Similitude

[TheGodBen]

I'd be curious to know what you might have done differently, had you written the script.

Good question, you have me thinking now.

Well first I'd get rid of the teaser, naturally. I might keep the Trip T'Pol romance part of the show, but only if I properly did something with it rather than just throwing it in at the end.

I'd get rid of the whole accelerated growth thing. Sim is automatically an adult, but there is an unexpected twist when he turns out to be sentient. Sim remembers some of the things that Trip remembers but not all.

I'd get rid of any line that suggested that Trip was needed in order to save Earth, the motivations by the rest of the cast have to be entirely selfish. Sim has the ability to live just as long as Trip, none of this "Oh, there's a small chance you can live a full life" rubbish. You have to choose between trading one full life for another, they should not be able to justify it by saying that Sim was only going to live another five days anyway.

Sim doesn't want to die and refuses to let them kill him. He wants to userp Trip's life but nobody on the ship will ever see him as Trip. He realises that the parents he thinks of as his will never accept him as their son so he will never be able to lead the life he wants to lead. Maybe T'Pol rejecting him on this basis convinces him that he should sacrifice himself in order to bring Trip back. Not because it will save the human race, but because he can't justify living his life and letting Trip die if it will upset so many people.

When Trip wakes up and finds out about this he feels guilty and ashamed. Depending on how the story ends he might feel like Archer and Phlox commited a murder he would never have let happen. He sets out at the end to find out everything he can about Sim.

Now please proceed to tell me why my outline sucks.

 

[JiNX-01]

I'd be curious to know what you might have done differently, had you written the script.

Good question, you have me thinking now.

Well first I'd get rid of the teaser, naturally. I might keep the Trip T'Pol romance part of the show, but only if I properly did something with it rather than just throwing it in at the end.

I might keep a teaser opening that suggests something is up with Tucker. But it wouldn't be a funeral because viewers would just know it can't be Trip.

I'd get rid of the whole accelerated growth thing. Sim is automatically an adult, but there is an unexpected twist when he turns out to be sentient. Sim remembers some of the things that Trip remembers but not all.

So, in your version, Sim isn't supposed to be sentient? Phlox believes he is creating a clone that would be essentially an empty shell? Interesting untended consequences.

I'd get rid of any line that suggested that Trip was needed in order to save Earth, the motivations by the rest of the cast have to be entirely selfish. Sim has the ability to live just as long as Trip, none of this "Oh, there's a small chance you can live a full life" rubbish. You have to choose between trading one full life for another, they should not be able to justify it by saying that Sim was only going to live another five days anyway.

Sim doesn't want to die and refuses to let them kill him. He wants to userp Trip's life but nobody on the ship will ever see him as Trip. He realises that the parents he thinks of as his will never accept him as their son so he will never be able to lead the life he wants to lead. Maybe T'Pol rejecting him on this basis convinces him that he should sacrifice himself in order to bring Trip back. Not because it will save the human race, but because he can't justify living his life and letting Trip die if it will upset so many people.

Actually, I think you've got a great idea going, but I would take it all the way to the dark side... instead of Sim choosing to sacrifice himself, force the crew's hand, so to speak. Take what is needed to save Trip.

When Trip wakes up and finds out about this he feels guilty and ashamed. Depending on how the story ends he might feel like Archer and Phlox commited a murder he would never have let happen. He sets out at the end to find out everything he can about Sim.

I see no reason why Trip should feel guilty or ashamed. But he would be devastated to learn that the captain and friend he has looked up to for so many years and the doctor who has demonstrated so much compassion and wisdom could do such a monstrous thing.

Now please proceed to tell me why my outline sucks.

It doesn't.

