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Similitude

Infern0

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
Just watched this episode for the first time, as I am going through all of enterprise. Great stuff, I know it was similar to Tuvix but seriously I thought this was far better.

When sim was stroking Porthos, then got called to his death, almost too much to take

Great episode, emotional stuff.
 
My favorite ENT episode! I have Connor's and Manny Coto's (he wrote it) autographs on a script of Similitude. It's one of Connor's favorite episode of ENT. Bawl my eyes out when Sim tells Phlox he was a good dad.
 
My favorite ENT episode! I have Connor's and Manny Coto's (he wrote it) autographs on a script of Similitude. It's one of Connor's favorite episode of ENT. Bawl my eyes out when Sim tells Phlox he was a good dad.

I hate to admit this, but I was holding back tears, such a powerful story i think.
 
Yeah, it really is pure Trek. Roddenberry liked to set morality plays against the backdrop of sci fi. This was a great example of that.
 
I know it was similar to Tuvix but seriously I thought
:wtf: OK, I do see some similar moral issues... BUT please, for the love of Q, don't ever again compare one of the franchises biggest embarrassments (Tuvix, naturally), to one of it's finest moments... It breaks my fragile little ticker. ;)
 
I only saw it once when I watched the show on its first run, but I remember not thinking much of it. I did not see what was so immoral about it, I was wishing Archer would hurry up and kill Sim since it was obvious that was what he was going to do.

Perhaps I'm jaded.
 
Similtude is one of my favorite Enterprise shows.One of the best of the entire series.
 
I thought it was good, but think it's overrated here. I think I would've liked it better if it had done something unexpected, like keep Sim, but allow Trip to die.
 
I only saw it once when I watched the show on its first run, but I remember not thinking much of it. I did not see what was so immoral about it, I was wishing Archer would hurry up and kill Sim since it was obvious that was what he was going to do.

Perhaps I'm jaded.

Well, it considers the morality of creating people just to kill them and use them for "spare parts". If you ask me, it is easily the best "morality play" episode of ENT, though I wish there had been more of Trip's reaction. Something like that would surely have had a profound effect on him.
 
I especially liked the twist - that Sim was not going to recover from the surgery and live out his 5 days, along with the chance that he might let him live a full life span. One thing ENT did so well was set up the no-win situation and not provide an easy answer.
 
I especially liked the twist - that Sim was not going to recover from the surgery and live out his 5 days...
Me, too. I see the setup differently than a lot of folks...there is no initial plan by Phlox and Archer to "kill" or "murder" Sim, but to let him live out his full lifespan (of 2 weeks). When we see Phlox caring for the child, nurturing him, educating him, letting him take apart medical equipment :) ...I came away with the impression that Sim's surrogate father would give him the best life possible. And it was poignant for me to see Archer spending time with young Sim, but having such mixed feelings about getting close to him, with the possibility of losing Trip already weighing heavily. Archer's physical deterioration over the course of the episode was a very effective way, IMHO, of showing how his decisions regarding Sim were tearing him apart.

I agree with you, bluedana,, that the discovery that Sim won't survive the surgery is a terrific example of Trek's "no-win situation" scenario. We know at this point that someone will die. What made it bearable for me was Sim's nobility toward the end...his decision not to escape the ship, but to stay and save Trip, for the sake of Lizzie and the rest who were lost. The scene between Sim and Archer in the launch bay, as Sim takes the burden off Archer's shoulders, was very touching.

And that scene of Sim with Porthos...it always chokes me up. I assume Archer had something to do with that, which is another indication that the two men have made a kind of peace with each other.

I love this episode. It's right up there with "Observer Effect" and "The Forgotten" as the shows that had the most profound emotional effect on me.
 
I especially liked the twist - that Sim was not going to recover from the surgery and live out his 5 days...
Me, too. I see the setup differently than a lot of folks...there is no initial plan by Phlox and Archer to "kill" or "murder" Sim, but to let him live out his full lifespan (of 2 weeks). When we see Phlox caring for the child, nurturing him, educating him, letting him take apart medical equipment :) ...I came away with the impression that Sim's surrogate father would give him the best life possible. And it was poignant for me to see Archer spending time with young Sim, but having such mixed feelings about getting close to him, with the possibility of losing Trip already weighing heavily. Archer's physical deterioration over the course of the episode was a very effective way, IMHO, of showing how his decisions regarding Sim were tearing him apart.

I agree with you, bluedana,, that the discovery that Sim won't survive the surgery is a terrific example of Trek's "no-win situation" scenario. We know at this point that someone will die. What made it bearable for me was Sim's nobility toward the end...his decision not to escape the ship, but to stay and save Trip, for the sake of Lizzie and the rest who were lost. The scene between Sim and Archer in the launch bay, as Sim takes the burden off Archer's shoulders, was very touching.

I agree that Similitude was one of the strongest morality plays featured on ENT, and that, coupled with Connor Trinneer's superb performance as his clone, combined to make for a superior episode. It is right up there with my favorites.

