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Spoilers Prodigy Episode Previews

Who knows, maybe the initial First Contact with Solum was an early attempt to try and locate where Solum was (to try and rescue the Protostar crew when the time came to do so), and when they realized they made contact with the Vau'N'A'Kat, it was too late to change things, so they had to follow FC protocol.

Basically, a predestination paradox issue.
The Protostar travels accidentally to ruined future Solum, but the FC with Solum was made because SF was looking for it in the first place so they can be ready and rescue the Protostar crew (I don't think it was established WHERE Solum is, just that its somewhere deep in the DQ).
Logically, first contact should have come first, otherwise there never would have been a reason for The Order to be formed and to target the Federation specifically. And it seems to me that the timeline changes everytime something is changed in the past, and so the future that the Diviner and Ascencia come from is already an alternate one from the POV of our characters (but the two villains), as Janeway correctly surmises.

I don't think we even know for sure that Solum is in the delta quadrant, though it seems very likely. Chakotay was talking about the Delta Quadrant in his SOS to Starfleet (while encountering the anomaly) and his mission was to go there as well, so he definititely was in the Delta when he encountered the anomaly. However, we're not 100% certain the exit of the anomaly also was in the Delta quadrant; if it traverses not only time but also space, it could be in, say, an as of yet unexplorerd part of the beta quadrant too. Or even in the Gamma quadrant, though it would have to be reasonably close to the stable wormhole connection in order for a Prometheus class to reach it.
 
Logically, first contact should have come first, otherwise there never would have been a reason for The Order to be formed and to target the Federation specifically. And it seems to me that the timeline changes everytime something is changed in the past, and so the future that the Diviner and Ascencia come from is already an alternate one from the POV of our characters (but the two villains), as Janeway correctly surmises.

We don't know this 100% though.
VADM Janeway may have called it an alternate future, but there is no real reason to think of it that way.
For all we know, this attack on SF (by the Living Construct) is part of the paradox which will ultimately fail to infect the rest of SF, and SF still makes contact eather way in the future.

Temporal paradoxed don't always have a 'beginning'. In Trek, there have been instances where events have preceded causes... and even early on in VOY, Janeway explained in episode 'Parallax':
"One of the more difficult concepts to grasp in temporal mechanics is that sometimes effect can precede cause. A reaction can be observed before the action which initiated it."

I'd say this could just as easily be a predestination paradox with no discernible 'beginning' because the past influences the future, and the future influences the past in turn - a bit mind-bending I agree, but still possible.

Sure, is it possible that Chakotay and his crew are in an alternate future? Yes... but as we saw in Trek before, not all instances of time travel involved alternate timelines.

Given the events that we already saw take place, its possible that Solum's future is set (aka, civil war is inevitable), but not all Vau'N'A'Kat are probably gone... and Gwyn might be the person to end the civil war and unite them... with UFP also potentially helping them to rebuild (since, they DID initiate FC, and in turn are at least PARTLY responsible for what happened - although to be fair, there was no way to know for sure - every FC carries with it a degree of risk).

I don't think we even know for sure that Solum is in the delta quadrant, though it seems very likely. Chakotay was talking about the Delta Quadrant in his SOS to Starfleet (while encountering the anomaly) and his mission was to go there as well, so he definititely was in the Delta when he encountered the anomaly. However, we're not 100% certain the exit of the anomaly also was in the Delta quadrant; if it traverses not only time but also space, it could be in, say, an as of yet unexplorerd part of the beta quadrant too. Or even in the Gamma quadrant, though it would have to be reasonably close to the stable wormhole connection in order for a Prometheus class to reach it.

This bit of reasoning I'd agree with in principle (since wormholes are passageways not just in space but also in time [as Tuvok ascertained on VOY], it stands to reason its exit point could have lead elsewhere in the Galaxy), but the actual on-screen dialogue confirms the Protostar was somewhere in the DQ AFTER encountering the anomaly.

In episode 16 (when everyone were reminiscing about their pasts), we saw Chakotay saying:
"Mayday! Mayday! We're lost somewhere in the Delta Quadrant. The protostar sustained heavy damage after passing through a temporal anomaly."
The initial holo of this warning (which Rok first discovered) in the first half of this season, also contained Delta Quadrant... so it stands to reason the 'complete' footage we saw in the reminiscing was accurate.