 

[rhodeschroma]

GodBen, MerryJinXmas, I've really enjoyed the last few posts with some alternate ideas about how to create a stronger and tighter "Sim" episode. Both of you not only managed to clear up some of the plot inconsistencies, but also to tweak an episode that could've been more thought provoking had it been produced in a slightly different way. (As an aside - agreed on the opening - bad writing choice)

'Similitude' as it sat was one of my favorite ENT episodes, but your additional viewpoints didn't serve to destroy the Sim I enjoy watching, but rather as a springboard intellectually to take that piece one step further that it seemed the writers were afraid to. I've always felt that the most underserved plot device in the episode was not being able to really experience Trip's reaction to what had transpired and the lengths that had been gone to in order to secure his life - as well as the difficult decisions made by Phlox and Archer on his behalf. That's additional storytelling I would've liked to have seen, even if it meant having to carry over Trip's reactions to the next episode (not ideal, by any means, but I don't know really how much you could cut from the episode as it sits and still have it be as strong.)

Again, much enjoyed the discussion

 

[JiNX-01]

Thanks!
Actually, I do think it could have been taken into a later episode.

At the end of Similitude, Trip is, inexplicably IMO, attending the funeral of his clone. He had just had brain surgery, for heaven's sake. At most, he should have been shown watching from his bed in sickbay, Phlox at his side. I do think the dazed, almost shellshocked expression on Trip's face at the end of the episode spoke to his reaction to these events. But the only followup we ever see is Trip's irked reaction to learning Sim had been in T'Pol's quarters in what was actually a comical exchange between the two in "Harbinger." No problem there, the scene was extremely well done by CT and JB.

But long before that, there should have been a scene where Trip says something to Archer (who authorized the procedure and pushed to the end to make it happen).

 

[TheGodBen]

I had an idea which didn't suck? Well it's about time!

I see no reason why Trip should feel guilty or ashamed. But he would be devastated to learn that the captain and friend he has looked up to for so many years and the doctor who has demonstrated so much compassion and wisdom could do such a monstrous thing.

If I was in a coma it is was determined that I needed a heart transplant, when I wake up and find out that somebody else's heart is inside me it would change me as a person. Somebody who I never met has given me the gift of life.

If that person willingly ended their own life so that I could have their heart, it would be very hard for me to come to terms with. How can I justify my life if it came at the price of another person's? That knowledge would haunt me for the rest of my life. I would feel ashamed and I would feel guilty that this act was performed in my name.

Thinking about this now, for the writers to just ignore this aspect of the story is unforgivable. They could easily have done an episode the following week just about this issue. Instead we got Carpenter Street.

 

[JiNX-01]

I had an idea which didn't suck? Well it's about time!

I see no reason why Trip should feel guilty or ashamed. But he would be devastated to learn that the captain and friend he has looked up to for so many years and the doctor who has demonstrated so much compassion and wisdom could do such a monstrous thing.

If I was in a coma it is was determined that I needed a heart transplant, when I wake up and find out that somebody else's heart is inside me it would change me as a person. Somebody who I never met has given me the gift of life.

If that person willingly ended their own life so that I could have their heart, it would be very hard for me to come to terms with. How can I justify my life if it came at the price of another person's? That knowledge would haunt me for the rest of my life. I would feel ashamed and I would feel guilty that this act was performed in my name.

I suppose misplaced guilt would be possible (it's not actually his fault this tragic outcome occurred) but I'd be more inclined to feel profound disappointment in the people who made the decision, knowing that I would never want someone else to be sacrificed for me (especially if it was against his will, as I suggested above).
The alternative is that if someone gave up their life to save me, as Sim did in the actual episode, I should think Trip would strive to be worthy of the sacrifice and live as if every moment was a great gift, because it is.

Thinking about this now, for the writers to just ignore this aspect of the story is unforgivable. They could easily have done an episode the following week just about this issue. Instead we got Carpenter Street.

Unfortunately, that ball got dropped way too often on ENT. I think I know why.

DISCLAIMER: It is not my intention to derail this discussion. If someone wants to go beyond what I say here, please lift the link and take it to a new thread.

Connor gave an interview during Seatrek 2007 (sorry, I don't know if it's still available online). Anyway he said something about fans crediting Manny with being brought in to "save" ENT and said that was not true. Coto was brought in to take the pressure off Braga, but Brannon's "fingerprints" were on every script.

