Romulans Vs. Cardassians

[EyalM]

I recently finished a marathon of TNG, and I noticed that while the Romulans were the go-to recurring villains in earlier to mid seasons of TNG, the later seasons shifted that role heavily towordes to Cardassians.

And what I was wondering is, why invent the Cardassians in the first place, instead of keep using the Romulans?

The Romulans were already established as an empire, so they could have been the ones to occupy Bajor.
The demilitarized zone could have been the dismantling of the neutral zone (which again could have left the Maquis on the wrong side of the border).
They already had an established all knowing and feared intelligence agency (instead of the Obsidian order).

So what do you think? Was the introduction of the Cardassians a missed opportunity to flesh out the Romulans?

 

[Mage]

I think seven seasons of one 'villian' (I really hate that word) would have been incredibly boring.
Sure, there will always be people who are big fans of one alien species and wouldn't mind seven seasons focusing on one alien culture, but most fans would loose interest.
Besides, it's all about 'to seek out new life and new civilizations', not 'let's focus on one species on end'.

And, honoustly, I found the insights into Romulan culture that was given in the novels far more interesting and intriguing then the insights we got in the series. Although I feel this is true for a lot of alien cultures in Star Trek.

 

[antiquityscion]

I recently finished a marathon of TNG, and I noticed that while the Romulans were the go-to recurring villains in earlier to mid seasons of TNG, the later seasons shifted that role heavily towordes to Cardassians.

And what I was wondering is, why invent the Cardassians in the first place, instead of keep using the Romulans?

The Romulans were already established as an empire, so they could have been the ones to occupy Bajor.
The demilitarized zone could have been the dismantling of the neutral zone (which again could have left the Maquis on the wrong side of the border).
They already had an established all knowing and feared intelligence agency (instead of the Obsidian order).

So what do you think? Was the introduction of the Cardassians a missed opportunity to flesh out the Romulans?

I think the main reason was to introduce them for the sake of DS9. TO establish a history.

Also, it was variety. Like Mage says, one villain would be boring.

 

[BillJ]

I think the main reason was to introduce them for the sake of DS9. TO establish a history.

Also, it was variety. Like Mage says, one villain would be boring.

They appeared twice before DS9 was on the drawing board and the Bajorans made their appearance prior to the creation of DS9.

 

[Sci]

They already had an established all knowing and feared intelligence agency (instead of the Obsidian order).

Actually, the Tal Shiar was only introduced in TNG Season Six's "Face of the Enemy," which aired on 8 February 1993, two years after the Cardassians were introduced in TNG Season Four's "The Wounded" (28 January 1991). The Obsidian Order was first introduced in DS9 Season Two's "The Wire," which aired on 8 May 1994.

 

[The Dominion]

The Cardassians were originally brought in as the TNG replacement to the Klingons, who had been the recurring enemies of the Federation in TOS but were now Federation allies. The Ferengi were actually the first replacement they came up with, but nobody took them seriously so they made the Cardassians. It's kind of coincidental that they ended up with similarities to the Romulans, like the way it was coincidental that the Klingons had several similarities with them in TOS.

Besides, it's long standing tradition to shaft the Romulans in favor of other species. The Klingons have been doing it to them throughout Star Trek, both the Klingons and the Cardassians did it to them in DS9, and the Remans did it to them in Nemesis.

 

[The Overlord]

Its a bit sad the Cardassians ended up getting far more development in TNG era shows then the Romulans. The Romulans always remained a cypher, which is fine at first, but got annoying after a while. It would have nice to learn more about Romulans in the course of the TV shows and movies.

 

[Anji]

The Cardassians were named after Robert Cardassian, a predominant lawyer. Lawyer to Rick Berman? I don't know.

But I do agree they should've just stuck with the Romulans, because the Cardassians came out too much like the Romulans.

 

[Disruptor]

The guy was Robert Kardashian, late father of the awful reality t.v. siblings.

TNG's The Wounded episode's plot required a race that had been at war with the Federation within recent history, in terms of O'Brien and Capt. Maxwell storyline. Since it was established the Romulans hadn't been in contact with the Federation in some 40 years prior to TNG season 1, that ruled them out for that episode.

And they made the Talarians (who had also recently been in conflict with the Federation) too lame in appearance and military capabilities to work in that storyline (I doubt they even considered it).

In terms of the Romulans, they made them look worse in Unification...yes, even the Romulan civilians have the same hair style(s) as Vulcans. Some sort of racial memory? Audience considered so dumb that we have to that visual cue to know they are related to Vulcans?

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

The biggest difference between Cardassians and Romulans is that the Cardassians are portrayed as almost pure pragmatists--there's no idealism or honor code or anything like that, only brutality.

Of course, what helped the Cardassians greatly is that we saw a variety of personalities, and real three-dimensionality. You can get a real sense from those individuals that there is something else to them that is not so brutal. Something better that they can be, a sense of potential I'm not sure that I ever saw with the other adversary races.

I do think we saw hints of that with the Romulans--but I agree the novels handled the Romulans better than the show.

 

[The Dominion]

I think the Romulan's legacy is of being more of the "proto" Federation adversary. Going back to TOS, it was the Romulans who appeared first, but the Klingons ended up being used more. Considering how many similarities they shared then, I've always seen TOS Klingons as sort of an upgrade of the same concept to have a cold war force as the recurring adversary. But the Klingons were one that was active instead of isolated, and therefore more practical to use.