I don't understand why this footage was shortended to omit 'We're lost somehwere in the DQ' when VADM Janeway was looking at it while in Dal's body - but I suppose they didn't want to show it again and it was 'shortened' for our sake but was actual (or 'full') length for VADM Janeway.
 
I don't like temporal paradoxes in general (maybe if the movie/franchise/Tv-serie is specifically constructed around them, as may be the case with Terminator I suppose?). And I think VA Janeway's log is a sign the writers aren't going for it in this case.

For the writers, it may be an enticing concept as "the effect can precede the cause" means they don't have to plot carefully, because everything can be explained away by the paradox. I also don't like things that "have to happen", even more so if people are then doing everything in their power to force them to happen (totally unnecessary if its predestined to happen; it will happen, even if nobody does anything to make it happen).

It's also worth noticing that Janeway's own big time travelling moment also involved an alternate future, changed by changing the present with tech from the future. Much like the Vau N'akat are doing.
 
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I don't like temporal paradoxes in general (maybe if the movie/franchise/Tv-serie is speficially constructed around them, as may be the case with Terminator I suppose?). And I think VA Janeway's log is a sign the writers aren't going for it in this case.

Its possible. But its also possible that Janeway's notions about Chakotay being in an alternate future is wrong.

Given how Prodigy is going thus far, I don't think the writers will be using a 'reset button' to prevent Solum from falling into a civil war nor to erase the massacre that occurred as a result of the Construct going off. They may just in fact go with the established series of events and attempt to work from there instead (aka, no circumventing stuff).

For the writers, it may be an enticing concept as "the effect can precede the cause" means they don't have to plot carefully, because everything can be explained away by the paradox. I also don't like things that "have to happen", even more so if people are then doing everything in their power to force them to happen (totally unnecessary if its predestined to happen; it will happen, even if nobody does anything to make it happen).

The problem with paradoxes and people's intentions is that people who try to change things usually don't have enough information/data to work with and their very actions of trying to PREVENT something actually results in an outcome they tried to avoid.
This was showcased in Trek before as well - even without time travel being involved.

One (potential) problem with a predestination paradox is this:
If Chakotay is rescued in Season 2 and returned to his time, what reason would SF have to search for Solum's whereabouts in the first place and initate FC (if my hypothesis is accurate?).

Well, if they don't, then the whole series of events we just saw never happens and the Prodigies (as well as everything that happened to date) gets erased/rewritten... and this is one thing that Janeway and Prodigies might have to wrestle with, but ultimately not change (or come to terms with the premise that it cannot be changed because it could change things to an extremely unpredictable degree).

It would be a difficult decision to make (especially given the knowledge of what awaits Solum), but it may be something which ultimately needs to happen so Solum can move forward... and this could also result in Chakotay and his crew eventually being rescued by 25th century Starfleet (and the grown up Prodigies).

But this may clash with what Mulgrew mentioned about people who were shipping Chakotay and Janeway and said that they will be happy with how things turn out between them (but earlier she also said that J/C ship won't be happening and are just friends who developed family type bonds with each other - so it can go either way).

There's a lot to consider about what might happen next season... but I don't think a 'reset button' is in the works.

It's also worth noticing that Janeway's own big time travelling moment also involved an alternate future, changed by changing the present with tech from the future. Much like the Vau N'akat are doing.

Yes, but future Janeway affected things in a different way... also, her method of traveling to the past was technological.
Not every time travel method results in quite what we expect.
Depending on the method of temporal travel, it can be a predestination paradox (meant to happen and cannot be altered), alternate future/timeline (changing the past does not affect the future from which the person came - such is the case with 'Endgame' and Future Janeway), or corruption of the prime timeline (in which case fixing the problem restores the prime timeline and the corrupted timeline is erased).
 
Given how Prodigy is going thus far, I don't think the writers will be using a 'reset button' to prevent Solum from falling into a civil war nor to erase the massacre that occurred as a result of the Construct going off. They may just in fact go with the established series of events and attempt to work from there instead (aka, no circumventing stuff).
That would not be a reset button. If they would travel back 2 hours in part 2 of the season finale, in order to get a do-over of the fight with the fleet and then with Ascencia and co, and the result is different, that would be an actual reset-button (as ST quite often used in past series).