-------------

Back to me:
Braga had been doing Trek for well over 10 years at this stage... writing for and/or producing TNG, VOY and then ENT. He had to have been pretty burned out. So there was no keeping track of events that could have been given a coda in a later episode.
Sometimes it happened. Usually not.
Which is too bad, because every time the show did reconnect with an earlier event, it added a sense of realism. People don't just live week to week and then forget what happened. The events of our lives affect us. Grief and guilt haunt us. Joy and triumph buoy us.

I think that's what I really like about Stargate Atlantis' "Michael" arc (aside from Connor being Michael ). The Atlanteans create a Frankenstein's monster who comes back repeatedly to punish them for what they did to him.

 

[gblews]

I understand the morality play aspect of the episode, I just didn't find it interesting because I knew Sim was going to die and Trip would live. I never considered that to be in doubt for even a second.

The episode really wasn't about any question of whether or not Trip would live or die, that question was answered in the opening teasor. As others have pointed out, the episode was about the morality of "manufacturing" a sentient being just to harvest it's organs and then throwing that being away.

Secondly, I don't buy the concept that the ship somehow can't get by without Trip. Do you honestly expect me to believe that the other 20 people who work in the engineering department are completely incompetent?

No.

If I recall correctly, Archer didn't say he needed Trip so the ship would continue to run, he said he needed Trip in order to complete the Xindi mission. I interpreted this to mean that he needed Trip's experience and expertise in order to accomplish his mission.

There is also the interesting issue Jinx mentions; that Archer also wants his friend back. Despite Sim's stellar engineering performance up to that point in the story and his resemblance (to Trip) and possession of Trip's memories, Archer apparently still was not convinced that he was Trip.

It was even harder to feel emotionally attached to him when I knew that he was going to die.

Here is where I thought the exceptional guest casting and overall acting placed the story exactly where it should have been. Because the two young actors who played Sim at 10 and Sim at 17 or 18 were so convincing, not to mention Connor's superb performance when it was his turn to play Sim, I had no trouble relating to the character and in turn, feeling sympathy for him. Jolene, Scott, and John Billingley, all give some of the their best performances of the entire series.

If you liked this episode then good for you. For me it was just an interesting concept that was poorly handled.

Interesting. I thought the concept on the surface was quite shaky, but felt it worked beautifully soleley because of the way it was handled.

To each his own.

 

[TheGodBen]

The episode really wasn't about any question of whether or not Trip would live or die, that question was answered in the opening teasor. As others have pointed out, the episode was about the morality of "manufacturing" a sentient being just to harvest it's organs and then throwing that being away.

The question wasn't answered in the teaser, in fact they deliberately tried to make you think that Trip had died in the teaser. If I remember correctly, when Sim was in the coffin he was wearing a uniform even though he never wore that in the episode. Trip wasn't revealed to be at the funeral until final scene.

This is an episode about a moral issue, there is no need to start it out with this pathetic gimmick, there is no need to pretend that one of the cast is in any real peril. Anybody who thinks that Trip is going to die clearly doesn't understand the narrative imperative.

If I recall correctly, Archer didn't say he needed Trip so the ship would continue to run, he said he needed Trip in order to complete the Xindi mission. I interpreted this to mean that he needed Trip's experience and expertise in order to accomplish his mission.

The teaser served as a warning, but this is where the entire episode falls apart for me. This whole idea that Archer needed Trip or the mission would fail is incredibly stupid and insulting to me as an audience member. Am I really to believe that none of the other engineers on the ship have the ability to be the chief engineer? Well that is Archer's fault for putting together an incompetent crew, I thought these people were supposed to be the best of the best.

If Trip is really so vital to the mission that it would fail without him, why is Archer happy to let him come along with him on away missions? Surely Trip is too important to be sending him into dangerous situations like Archer does every second week. The episode did not need this premise to work.

There is also the interesting issue Jinx mentions; that Archer also wants his friend back. Despite Sim's stellar engineering performance up to that point in the story and his resemblance (to Trip) and possession of Trip's memories, Archer apparently still was not convinced that he was Trip.

Yes that is exactly what the episode needed to be about, the crew wanting Trip back for their own selfish needs and not being able to accept Sim as Trip. It would explore greed, loss, and what it truly means to be an individual. It could explore how sometimes we can never be the person we want to be because others will not accept us. This had the potential to be a very interesting exploration of the human condition.

