I don't understand why people are even questioning whether or not he was the (or a) GoF. The newspaper is a HUGE signal. Subtlety isn't an issue here.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x09 - "Terra Firma, Part 1"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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I don't understand why people are even questioning whether or not he was the (or a) GoF. The newspaper is a HUGE signal. Subtlety isn't an issue here.
This was a really well crafted story. Unfortunately, I was not eager to revisit Discovery's version of the mirror universe.
Some thoughts before I check out the comments:
Some thoughts before I check out the comments:
- Yeoh is a really good actor, and I think the episode was greatly improved by relying on her.
- The "guardian" figure--whatever we are calling him--was a decent device that did not outlast its welcome. I'm not completely concerned about learning who he is.
- Having the cast portray evil versions of themselves isn't entirely successful. I don't think all the actors, especially those that play the bridge crew, have the talent to create a characterization that connected back to their prime universe characters. They simply played evil. Killy is an exception.
- I was disappointed in mirror Burnham. SMG, whom I greatly admire as an actor, didn't give any nuance.
- Conversely, Yeoh did seem like a character that was more thoughtful, pursuing an interest in power, but separating out the sadism. Perhaps I am overreading, but she seems to be effectively manipulating everyone, including mirror Saru.
- I'm becoming less a fan of the Saru walk-and-talks. He works better in the captain's chair or behind his desk when it comes to more personal conversations.
He was lying. There was no reason to be up in arms about the potential reuse of the Guardian of Forever.
Since when do people who hate the show need a reason? He heard "Guardian of Forever", jumped to a conclusion, then went off the wall. Seems pretty cut-and-dried.
It's been his and others' MO for years.
I don't really know what RMB said, nor do I care, but I would have thought killing Stamets and altering the timeline of the Mirror Universe (And therefore ours as well) would have been a much bigger deal than reusing the Guardian of Forever. I mean that thing has only appeared in 2 episodes of the entire franchise. It's not really that big of a deal in the long run. Now altering the timelines of both universes (Or creating a new alternate timeline) does have repurcussions which I find interesting. Hell, this episode actually sold me for the first time on a possible section 31 series. Now I think Section 31 is overused, but this was the first episode where I really did appreciate Yeoh as Empress Giorgeou and I'm excited what she might bring to that possible series. I guess all I needed to be convinced was for Yeoh to carry an episode and she did that greatly here.
Fair enough. But any reprise of Guradian of Forever, in any guise (which isn't entirely confirmed, despite the newspaper), does not justify the level of fury that Burnett suggested. It's basically an extension of the resentment that Discovery would do anything with Star Trek lore.
BTW, if this is or is like the Guardian of Forever, will the timeline change in a way that Burnham, on the planet, will detect? Will she be forced into the portal in order to correct her timeline because of what Georgiou's interference has done?
Or maybe he's from the Q continuum. they could demote Picard to Harry Kim's level without changing anything else! I mean even Kim will probably be more than Lt Junior grade by the time he's sixty!!!
i on the other hand was, i really like disco take of the mu
Not sure yet what I really think about this episode. I'll have to wait until part II to fully form my opinion.
But I do have a few concerns thus far:
But I do have a few concerns thus far:
- The Mirror Universe again... sheesh. I really wish Trek would give this trope-cum-cliche up. But since I'm a human mess of contradictions, I enjoy bits of those scenes. I like the Reyes-Owo fight because it was symbolic of the larger conflict between Georgiou and Burnham. Vance's comment to Saru about crew loyalty and letting a crewmember drown also foreshadows Georgiou's plight.
- Disco is getting too meta and self-referential to Trek and it's annoying. This week, "Prime Universe"... I'm surprised they didn't use Kelvin Universe when talking about Yor! Last week, it was the damn captain's catchphrase. I no longer feel these are people inhabiting a universe as much as characters on the stage. This stuff works better on Lower Decks because it's comedic in tone, but not on Disco whose tone is much more dramatic.
- If the door and Carl are the Guardian of Forever or another one then why is the show obfuscating it in some cheesy Q-continuum avatar? Although seeing the Star Dispatch is neat, as are all the hidden easter eggs in the paper. Also why not just use the original Guardian, and build the donut, if that's what the show wanted to do. (Also still don't give a damn what RMB said or will say on this episode. He can go suck it.)
- Also if it is the Guardian... then say so because it'd make the stakes clearer. Well, the stakes other than Georgiou's health. Is what she's experiencing in the Mirror Universe real? Can she alter the events of her own past? Or is this in her mind? In City, we were clear to the stakes and what could happen. Carl is too... um... mystic. Has he been taking lessons from a Vorlon? Is he a Vorlon?