But everything regarding Solum hasn't even happened yet. The future from the Diviner is not something even he wants, and it has irrevocably been changed already by the massive influence he and Ascencia already had on the present (not too mention, potentially up to 98 other agents are also changing the future). They want to circumvent this, and so would Starfleet. Just like the Ent-D crew wants to circumvent being destroyed, say, in "cause and effect". You want the desired outcome (which is, in this case, the ship unharmed and continuing on its merry way), not some supposedly predestined outcome that is obviously bad. People have agency, they can use it.

And VA Janeway writes that the future the Diviner told Gwyn about, is an alternate future (as far as she is concerned). Doesn't sound like she thinks this should be the future now. Nor did the Diviner, who wanted to avoid first contact and now tasked Gwyn with an attempt to unite the Vau N'akat. I don't think there is anybody at all who wants Ascencia's future to be what actually ends happening in their timeline.
 
That would not be a reset button. If they would travel back 2 hours in part 2 of the season finale, in order to get a do-over of the fight with the fleet and then with Ascencia and co, and the result is different, that would be an actual reset-button (as ST quite often used in past series).

According to someone else, the Supernova Part 2 episode was leaked on Paramount + in Brazil... and it was seen that there was no time travel in the episode... but rather, the crew will try something else to stop the Construct (aka, they Prodigies will try to blow up the ship).

But everything regarding Solum hasn't even happened yet. The future from the Diviner is not something even he wants, and it has irrevocably been changed already by the massive influence he and Ascencia already had on the present (not too mention, potentially up to 98 other agents are also changing the future). They want to circumvent this, and so would Starfleet. Just like the Ent-D crew wants to circumvent being destroyed, say, in "cause and effect". You want the desired outcome (which is, in this case, the ship unharmed and continuing on its merry way), not some supposedly predestined outcome that is obviously bad. People have agency, they can use it.

Again, if this whole thing is a predestination paradox, then nothing has changed or will change. The Construct going off and destroying all these ships is part of the whole chain of events.
Point being, the Construct will likely be stopped without changing what happened in 'Supernova Part 1'. SF will be bruised as a result but will recover.

The Vau'N'A'Kat have 0 clue of whether or not this whole thing is a predestination paradox. All they know is that SF made contact which split Solum and are blaming SF for not interfering, and a temporal anomaly/wormhole opened up near their planet which leads to the past and they THINK they can stop SF, when in fact, everything they did and will do is part of chain of events of how history is supposed to happen anyway (its very possible they have little to no understanding of Temporal Mechanics - heck, even the Vulcans didn't think Time Travel existed in the mid 22nd century and Archer practically had to wrestle with them on the subject matter until he showed Quantum Dating reading which showed positive numbers on a piece of technology from the future).

The Construct will likely be stopped, SF recovers, and eventually makes first contact with Solum (as it happened in the recalls)... and the Vau'N'A'kat only come to realise this AFTER the Prodigies and Janeway arrive to rescue Chakotay (but admittedly, its possible I could be wrong and they will in fact change Solum's future - all I'm doing is positing a possibility for how the next sequence of events might unfold... with a less cheerful outlook).

And besides, Wolf 359 was a devastating conflict which took lives of 11 000 officers... or the Dominion war... and yet, Trek didn't erase those events.
Its possible/likely that the current events from Supernova Part 1. will remain similarly intact (but hopefully, with minimal casualties thanks to the allies).

And VA Janeway writes that the future the Diviner told Gwyn about, is an alternate future (as far as she is concerned). Doesn't sound like she thinks this should be the future now. Nor did the Diviner, who wanted to avoid first contact and now tasked Gwyn with an attempt to unite the Vau N'akat. I don't think there is anybody at all who wants Ascencia's future to be what actually ends happening in their timeline.

VADM Janeway's personal log is just that. She may be a scientist but even she doesn't know conclusively that the future in which Chakotay is held prisoner is alternate or something that's going to happen anyway.
She's been wrong about her assumptions about the kids after all (which she freely admitted)... so, she can just as easily be wrong about this too.

At the very least, we need to keep this as an option for possible sequence of events... and if it comes to pass, it may not be pretty, but it wouldn't be any less Trek than what came before.