It gave Phlox the opportunity to give of a glimpse of his parental side (we know he's the parent of a number of children.) It's obvious Phlox genuinely cared for this young boy by the way he nurturing him into adulthood. I can only imagine how difficult it must've been to invest so much of himself in Sim, knowing that he would only live for 2 weeks.

Watching Archer's emotional turmoil, eventually manifesting itself physically, seeing this bright young boy, wise beyond his years and with more than a touch of Trip, grow into a man that would have to die in 2 weeks, was heart wrenching (heck, Sim was a very likable character, and for Season 3, having Archer show range in this direction was refreshing.) It quite obviously tore him up to give the order for Sim to be terminated for Trip, but unquestionably, Trip was #1.

Archer was already dealing with so much to this point in the season, only now coupled with the potential loss of his chief engineer (and friend), that the burden of knowing that should Trip's transplant be unsuccessful, he would lose both his friend, and his friend's clone (by default, in 4-5 (approx) more days.) Very tough to take after everything him and Trip had been through.

Sim's ultimate decision to willinging allow himself to be sacrificed for the sake of Trip, and (agreed, bluedana) take the burden off of Archer, and show really how much of Trip was really inside of him, was strong writing. Archer had made the decision, and would've had to enforce it, but Sim made the self-sacrifice for all involved, knowing it would cost him his remaining days.

Sim carried so much of what made Trip a strong individual and what made him so important to Archer (and the crew) that his ultimate loss was felt initially as much as if it had been Trip who had passed. I know those that interacted with him must've have felt his absence quite profoundly, even if Trip was there to "replace" him.

As an aside, as posited by a previous poster, it would've been an interesting twist if Sim had survived (with Phlox somehow extending his life span) instead of Trip. Not my personal choice, but interesting to think about.
 
As I said, this is an example of why Enterprise is my favourite Trek, Compare thi to Tuvix and........ Well there is no comparrison
 
And there were so many nice touches... they brought back the kid who plays young Trip in "The Xindi" nightmare to play young Sim.

Archer struggles to maintain emotional distance when he and T'Pol pay a visit to sickbay when Sim is a baby. Phlox remarks he hasn't picked a name and Archer says something to the effect "well, you'll think of something" and makes a beeline for the exit. In fact the first time we see Archer even interacting with the kid is when he's about "12."

At the opening of Similitude, Trip's talking about a plan to make it possible for the NX-01 to maintain warp 5 for longer periods and is so distracted he hurts T'Pol during Vulcan neuronookie. He apologizes and says something like when he's talking about engineering he kind of forgets himself. We never hear Trip squawk about Archer making T'Pol first officer. If he's put in charge, Trip does the job and then goes happily back to engineering.

And yet, young Sim remarks to Archer that he wants to be a starship captain.

I thought it was interesting that it's Sim who goes to T'Pol and confesses his feelings for her, admitting that he's not sure whether they are his feelings or Trip's. Is it because he knows how short his time is and doesn't want to waste it harboring attachments instead of "going for it"? Is it because he's so young and inexperienced that he hasn't built the emotional walls so many of us have? Later, after he knows he's going to die with the procedure, he goes to engineering to help out and when T'Pol asks why he's there when he has so little time left, he says the only 2 things he cares about are "here."

I can't picture Trip ever saying something like that.

In fact, the closest I recall Trip ever speaking so openly to T'Pol (where his feelings for her are concerned) is in "Home," after she tells him she's going to marry Koss. For all his cockiness and unabashed directness in general, he's very guarded about his feelings when it comes to women (which, IMO, negates his so-called reputation as a "ladies man.")

Some people have suggested it would have been interesting to let Trip die and find a way to keep Sim.
But one of the things that make this episode for me is the scene in Trip's quarters: Sim argues he has Trip's body, memories and knowledge, "so how is I am not Trip"? But when Archer replies, "I need Trip!" what he's really saying is he wants his friend to live. He never loses sight of the fact that those factors don't make Sim Trip.

The only real beef I have here is that we never learn how Trip felt about what Archer and Phlox did.
 
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In fact, the closest I recall Trip ever speaking so openly to T'Pol (where his feelings for her are concerned) is in "Home," after she tells him she's going to marry Koss. For all his cockiness and unabashed directness in general, he's very guarded about his feelings when it comes to women (which, IMO, negates his so-called reputation as a "ladies man.")

Some people have suggested it would have been interesting to let Trip die and find a way to keep Sim.
But one of the things that make this episode for me is the scene in Trip's quarters: Sim argues he has Trip's body, memories and knowledge, "so how is I am not Trip"? But when Archer replies, "I need Trip!" what he's really saying is he wants his friend to live. He never loses sight of the fact that those factors don't make Sim Trip.

The only real beef I have here is that we never learn how Trip felt about what Archer and Phlox did.

Well said Jinx!
 
I only saw it once when I watched the show on its first run, but I remember not thinking much of it. I did not see what was so immoral about it, I was wishing Archer would hurry up and kill Sim since it was obvious that was what he was going to do.

Perhaps I'm jaded.

Well, it considers the morality of creating people just to kill them and use them for "spare parts". If you ask me, it is easily the best "morality play" episode of ENT, though I wish there had been more of Trip's reaction. Something like that would surely have had a profound effect on him.