Instead we got this moral question; Is it right to clone a sentient being that is going to live for 10 days in order to save billions upon billions of people?

That is not a morallity play, that's bleedin' obvious! A morallity play would be exploring if it is okay to clone such a being in order to save one person. I don't know the answer to that question so exploring that would have been far more worthwhile.

Here is where I thought the exceptional guest casting and overall acting placed the story exactly where it should have been. Because the two young actors who played Sim at 10 and Sim at 17 or 18 were so convincing, not to mention Connor's superb performance when it was his turn to play Sim, I had no trouble relating to the character and in turn, feeling sympathy for him. Jolene, Scott, and John Billingley, all give some of the their best performances of the entire series.

And this just shows me that the episode failed in what it was trying to do. If you are trying to do a serious exploration of a hot-button issue and the best you can say about it is that the performances were good and the story was okay, then you have failed as a writer. The writing should not be relying upon the actors to save it.

My favourite episode of Trek is In the Pale Moonlight. This episode has Avery Brooks and Andrew Robinson, two magnificent actors, playing against one another. The performances are exceptional. The final scene with Sisko talking to the camera sends shivers down my spine every time I watch it.

But that it not why it is my favourite episode. What makes it great is that it was exploring a brilliantly realised morality play, and after watching it a dozen times I still can't tell if Sisko was right to do what he did. It explored his soul and how tortured it was for what he was doing. The script was amazing, I can't think of anything in it that I would have changed. The performances were just the icing on a delicious cake, they could have just phoned it in and it would still be one of my favourite episodes.

To each his own.

Despite all I have said... I agree, to each his own. Some consider this to be a great episode, some consider In the Pale Moonlight to be a terrible episode. That's the great thing about art, you can't be wrong.

 

[commodore64]

Yes that is exactly what the episode needed to be about, the crew wanting Trip back for their own selfish needs and not being able to accept Sim as Trip.

For the most part, I think it was. Archer's reaction to Sim was very much -- "Please bring back Trip because I cannot accept Sim." At the end, I thought Archer's decision to bring Trip back was weak, which is why it seemed it was for selfish reasons. Sim saved the ship after all, and had been a valuable member of the crew.

 

[gblews]

The question wasn't answered in the teaser, in fact they deliberately tried to make you think that Trip had died in the teaser. If I remember correctly, when Sim was in the coffin he was wearing a uniform even though he never wore that in the episode. Trip wasn't revealed to be at the funeral until final scene.

Yes, I guess I got the two scenes confused. But I remember the first time I saw the episode and the opening teasor and not even considering the possibility that Trip would actually die during the episode. But it did peak my interest. That, I think, is why its called a 'teasor".

Here is where I thought the exceptional guest casting and overall acting placed the story exactly where it should have been. Because the two young actors who played Sim at 10 and Sim at 17 or 18 were so convincing, not to mention Connor's superb performance when it was his turn to play Sim, I had no trouble relating to the character and in turn, feeling sympathy for him. Jolene, Scott, and John Billingley, all give some of the their best performances of the entire series.

And this just shows me that the episode failed in what it was trying to do. If you are trying to do a serious exploration of a hot-button issue and the best you can say about it is that the performances were good and the story was okay,

Yes, except that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the superb acting was only one of the things that made Sim a great episode. My point was that the cast's superb performances were so realistic that I was able to feel sympathy and to empathize with not only Sim, but with Archer and his gut wrenching decision, and T'Pol and Phlox's feelings of sadness at losing Sim. This was in response to your comment about your not being able to feel for Sim or the other characters. But the acting was only one reason I liked the episode.

I've never really compared Sim to, "In the Pale Moonlight'. I haven't seen the episode in some time. I was a big DS9 fan and I liked Avery's work generally, when he wasn't devouring large chunks of the scenery and props.

 

[TheGodBen]

Point taken about the actors, this was definitely Bakula's best performance on the show. The whole thing just never really came together for me. Like I said, I'm jaded.