Also, it seems somehow 'diminishing' and a 'slap in the face' to deny Solum the reformation that may come from a civil war (as tragic as that idea may be).
Other species (but not all of them) had to go through similar ordeals (the Vulcans certainly have)... humanity was no exception (World War III anyone?).

Is there a reason Solum should be spared this? I don't enjoy conflict at all, and would prefer for a peaceful solution, but Solum would have gone through the same thing one way or another even if they hadn't encountered SF and instead encountered a different species (and had that species been less friendly than SF, they may have decided to obliterate the Vau'N'A'Kat instead).
 
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Also, it seems somehow 'diminishing' and a 'slap in the face' to deny Solum the reformation that may come from a civil war (as tragic as that idea may be).
Other species (but not all of them) had to go through similar ordeals (the Vulcans certainly have)... humanity was no exception (World War III anyone?).

Is there a reason Solum should be spared this? I don't enjoy conflict at all, and would prefer for a peaceful solution, but Solum would have gone through the same thing one way or another even if they hadn't encountered SF and instead encountered a different species (and had that species been less friendly than SF, they may have decided to obliterate the Vau'N'A'Kat instead).
We don't know that; the beef of the Diviner is specifically with the Federation and it seems to be tied to enticing qualities that the Diviner admits the Federation does have (which is why he himself used to be pro-Federation and why he kept info of it from his daughter). Without knowing the exact cause of the civil war and what the Federation did and didn't do, we can't say for sure first contact with, say, the Romulans or the Ferengi would have been just as disastrous.

Moreover, there seems to be some truth in the statement of Ascencia that the Federation was "primitive". Obviously this is not literally true, but while the Vau N'akat likely were far behind in propulsion (warp), their AI/computers and their minds (with their telekinesis/telepathy and apparent enormous capacity to learn languages and possibly more) do appear to be advanced compared to what the Federation has at this time. It's not necessarily the case that they wouldn't have been able to resist in case Romulans or Klingons would decide to take their world, especially since the distances involved likely mean no huge fleets/numbers would be available for the attackers. Klingons and Romulans don't seem to be significantly, if at all, better than the Federation in cybersecurity, so their vessels may have been vulnerable regardless of superiority in firepower.

However, I take issue with the idea that Solum should not be "denied" the reformation that may come from a civil war. It seems Solum is totally devastated in the future and that few survivors still remain. I think most people would want such an "opportunity" to be denied. If that is (or was, in the alternate timeline) the reasoning of Starfleet then one almost has to applaud Asencia. After all, she merely seems to want to "not deny" to the Federation the opportunity of "reform" after their entire fleet has been lost and much of their Starfleet personnel has perished. So, why does everybody resist this "benign" action by Ascencia ("I destroy you for your own good")? I think the answer is obvious.

If we feel threatened by a possible WW3 we would also want to avoid that, regardless of what "reformation" may come afterwards (it could also be the end of the world or at least of any semblance of a civilisation). If some third party, able but unwilling to help, would then say: "nah, we'll let the killing go ahead, you might be the better for it afterwards", I doubt we would appreciate that.

If this was and remains Starfleet's policy regarding Solum - "why should we do anything to help, being destroyed might improve you" - then expect Gwyn to turn away in disgust, to some extent like her father did.

If Starfleet though that interference would make things worse, then that's another thing entirely. Or if they were simply afraid to intervene, also.

But I don't think that Starfleet's policy regarding Solum will remain unchallenged on the show.
 
We don't know that; the beef of the Diviner is specifically with the Federation and it seems to be tied to enticing qualities that the Diviner admits the Federation does have (which is why he himself used to be pro-Federation and why he kept info of it from his daughter). Without knowing the exact cause of the civil war and what the Federation did and didn't do, we can't say for sure first contact with, say, the Romulans or the Ferengi would have been just as disastrous.

Moreover, there seems to be some truth in the statement of Ascencia that the Federation was "primitive". Obviously this is not literally true, but while the Vau N'akat likely were far behind in propulsion (warp), their AI/computers and their minds (with their telekinesis/telepathy and apparent enormous capacity to learn languages and possibly more) do appear to be advanced compared to what the Federation has at this time. It's not necessarily the case that they wouldn't have been able to resist in case Romulans or Klingons would decide to take their world, especially since the distances involved likely mean no huge fleets/numbers would be available for the attackers. Klingons and Romulans don't seem to be significantly, if at all, better than the Federation in cybersecurity, so their vessels may have been vulnerable regardless of superiority in firepower.