I understand the morality play aspect of the episode, I just didn't find it interesting because I knew Sim was going to die and Trip would live. I never considered that to be in doubt for even a second.

The episode lost me at the very beginning. I hate short teasers, I hate them even more if they are used as a frame for a flashback episode. That particular device is overused on TV and particularly on Star Trek. Sometimes it fits in with the concept of the story (The Visitor, Twilight) but there was absolutely no reason for it here as time travel or alternate timelines were not involved. It is just lazy writing.

Secondly, I don't buy the concept that the ship somehow can't get by without Trip. Do you honestly expect me to believe that the other 20 people who work in the engineering department are completely incompetent? They sent this ship on an incredibly dangerous mission knowing that the loss of one man would screw it up? I call that lazy writing too.

I never bought the science that you could clone a perfect replica of a person, but none of the science in Star Trek makes sense so I can let that be. But that nagging feeling that this whole thing is a plot contrivance was impossible to escape for the rest of the episode, so it was difficult for me to feel emotionally attached to Sim.

It was even harder to feel emotionally attached to him when I knew that he was going to die. Like I said earlier, nothing that happened in the episode provided me with any doubt about that. I've seen these sorts of episodes before and I know how they are going to end. I cannot care for Sim since he is a plot device that I know is going to die, so the entire episode falls apart.

Finally, I never liked the Trip/T'Pol relationship so the pay-off at the end was meaningless. I'm sure there are many others who feel differently on this aspect of the show.

On an intellectual level it asked interesting questions, so it gets some marks for that. On an emotional level it failed utterly, at least for me. I could have watched a documentary about the morality of cloning instead, and at least that would have involved real science.

I don't think it was a bad episode, and I definitely commend it for what it was trying to be. This is what Star Trek should be about; asking difficult questions and exploring the limits of what it means to be human. We need more episodes like this and less mindless action. We need more quiet character pieces and fewer high-concept sci-fi episodes.

If you liked this episode then good for you. For me it was just an interesting concept that was poorly handled.
 
I understand the morality play aspect of the episode, I just didn't find it interesting because I knew Sim was going to die and Trip would live. I never considered that to be in doubt for even a second.
Morality plays explore larger issues beyond who is involved.
Actually, it was possible that they might sacrifice Trip. TNG killed off a regular. So did DS9. And this way, they wouldn't have to entirely lose the character.
The episode lost me at the very beginning. I hate short teasers, I hate them even more if they are used as a frame for a flashback episode. That particular device is overused on TV and particularly on Star Trek. Sometimes it fits in with the concept of the story (The Visitor, Twilight) but there was absolutely no reason for it here as time travel or alternate timelines were not involved. It is just lazy writing.
I agree, it was cheesy. Nobody believed that was Trip.
Secondly, I don't buy the concept that the ship somehow can't get by without Trip. Do you honestly expect me to believe that the other 20 people who work in the engineering department are completely incompetent? They sent this ship on an incredibly dangerous mission knowing that the loss of one man would screw it up? I call that lazy writing too.
Well, as I noted above, Archer wanted his friend to live. And if Tucker wasn't the best, he wouldn't have been chief engineer -- no matter what Archer promised him in "First Flight."

I never bought the science that you could clone a perfect replica of a person, but none of the science in Star Trek makes sense so I can let that be. But that nagging feeling that this whole thing is a plot contrivance was impossible to escape for the rest of the episode, so it was difficult for me to feel emotionally attached to Sim.
Trek frequently resorts to fantascience. If I get a good story out of it -- especially one that generates a lot of good discussion -- I'm OK with that.

It was even harder to feel emotionally attached to him when I knew that he was going to die. Like I said earlier, nothing that happened in the episode provided me with any doubt about that. I've seen these sorts of episodes before and I know how they are going to end. I cannot care for Sim since he is a plot device that I know is going to die, so the entire episode falls apart.
Yes, he was going to die. But did you really expect that the ship's doctor, one of the most compassionate characters in all of Trek, who raised this person from infancy, would be the one to murder him?

Finally, I never liked the Trip/T'Pol relationship so the pay-off at the end was meaningless. I'm sure there are many others who feel differently on this aspect of the show.
Well, at least we see the TnT relationship go somewhere after that. Unfortunately, it quickly devolves into juvenile angst...
On an intellectual level it asked interesting questions, so it gets some marks for that. On an emotional level it failed utterly, at least for me. I could have watched a documentary about the morality of cloning instead, and at least that would have involved real science.

I don't think it was a bad episode, and I definitely commend it for what it was trying to be. This is what Star Trek should be about; asking difficult questions and exploring the limits of what it means to be human. We need more episodes like this and less mindless action. We need more quiet character pieces and fewer high-concept sci-fi episodes.
Well, I do think it took an interesting tack in exploring the question of whether it's right to create a life to save another life (in this instance, condemning the donor death -- the lyssarian larva would have lived a long life. Even if the procedure had not killed Sim, he would have been dead in a few days.

If you liked this episode then good for you. For me it was just an interesting concept that was poorly handled.
I'd be curious to know what you might have done differently, had you written the script.
 
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