via magic space virus so it's good to be prepared for that sort of thing rather than embarrassed. Mind you, the original episode(s) did their best to make it clear an orgy was going on as much as they could in Network TV.
Which was, “Ugh, gross” and not, “Oh my God, I have to help my fellow crew.”
You surrender certain rights like privacy when you join an organization and here, yes, there is historical precedent that you might be drugged and horribly violated via consent via magic space virus so it's good to be prepared for that sort of thing rather than embarrassed. Mind you, the original episode(s) did their best to make it clear an orgy was going on as much as they could in Network TV.
Well, it's official. The good episodes in this show are mere anomalies, the bulk of the show is just consistently bad or utterly boring.
This episode, while not awful, falls into the later camp. A few mildly entertaining bits (mostly Boimler's Borg simulation) and a lot of dead space. The Trainer character wasn't remotely interest or funny or compelling as a villain. Just a total waste.
Mariner and Freeman's "solution" at the end completely lacked cleverness or jeopardy and didn't remotely feel like the proper comeuppance to the trainer character. It was just a total whiff.
I'll give this episode a little credit, provided the show doesn't hit the reset button on it. I did like that FINALLY we get some real growth in the relationships between the two halves of the crew. That aspect of the episode was actually handled very nicely.
I think this show would be well-suited to continue in that direction, as the "Lower Decks vs. Senior Staff" business was getting really old. Especially since Mariner and Freeman were the only people who were really playing at all.
Hopefully the show will find some new beats to play going forward. But, given their track record, I'm not really that optimistic, especially considering this season is almost over and we've had to legitimately good episodes out of eight. Sigh.
This episode, while not awful, falls into the later camp. A few mildly entertaining bits (mostly Boimler's Borg simulation) and a lot of dead space. The Trainer character wasn't remotely interest or funny or compelling as a villain. Just a total waste.
Mariner and Freeman's "solution" at the end completely lacked cleverness or jeopardy and didn't remotely feel like the proper comeuppance to the trainer character. It was just a total whiff.
I'll give this episode a little credit, provided the show doesn't hit the reset button on it. I did like that FINALLY we get some real growth in the relationships between the two halves of the crew. That aspect of the episode was actually handled very nicely.
I think this show would be well-suited to continue in that direction, as the "Lower Decks vs. Senior Staff" business was getting really old. Especially since Mariner and Freeman were the only people who were really playing at all.
Hopefully the show will find some new beats to play going forward. But, given their track record, I'm not really that optimistic, especially considering this season is almost over and we've had to legitimately good episodes out of eight. Sigh.
What's the benefit of the rest of the crew getting to watch recordings of it?
How clear did the Barclay and Brahms episodes make it that even fully clothed non-sexual holos are problematic?
One instance does not define an entire culture.
An 8.
- Loved all the Easter eggs here. Also GLAD they went with the classic TOS S1- "The Naked Time" and NOT the utterly horrible/forgettable TNG S1 - "The Naked Now" update.
- And Mariner proves she's a child of the Berman TNG era because when presented with nudity, she folds.
- Also got a nice laugh of all the RIDICULOUS things Boimler had to do to get 100% on the Borg scenario.
- I also like that they brought back another alien race first seen in/on TAS.
- Loved all the Easter eggs here. Also GLAD they went with the classic TOS S1- "The Naked Time" and NOT the utterly horrible/forgettable TNG S1 - "The Naked Now" update.
- And Mariner proves she's a child of the Berman TNG era because when presented with nudity, she folds.
- Also got a nice laugh of all the RIDICULOUS things Boimler had to do to get 100% on the Borg scenario.
- I also like that they brought back another alien race first seen in/on TAS.
Similar threads
- Poll
- Poll
- Poll
- Poll