However, I take issue with the idea that Solum should not be "denied" the reformation that may come from a civil war. It seems Solum is totally devastated in the future and that few survivors still remain. I think most people would want such an "opportunity" to be denied. If that is (or was, in the alternate timeline) the reasoning of Starfleet then one almost has to applaud Asencia. After all, she merely seems to want to "not deny" to the Federation the opportunity of "reform" after their entire fleet has been lost and much of their Starfleet personnel has perished. So, why does everybody resist this "benign" action by Ascencia ("I destroy you for your own good")? I think the answer is obvious.

If we feel threatened by a possible WW3 we would also want to avoid that, regardless of what "reformation" may come afterwards (it could also be the end of the world or at least of any semblance of a civilisation). If some third party, able but unwilling to help, would then say: "nah, we'll let the killing go ahead, you might be the better for it afterwards", I doubt we would appreciate that.

If this was and remains Starfleet's policy regarding Solum - "why should we do anything to help, being destroyed might improve you" - then expect Gwyn to turn away in disgust, to some extent like her father did.

If Starfleet though that interference would make things worse, then that's another thing entirely. Or if they were simply afraid to intervene, also.

But I don't think that Starfleet's policy regarding Solum will remain unchallenged on the show.

The point I was trying to illustrate is that we saw massive hardships from other species going through civil wars on Trek (humans were among them). The Q for crying out loud did too.

Some species even managed to wipe themselves out as a result (which UFP allowed to do - it was mentioned as far back in TNG even).

Actually, if you think about it, SNW dealt with this in its first episode (which is how the Prime Directive was put into place).
Was the alien society on SNW better off for joining the Federation? Maybe. We aren't shown what actually happened to them in them in the 24th century... but I also fail to understand how Pike's offer to JOIN the Federation would have suddenly wiped away years/decades of their social problems (a sudden appearance by aliens might actually do the trick here towards shifting the attention towards something 'bigger' - but long term, the society has to change fundamentally, and the leaders they had in positions of power would need to step down as they were the ones who caused the problem too - along with the socio-economic systems they had in place).

Here's the thing though... that planet was nowhere near ready to join the Federation. They never went through any of the reforms that other worlds which were joining in the 24th century had to... in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if some kind of massive calamity arose on that planet after it joined the Federation (which is what prompted them to implement measures [aka entry requirements] to prevent planets which weren't ready from joining until they got their acts together.

No, civil war is never pretty... and if we were threatened with WWIII, do you honestly think I'd think/say 'go for it'? Of course not.

But, the question we need to ask here is: 'what (if anything) could have SF done to prevent things from going too far?
To what extent would SF have to get involved with Solum to avert a disaster?

SF likely didn't want to interfere because they feared they could do MORE damage to Solum.

We also do not know conclusively how many Vau'K'A'Nat survived. The Diviner thought he and his daughter were the only ones... and then we learned that at least 100 of the Order were sent after the Protostar (and there were seemingly others on the rest of the planet implied to have survived too).

Sure, that big city on Solum may have looked like a giant rubble, but that doesn't mean a LOT of Vau'N'A'Kat didn't survive or the whole planet looked like that.

The half of Solum that was pro-isolationist to begin with would REJECT SF's attempt to difuse the situation to begin with because they were biased against them already just because UFP was alien to them and it shattered their preconceived notions about Vau'K'A'Nat 'superiority' in the universe.

SF could offer to mediate disputes between the two sides, but if one half of Solum is AGAINST alien life to begin with, how on Earth do you expect of them to accept SF as a mediator or anything they say?
I can only see this fueling more conflict on Solum.

The Vau'N'A'Kat thought they were the only sentient species in the galaxy/universe and fairly advanced in some ways (computers/AI tech perhaps, but others, maybe way behind SF - but again, SF was never shown to use its tecnology to the fullest... otherwise, their systems wouldn't have been so 'easy' to hack into).

It wasn't until FC that this changed and what caused the split on Solum.

So, what do you suggest SF does?
Goes in arms blazing and puts the half of solum against alien life in detention? That would certainly spark a full blown war.

