• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Re-Watching DS9

It's April 2nd now, my time, so that was a big April Fool's Joke, to those who didn't know or didn't look in the spoiler space. ;)

The timing and where I am in the series, the opportunity was too good to pass up!

In the meantime, this past week, I've been binge-watching For All Mankind! Three seasons down out of the four so far. It's now my favorite current show.
 
Last edited:
FOR ALL MANKIND is excellent.

Have you seen FOUNDATION? That's another I'd highly recommend. It's only 2 seasons, with the third coming later this year, I believe.
I haven't seen it, but I'll add Foundation to the list. I briefly glimpsed at the Wikipedia article. It looks like Jared Harris, a Mad Men alum, is in it. Foundation seems like the opposite of For All Mankind: the far-future instead of an alternate history. So that'll be an interesting way to change things up! But it won't be for a little bit.

After I'm caught up with For All Mankind, I'm watching The Americans. I've heard The Americans a lot like FAMK, plus my father and his girlfriend watched it. I'll return the favor next time I see them and introduce them to For All Mankind. They spend half the year down South, and the other half up here in the North.

Then after The Americans, it'll be onto Foundation. Thanks for the recommendation!
 
If you're talking about the spy-drama series The Americans, that show is great! Though it made me wince a lot of the time due to the actions of the characters. A sequence involving a suitcase comes to mind...
 
Yes. I’ve not read the books though so I can’t say how faithful of an adaptation it is.
 
Done with For All Mankind. It's now one of my top three favorite shows of all-time, alongside Mad Men and Better Call Saul. Provisionally. Those two shows are over and FAMK isn't but, if the quality holds, it'll be my new favorite show for sure. The #1 spot. When I got hooked, I got hooked. I can't wait for the fifth season.

I'm diving back into DS9 again. I was going to do it on the 14th, BUT I had Jury Duty in the morning. Early in the morning. I'm not a morning person. And I had to drive pretty far for it. So, I spent the rest of the day feeling like a zombie. Now my sleep cycle's messed up. I keep trying to sleep, because I'm so tired, but I can't. I usually joke about being an insomniac, but right now I actually am. Luckily, I have the day off on the 15th. I was going to type "I have tomorrow off" but it is tomorrow!

So, I'm doing "Improbable Cause" and "The Die Is Cast" for real now. I'm having a pizza from my favorite restaurant, pinot noir because life has been crazy lately, and I'll sit back, relax... and watch Garak blow up his own shop!
 
Last edited:
Done with For All Mankind. It's now one of my top three favorite shows of all-time, alongside Mad Men and Better Call Saul. Provisionally. Those two shows are over and FAMK isn't but, if the quality keep holds, it'll my new favorite show for sure. The #1 spot. When I got hooked, I got hooked. I can't wait for the fifth season.

I'm diving back into DS9 again. I was going to do it on the 14th, BUT I had Jury Duty in the morning. Early in the morning. I'm not a morning person. And I had to drive pretty far for it. So, I spent the rest of the day feeling like a zombie. Now my sleep cycle's messed up. I keep trying to sleep, because I'm so tired, but I can't. I usually joke about being an insomniac, but right now I actually am. Luckily, I have the day off on the 15th. I was going to l was going to type "I have tomorrow off" but is tomorrow!

So, I'm doing "Improbable Cause" and "The Die Is Cast" for real now. I'm having a pizza from my favorite restaurant, pinot noir because life has been crazy lately, and I'll sit back, relax... and watch Garak blow up his own shop!
I'm glad you loved FOR ALL MANKIND. It is truly a marvelous show. I can't wait for the new season, either.
 
"Improbable Cause"

Throughout this episode, I was looking for connections. To what had come before, what comes after, what happens to the side, and any type of metaphors.

When Garak and Bashir are talking about Shakespear's Julius Ceasar, Garak is highly critical of Shakespear and says that it was so predictable that Brutus would betray Ceasar that he could tell in the first act. Garak's main critique is that Ceasar couldn't see what was right in front of him. This comes back at the end of the episode when Garak can't see what's right in front of him when Enabran Tain offers him a position back at his side when Tain says he has no intention of going back into retirement.

Julius Ceasar isn't the only literary reference, there's also The Boy Who Cried Wolf and Bashir telling Garak that if someone keeps lying, no one will believe them even if they're telling the truth. I love when Garak spins it and says the real lesson is to never tell the same lie twice.

Odo is a great detective who pays attention to all the details. Odo deduces a Flaxian tried to have Garak killed but he also deduced that Garak took advantage of the Flaxian trying to have him killed. Garak was trying to stay ahead of Odo and, by getting Odo involved, he thought he could take control of the inevitable investigation. This was a weakness on Garak's part. He should've known that Odo would piece everything together and see right through all of his manipulation. My favorite scene in the entire episode is when Odo finally calls Garak out on his shit.