Since then, there have just been more races invented to create specific scenarios, and the Romulans have been somewhat left behind.

 

[Paradon]

The Cardassians was a welcome addition to the Trek universe... It gets kindda repetitive if you use the same villans over and over again, and it is also why Voyager was set in the Delta Quadrant. Plus I think they did a great job developing the Cardassians and Dominions. I like Voyager's Species 8472, Hirogens and the closer look at the Borg culture.

 

[timmy84]

As a "villain" the Romulans always kinda sucked (at least to me they did). The Romulans seemed to have this manufactured hostility with everyone. Nothing but ego driving them. I won't deny the same thing wasn't happening with the Cardassians, but their aggression at least was written to be based on the need for resources to sustain their empire.

I liked the Cardassians. As a villain they were evil. Romulans were not.

 

[The Overlord]

The biggest difference between Cardassians and Romulans is that the Cardassians are portrayed as almost pure pragmatists--there's no idealism or honor code or anything like that, only brutality.

Of course, what helped the Cardassians greatly is that we saw a variety of personalities, and real three-dimensionality. You can get a real sense from those individuals that there is something else to them that is not so brutal. Something better that they can be, a sense of potential I'm not sure that I ever saw with the other adversary races.

I do think we saw hints of that with the Romulans--but I agree the novels handled the Romulans better than the show.

How are Romulans less pragmatic then the Cardassians though? Through out TNG the Romulans seemed to love employing dirty tricks to achieve their goals. Besides that Romulan Commander from the "Balance of Terror", how many Romulans were ever "honorable"?

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Yeah, the Romulans loved dirty tricks against military targets. However, we rarely--aside from "The Die is Cast," or that idiot Shinzon--ever hear them going for a complete blitzkrieg on the enemy, slaughtering not only military targets but civilians left and right. (The only incident that comes to mind is Khitomer, which certainly fits the bill.) Mostly they go for subterfuge and surgical strikes, and I don't hear them going after civilian targets so much--which would be quite the dishonorable thing to do. The Cardassians tend towards more brutal methods, to include civilian targets, suggesting no such system is in place.

 

[Disruptor]

How are Romulans less pragmatic then the Cardassians though? Through out TNG the Romulans seemed to love employing dirty tricks to achieve their goals. Besides that Romulan Commander from the "Balance of Terror", how many Romulans were ever "honorable"?

The Romulan captain in TNG's THE CHASE.

The one from Voyager who was actually from the past.

The prison camp commander in TNG's "Birthright".

That female commander in "Star Trek: Nemesis" (arguably though she was part of a murderous coup against her government.)

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Regarding the commander in Nemesis, I thought Donatra (the commander) and Tal'Aura (the latter of whom was the coup leader) were two separate people.

 

[Sci]

Regarding the commander in Nemesis, I thought Donatra (the commander) and Tal'Aura (the latter of whom was the coup leader) were two separate people.

Senator Tal'Aura was not the coup leader -- Shinzon was. Tal'Aura was just the person who assassinated the Senate for Shinzon.

And Disruptor's point seems to be that Donatra's support for Shinzon's coup -- she was one of several military officer who offered him support in his coup -- meant that she was part of a "murderous coup against her government," not that she committed the murders herself.

 

[CosmicQuestion]

I think it's cool that the Star Trek Galaxy had various 'superpowers'. Think about all the different countries right here on Earth, and the challanges of coexisting and cooperating in the here and now.

If some gaint spaceship dropped in tomorrow armed with 'phasers' and 'photon torpedoes' claiming to want to be our friends inviting us to join a 'federation', you'd better believe I'd be worried.

I bet even if two alien groups met peacefully it would be like walking on eggshells just wait for somebody to mess up. And somebody would...

 

[The Overlord]

How are Romulans less pragmatic then the Cardassians though? Through out TNG the Romulans seemed to love employing dirty tricks to achieve their goals. Besides that Romulan Commander from the "Balance of Terror", how many Romulans were ever "honorable"?

The Romulan captain in TNG's THE CHASE.

The one from Voyager who was actually from the past.

The prison camp commander in TNG's "Birthright".

That female commander in "Star Trek: Nemesis" (arguably though she was part of a murderous coup against her government.)

And there were several honorable Cardassians seen in Star Trek: Garak, Joret Dal, Marritza and even Damar eventually. That doesn't mean Cardassia is an honor based society and few honorable Romulans doesn't make their society honor based either. I see no evidence honor holds much value in Romulan society, since they base most of strategies on deception.

The fact is a code of honor was not a societal concern for either the romulans or the Cardassians, so I don't think the romulans are that much less pragmatic then the Cardassians. For the most part there is no code of honor that governs your average Romulan military officer, so why exactly are the Cardassians more ruthless? Romulans have engaged in massacres of civilians and have a slave race that does menial labor for them, exactly how are they less pragmatic then the Cardies?

The fact is Romulans and Cardassians are very similar, sure you can argue the Romulans are sneakier, but the Cardassians are pretty sneaky too. You can argue the Cardassians are more ruthless, but the Romulans are very ruthless in their own right.