Hallf of Solum is anti alien life (pro isolationist) and wants to remain isolated... just what kind of compromise do you think SF could offer?

The only other option I can think of is that SF could offer the half of Solum that wants to join the Federation to migrate to UFP and leave the isolationists on Solum... or the isolationists leave Solum and isolate themselves on another planet and not bothered by UFP or others.

Though I think that neither side would want to abandon Solum as their home planet for good... and the Diviner wanted Gwyn to unify the Vau'N'A'Kat (this seems the only thing that may happen that could change the original timeline in which Chakotay was held prisoner and basically avert Solum's fate in the 'Prime timeline'- Gwyn might show them the footage of the massacre Solum caused as a result of their festering hatred... or, the prodigies with Gwyn would have to travel to the future through the anomaly, and (somehow) unify the Vau'N'A'Kat in that future... knowing that that future [grim as it may be in the interim for Solum] IS the prime timeline and will have rescued Chakotay (aka, SF may not be destroyed, but the half who want to remain isolationist may feel some kind of 'satisfaction' that SF suffered a great deal of lossess - or maybe the whole of Solum - even the isolationists - never wanted to take things that far, but it was rather actions of the few extremists - aka, the order - who effectively took things too far).

Dunno... I'm just spinning possible options here.

But Prodigy thus far doesn't seem like it will use time travel to avoid a civil war on Solum in the 'here and now'... and if it does, something will have to be done about that alternate future Solum in which Chakotay is held prisoner as well.
 
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Here's the thing though... that planet was nowhere near ready to join the Federation. They never went through any of the reforms that other worlds which were joining in the 24th century had to... in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if some kind of massive calamity arose on that planet after it joined the Federation (which is what prompted them to implement measures [aka entry requirements] to prevent planets which weren't ready from joining until they got their acts together.

[...]

But, the question we need to ask here is: 'what (if anything) could have SF done to prevent things from going too far?
To what extent would SF have to get involved with Solum to avert a disaster?

SF likely didn't want to interfere because they feared they could do MORE damage to Solum.

We also do not know conclusively how many Vau'K'A'Nat survived. The Diviner thought he and his daughter were the only ones... and then we learned that at least 100 of the Order were sent after the Protostar (and there were seemingly others on the rest of the planet implied to have survived too).

Sure, that big city on Solum may have looked like a giant rubble, but that doesn't mean a LOT of Vau'N'A'Kat didn't survive or the whole planet looked like that.

The half of Solum that was pro-isolationist to begin with would REJECT SF's attempt to difuse the situation to begin with because they were biased against them already just because UFP was alien to them and it shattered their preconceived notions about Vau'K'A'Nat 'superiority' in the universe.

SF could offer to mediate disputes between the two sides, but if one half of Solum is AGAINST alien life to begin with, how on Earth do you expect of them to accept SF as a mediator or anything they say?
I can only see this fueling more conflict on Solum.

The Vau'N'A'Kat thought they were the only sentient species in the galaxy/universe and fairly advanced in some ways (computers/AI tech perhaps, but others, maybe way behind SF - but again, SF was never shown to use its tecnology to the fullest... otherwise, their systems wouldn't have been so 'easy' to hack into).
Regarding the planet in SNW: I would hope the Federation made sure that no such problem would arise on one of their member planets, even if a UN-style intervention would have been necessary. I doubt the results would have been worse than what happened on the planet Tasha Yar came from, where the UFP did not interfere.It would cost them resouces though, as investments would have to be made and a de-facto military force may have been needed so that certain limits could have been enforced, even if only on stand-by as a potential tool without any actual use.

And there is also the point of supporting allies within other species (not necessarily members), which the UFP usually also doesn't do. I can think of at least one case were this did not appear to be beneficial: Picard's initial refusal (backed by the regulations, of course, as it is/was the official policy) to back-up Gowron (despite the other claimant being hostile to the Federation and being revealed to be a Romulan puppet, on top of being a personal enemy of Worf) IMO resulted in Gowron losing respect for the Federation and indirectly led to the brief Klingon-Federation war in DS9. It could have been much worse had Picard not found a loophole to kinda/sorta support him anyway, but that was only because a combination of cicrumstances allowed him to expose Romulan involvement. I question if the UFP's strict adherence to non-interference policy, no matter the specific circumstances, is wise.