Another thing that Garak couldn't see was the possibility of Enabran Tain wanting to come out of retirement. Because he couldn't see it, he couldn't see that Tain would want to kill off anyone who could provide intelligence on him, including Garak.

As Odo is trying to see what he can find out about Garak and Tain's past relationship, it seems like he's on the track to finding out that Garak is Tain's son. It's not a conclusion I came to in 1995 when this episode aired and, two years later, in "In Puragtory's Shadow", I thought they were lying. I guess I would've been one of the villagers who wouldn't believe the boy who cried "Wolf!", though now I can see it in retrospect.

It was a masterstroke to have Odo use a contact from his Terok Nor days when trying to obtain more information about who really tried to have Garak killed. His Cardassian contact was appropriately mysterious and, given when this was made, it felt a little bit like DS9 was channeling The X-Files. Except The X-Files would've let all the questions about "something larger at play" linger in the background for several episodes and even seasons at a time. Here, we find out the plot within the same episode...

The Obsidian Order teaming up with the Tal'Shiar. Makes perfect sense. The Cardassian and Romulan Intelligence Agencies teaming up to stop the Dominion by eliminating the Founders. Something that Section 31 would try later on as well, through different means. Despite what I said in my April Fool's post about the Romulans never wanting to make the first move, the Tal'Shiar was always more willing to make a move than Romulan Imperial Fleet. A no better example of which can be seen in TNG's "Face of the Enemy".

When the episode ends and Garak agrees to join Tain, I think he does so not just because Tain is his father and he wants acceptance from him, but because he wants an escape from exile. He tried to make the best of his exile, but he always hated it. That's made perfectly clear to me in "The Wire". He doesn't care that Tain tried to have him killed, he wants back to his old life. Which, again, makes it hard to see what's clearly right in front of him.

Overall, this is a very well put together and thought-out episode. But it's set-up and missing a certain spark that I know will come in the next one. So, I give it a 9.

EDITED TO ADD:
Just imagine the fight that would've broken out between Chang and Garak over Spakespear. "And let's slip THE DOGS OF WAR!!!!"
 
Last edited:
"The Die Is Cast"

Great episode. Not only can I see how Deep Space Nine has made Garak soft, I can see Enabran Tain seeing it too, and the Founder posing as a Romulan. Tain was suspicious of Garak again as soon as he said Odo wouldn't have an any information, he couldn't be broken, and later on when he said Odo should be kept alive. When Garak was pleading with Odo to tell him anything and to make up something if he had to, I have mixed thoughts: 1) I hope this is him changing and he wasn't this soft in the Old Days or I'd be disappointed, and 2) The writers were probably determined to make him seem likable and really Our Side, despite his past. I think if Tain hadn't been captured, he would've tried to have Garak killed again.

On a brighter note: Sisko disobeying Admiral Todman's orders. No surprise he'd do that. And no surprise that Eddington would tattle-tail and do whatever Todman said. In my head-canon, Admiral Todman is the great-grandson of the top Admiral in TUC. Todman mentions that if Sisko disobeys his orders again, he'll either court-martial or promote him, but he'll be in a lot of trouble. My takeaway: this is the third time this season they've planted the idea of Sisko being a Captain. Yes, I'm keeping track.

I wonder if at this stage, the writers knew that Eddington was really a Maquis? Sisko says he makes it a policy to trust anyone who wears a Starfleet Uniform and tells Eddington not to make him change that policy. And later on, we'll clearly see Eddington was someone not to be trusted after all, just not for the reason Sisko would've thought here.

When the Obsidian Order and the Tal'Shiar are ambushed by the Jem'Hadar, and a great big space-battle breaks out, it's the first Large Scale DS9 Battle of the type I associate with Late-DS9. Nice to finally be up to the point where I'm seeing these! Because I've been doing this re-watch on my projector, this is the first time -- outside of What We Left Behind -- that I'm getting to see these DS9 Space Battles on the "Big Screen". Really my entire living room wall. Same difference. I'm here for it!

The Generations music fits the Space Battle and I think this encouraged the composers to go bigger with the DS9 soundtrack from here on out. From here on out, when there's an important episode, I remember noticing the music more going forward.

I love the shot when Garak is back in his blown-up tailor shot, looking at the wreckage, then he sees a reflection of Odo, from a distance, in the mirror. Great shot. I love when they go artsy like that. Added depth that Garak sees a reflection because he's already reflecting. About his situation, about his life. Odo says he can appreciate Garak's desire to want to go home. It's the one thing they do have in common.

The only other thing I have that's immediately coming to mind is: What was Bashir thinking, talking about literature with O'Brien? He's the common man. He's the everyman. He's not going to be able to keep up with Bashir, talking about Shakespear. It was funny, though. "So, what do you think?" Sounds like me when I'm trying to talk to a normie about something.

I know I'm leaving a ton of stuff out, but I'll stop for now. Overall, I give this episode a 10.

NEXT UP:
Getting caught up with Babylon 5. It's been a while.