- Seeing the early TNG uniform... despite the many inaccuracies (like the yoke piping and the absence of department piping on the pants cuff).
- Papa Stamets being concerned over Adria.
- The scenes between Georgiou and Burnham, both in the Prime and Mirror universe. SMG is such a charming and amazing actress... you see she relishes her moments as the Mirror Burnham.
- The Shakespearean nature of the Mirror Universe scenes.
I don't. Everyone is cartoonishly evil (Mirror Georgiou is an extreme waste of Michelle Yeoh's talent in my opinion, I wonder how often she's broken into laughter trying to say her lines). The Mirror universe isn't even realistic. It was fine when it was confined to 1 TOS episode and a few DS9 episodes that weren't key to the main storyline. Probably the Mirror's spotlight was that fine Enterprise duology. But it needed to remain on the fringes, a monster of the week story. Discovery brought the Mirror absurdity front and center into their series.
The extreme amount of backstabbing in the Mirror universe means that it's unbelievable that anything actually gets done. Even Palpatine's Empire over at that other Star franchise was more believable. And George Lucas recognized early on how ineffective an entire organization of people backstabbing each other to get to the top would be. That's why he limited that to 2 Sith Lords only, with the rest of the Empire just following their orders.
Stray thoughts, can be mostly ignored:
- I am frustrated that this is not something I can just binge. The last two episodes were good, no complaints on story or acting, but they are frustrating because they have not advanced the plot enough IMO. I don't feel like waiting a week to find out what the hell happens with Georgiou or more interestingly (to me) where is the Burn stuff going.
- Vance doesn't want Discovery in the battle with the Emerald Chain, I think that is why he was so quick to send Saru off to save the Terran Emperor (like of all people?). Maybe I watch CNN too much, but I think there is something not quite right about Starfleet and the Federation, and I don't think Vance wants team Discovery there to see what all goes on until their indoctrination is complete.
- I think someone pointed out there is a new split in the Terran timeline with Georgiou going back in time to her own universe and changing things in this episode. I think that may have changed the past for Discovery given it visited there in the first season. And that change may have caused a divergent timeline which resulted in Discovery encountering the Sphere, but not the red angel stuff and the solution to the Control/Sphere data problem was to dump Discovery in the nebula where Calypso happened. I think that more or less may make sense, sort of.
- So they are going to find an alt Discovery maybe and maybe that has something to do with the Burn? I guess? Which brings me back to my first thought which is - I should be bingeing this and not watching it week-to-week.
The depressing thing is I will not have any self control and I will be up at 6:30 am next week turning on All Access to find out what happens next. Curses!
- I am frustrated that this is not something I can just binge. The last two episodes were good, no complaints on story or acting, but they are frustrating because they have not advanced the plot enough IMO. I don't feel like waiting a week to find out what the hell happens with Georgiou or more interestingly (to me) where is the Burn stuff going.
- Vance doesn't want Discovery in the battle with the Emerald Chain, I think that is why he was so quick to send Saru off to save the Terran Emperor (like of all people?). Maybe I watch CNN too much, but I think there is something not quite right about Starfleet and the Federation, and I don't think Vance wants team Discovery there to see what all goes on until their indoctrination is complete.
- I think someone pointed out there is a new split in the Terran timeline with Georgiou going back in time to her own universe and changing things in this episode. I think that may have changed the past for Discovery given it visited there in the first season. And that change may have caused a divergent timeline which resulted in Discovery encountering the Sphere, but not the red angel stuff and the solution to the Control/Sphere data problem was to dump Discovery in the nebula where Calypso happened. I think that more or less may make sense, sort of.
- So they are going to find an alt Discovery maybe and maybe that has something to do with the Burn? I guess? Which brings me back to my first thought which is - I should be bingeing this and not watching it week-to-week.
The depressing thing is I will not have any self control and I will be up at 6:30 am next week turning on All Access to find out what happens next. Curses!
Yup. No need to take it seriously. They have become the Mirror universe of Trek fans in their hatred
I love it. It's one of the more interesting extensions of a simple concept in TOS. You don't have mutual trust but mutual hate, constant fear and desire to overcome your shipmates to manage your own power. Everything is out of mutual self-interest, and not actual cooperation. So incredibly fascinating with how to explore humanity.
Thank you, Kurtzman!
I think that this might be the tension that Georgiou introduces in her return to the mirror universe: although ambitious, she's more pragmatic, perhaps offering a more sustainable power strategy.
ETA: What would happen if Georgiou is able to maintain power until the events of Mirror, Mirror?
In that case, why not go all hog on this and say that the door is a TARDIS?
Because that costs a ton of money?
That was kinda my point.
Effing perfect!Yup. No need to take it seriously. They have become the Mirror universe of Trek fans in their hatred
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