Romulans and Their Ridges

[Timo]

If we ignore the idea of the Romulans being xenophobic, we could argue that any natural mutation that took place was welcomed as a patriotic thing, a monument to the establishing of a new home - and rendered harmless or positive through the application of modern medicine, which probably would have been available to these starfarers.

But I find it a bit unwise to speculate that the ridges are a Romulan thing when we do have ridges on the Mintakans, too. It's the ridgeless pointy-ears that are the anomaly here.

Funnily enough, I don't think we have onscreen evidence of the Romulans originating on Vulcan - it might be vice versa, really, with Vulcan just a failed colony of the Romulans, abandoned when half the colonists went mad with a "logic" obsession.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

But I find it a bit unwise to speculate that the ridges are a Romulan thing when we do have ridges on the Mintakans, too. It's the ridgeless pointy-ears that are the anomaly here.

That's why I think the Vulcans lost the ridges, rather than the other way around.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Funnily enough, I don't think we have onscreen evidence of the Romulans originating on Vulcan

You don't believe the many, many references to that very thing in dialogue?

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Remember, he suggested upthread that killing babies even after they were born was a "right" idea. He'll go after any outlandish idea.

 

[Timo]

You don't believe the many, many references to that very thing in dialogue?

Name one.

Remember, he suggested upthread that killing babies even after they were born was a "right" idea.

"Killing babies after they are born being right" is a canonical fact. Centurion Bocha said as much. And yes, it hardly can get more outlandish than that - there's nothing "inlandish" about a Romulan!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Disruptor]

It was just something the producers did to stand Romulans and Vulcans apart...

Yeah, and then they give virtually all the Romulans "bowl" hair cuts the Vulcans have. The forehead V lets you know they are different from Vulcans, but the Moe Howard 'do lets you know they are related to Vulcans!

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

Remember, he suggested upthread that killing babies even after they were born was a "right" idea. He'll go after any outlandish idea.

Um...no, he didn't. I assume you're referring to Timo, but he said nothing of the kind. All he said about it was this:

Which is most probably pure propaganda, as we have seen plenty of physically "misfit" Romulans, from plump to feeble.

How do you get from that to "killing babies is right?" Am I missing something?

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Tiberius, your answer quoted from upthread.

Perhaps mutations frequently take place in the irradiated hellhole of a desert world, and a survivalist desert culture rightly fights them with some judicious postnatal aborting - but by Surak's time, the Vulcan civilization has evolved enough to allow the mutants to live, and the big spiritual jump there is one from no longer rational intolerance to modern, newly rational tolerance?

Read that again, guys. In the absence of technology, Timo said killing babies even after they were born was A-OK if they have a mutation.

Cultural relativism at its ugliest.

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

Timo said killing babies even after they were born was A-OK if they have a mutation.

I...don't think that's what he meant. He's probably trying to say that the ultra-survivalist early Vulcans would view such an action as the right thing to do, especially considering this line:

the Vulcan civilization has evolved enough to allow the mutants to live

While he probably should have worded it better, I really don't think Timo actually supports killing babies. But perhaps we should give him a chance to explain himself instead of saying, "Hey, everybody, Timo wants to kill babies!"

 

[Enterprise is Great]

Romulans favorite Earth food is Ruffles potato chips. They're ribbed for their pleasure.

 

[Timo]

While he probably should have worded it better, I really don't think Timo actually supports killing babies.

I'm always in for a bit of provocative wording, but remember: not long ago, each and every one of you would have been supporting killing babies.

That is, for most of the history of mankind, it has been pretty darned difficult to kill anybody before he or she is born (at least without killing the mother as well), and nigh-impossible to determine whether this somebody should be killed or allowed to be born - thus, any concept of refining the human species through breeding has depended on the killing of babies or the taking of measures to prevent certain individuals from breeding (castration, blackmailing, imprisonment, banishment). These would be the means available to Vulcankind as well, for most of its supposed ascent to a technological and starfaring civilization. And whether calmly logical or full of rage, the early Vulcans would certainly have been faced with problems of eugenics on their barren planet.

The interesting aspect here is whether Vulcan telepathy would allow for some sort of an alien way of regulating the breeding. Perhaps all this "bonding" business from "Amok Time" is eugenics at work: marriages involving individuals telepathically judged (by a council of elders?) to be incompatible will fail, thanks to this telepathic meddling around Pon Farr. Perhaps the very concept of Pon Farr has been introduced as a means of regulating childbirth telepathically?

For Vulcans, this is speculation. For Romulans, "The Enemy" makes it a canonical fact that murdering of the unfit at an early age (that is, with "parents" making the decision, thus apparently over a child) is popular and accepted and indeed mandatory. Or at least this is what the lower classes are led to believe.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Joker]

While he probably should have worded it better, I really don't think Timo actually supports killing babies.

I'm always in for a bit of provocative wording...

Yeah, if there's one thing you're known for around here, it's edgy provocative wording.

 

[Tomalak]

Was there ever a consensus about the genetic differences between Vulcans and Romulans? It seemed to depend on plot expediency most of the time - sometimes scanners could discern one from the other, sometimes not. Sometimes their physiques were compatible, sometimes there seemed to be significant differences.

 

[T'Bonz]

The only difference I saw minus those stupid ridge was that the Romulans didn't seem to have the mental mind-reading/bonding ability that the Vulcans had.

Obviously, if they had, they would have used/mis-used it.