But before I do that, I'll be doing something a little bit different. I'll be re-watching "Chain of Command" (not reviewing it!) but syncing it up so that I can watch Jen Murray's reaction and Target Audience's reaction side-by-side, so I can see both of them reacting at the same time while I have the episode on. That'll be interesting! It'll be the first time I've ever tried to do something like this.
 
Last edited:
I think my only reservation about "Die is Cast" is that Defiant doesn't really do much for the vast majority of the episode. I realize it kind of has to be out of the action because it can't show up to the battle too early, but it's just a shame that Our Heroes are stranded and largely ineffective for most of the episode.

I kind of felt as though this might have been an opportunity to give us more insight into who Eddington was and what we might expect of him in the future, and perhaps that was the intention at the time, but even if it was, it's ultimately going to be superceded by later revelations.

The Garak-Tain and Garak-Odo interactions are wonderful, and I also enjoy the Lovok revelation and kind of wish we'd seen him again in some manner.
 
Okay. I just finished re-watching "Chain of Command, Part I" at the same time with Jen Murray and Target Audience. That made for quite the experience.

First, I had to sync everything up. Then, as I was watching it, it was a bit disorienting at first, but then I got adjusted to it. They didn't talk over each other too often, so it was like I had everyone over to watch with me. I got to hear all the different perspectives in one viewing. I had them on my computer monitor and the episode itself on the projector. As long as I ignored the timers and didn't fixate on that part, it was fine.

The trickiest part was adjusting the volume on the two reactions so they were at the same level. Jen Murray was louder than Target Audience, so I turned her down a little and them as high as I could. Then I turned down the volume of the actual episode itself so I could hear everyone over it but still be able to follow the episode.

If it sounds like a tough balance, that's because it was. But once I settled into the rhythm, it was great. I'll try this out again next week for DS9's "Emissary". So, consider "Chain of Command" a test-run.

I only recommend watching something you know by heart this way. It's pretty amazing how much the mind tries to split itself following three things at once, whether they're complimentary and working in tandem with other or not. I'd never try to do something like this with Babylon 5 or For All Mankind.
 
Last edited:
Funny, I think that between the two episodes, both great, I rank Improbable Cause as perfect, but Die is Cast slightly lower. The interrogation scene dilutes the mystique of Garak's cruelty as an interrogator.
 
I'd still like to know who Odo's informant was. That was something that could have been fleshed out in the novels at least, but I'm not sure it ever was.

I agree that I give the first part somewhat higher marks than the second part, but that they're both very good, albeit for very different reasons.
 
I agree that I give the first part somewhat higher marks than the second part, but that they're both very good, albeit for very different reasons.
I think the cat-and-mouse game in part I works perfectly. Both characters appear to be masters at their craft, but how Odo exposes Garak seems natural without taking away from Garak's prowess.
 
I just finished watching "Chain of Command, Part II" with Target Audience and Jen Murray at the same time. It went much smoother than Part I, since I got a handle on having both reactions next to the episode. So, it'll be smooth sailing for "Emissary".

I have to be honest here, the reason I chose "Chain of Command" as my test-bed is because while I acknowledge this an excellent two-parter, watching Picard get tortured isn't something I want to see multiple times. That's why I really wanted to watch both reactions at the same time. So I wouldn't have to do it twice.

Whereas with "Emissary", it'll be more like I'm just hanging out with them watching DS9.

It was a stroke of genius to have the Cardassians so prominent in the last TNG story immediately before DS9 premiered. Really drive home how brutal they can be. It's not really done justice in "The Wounded" or "Ensign Ro" and you don't get the full sense of how bad it is even in DS9, except episodes like "Duet".

To circle this back to "Improbable Cause" and "The Die Is Cast", I feel like Garak has romanticized his previous life as agent in the Obsidian Order. I have no idea if he was as bad as Gul Madred, but it's possible he could've been, right down to the use of deception to manipulate people do what they want.

I had a random thought while I was watching "The Die Is Cast", when I heard Garak's full name spoken. I can't believe I never thought of this before: Elim is short for "eliminate". Maybe that's how the DS9's writers came up with Garak's first name. Who knows? Just idle speculation on my part.
 
Last edited:
To circle this back to "Improbable Cause" and "The Die Is Cast", I feel like Garak has romanticized his previous life as agent in the Obsidian Order. I have no idea if he was as bad as Gul Madred, but it's possible he could've been, right down to the use of deception to manipulate people do what they want.
Up until The Die is Cast, Garak's prowess is either legend or propaganda. Certainly, we get confirmation that his views of morality are so flexible, he could do anything. That said, I think we understand he was also ruthless. I think this perspective is solidified in Broken Link and Empok Nor. Where it best shows is in In The Pale Moonlight: the actor playing Grathon Tolar fully sells the dread that comes from being associated with Garak, and it is paid off dramatically with his assassination. The interrogation is an exception, a discontinuity: Garak turns on a machine and waits, acting with desperation when Odo does not heed.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top