We don't know how many Vau N'akat survived, but I think it was not too many considering how few people they sent on their last remaining ships and how angry the survivors are (I also did get the impression, from Ascencia's story and visuals of the planet, that destruction was widespread). The Diviner knew well enough he and Gwyn weren't the last (not only considering the survivors in his timeline, but also the existence of an as of yet untouched Solum in his new timeline), but even so he seemed to consider the fallout of the civil war (in his timeline) and the threat of first contact (in the new timeline) to be dire enough that the Vau N'akat might not survive as a species.

I'm not sure if Ascencia's faction was particularly xenophobic against alien life, per se. We know virtually nothing about the underlying causes of the conflict and the structure of Vau N'akat society. It could be they were very authoritarian and it was not the alienness, but the relative equality within the Federation (even though Earth, and I suppose Vulcan and maybe Andor, are likely top dogs within the Federation) that caused the spark.

As for what the Federation should do: that should depend on context, not on an iron rule of which no deviation is possible (though several captains circumvented the prime directive when it suited them). In any case, letting a civil war happen because it could make the involved society better potentially, would be a very bad motivation for non-interference.

If they genuinely thought interfering would make things worse, that's another situation (though in that case they were probably not right as the actual outcome was very, very bad for all parties involved).

But I suspect it may be more likely that, much like Picard with Gowron, they simply followed an ironclad rule and they may have left their allies among the Vau N'Akat out to dry - and to be slaughtered or converted, as the Diviner apparently was.
 
Regarding the planet in SNW: I would hope the Federation made sure that no such problem would arise on one of their member planets, even if a UN-style intervention would have been necessary. I doubt the results would have been worse than what happened on the planet Tasha Yar came from, where the UFP did not interfere.It would cost them resouces though, as investments would have to be made and a de-facto military force may have been needed so that certain limits could have been enforced, even if only on stand-by as a potential tool without any actual use.


Point being, we don't know what happened on that planet... and I for one would think the UFP would NEVER try to leave a 'military force' as a 'detterant tool'... because it doesn't sound like UFP or SF... and it would seem forced.

I was merely positing as to WHY the UFP introduced entry requirements for joining (aka, a planet needs to have a unified government, no discrimination, no caste system, and has to be Warp capable - there may be other requirements I may have missed, but these seem to be top ones).

Its possible that after the brief euphoric moment, some people on that planet started causing problems which could have led to a civil war.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if SF DID try to interfere and it caused more problems down the line for the society in question.

And there is also the point of supporting allies within other species (not necessarily members), which the UFP usually also doesn't do. I can think of at least one case were this did not appear to be beneficial: Picard's initial refusal (backed by the regulations, of course, as it is/was the official policy) to back-up Gowron (despite the other claimant being hostile to the Federation and being revealed to be a Romulan puppet, on top of being a personal enemy of Worf) IMO resulted in Gowron losing respect for the Federation and indirectly led to the brief Klingon-Federation war in DS9. It could have been much worse had Picard not found a loophole to kinda/sorta support him anyway, but that was only because a combination of cicrumstances allowed him to expose Romulan involvement. I question if the UFP's strict adherence to non-interference policy, no matter the specific circumstances, is wise.

Backing up Gowron was not possible. The Klingons were in the midst of an internal conflict - and SF has a strict policy to NOT interfere in internal matters of other societies,

Also, SF didn't exactly sit this one out entirely. Picard and the UFP were investigating how the Duras family suddenly become so powerful and where they may have been receiving the supplies from (which turned out to be Sela/Romulans).

If you recall, SF acted in a similar way during DS9's run. Bajor had some internal issues during those 7 years of its recovery, and on some occasions, it was pointed out that SF couldn't interfere in internal Bajoran affairs... however, some of those problems had an external cause, and they were directed at SF... so those were investigated and brought forth to the Bajorans as evidence when stopped/exposed and SF/UFP left it to the Bajorans to decide on what to do.

Same thing happened in TNG. Picard may not have supported Gowron, BUT, he DID expose the Romulan involvment (which Gowron DID recognize).

Also, Picard went on a limb for Worf who was playing a bit too loose with regulations at the time if you recall.

We don't know how many Vau N'akat survived, but I think it was not too many considering how few people they sent on their last remaining ships and how angry the survivors are (I also did get the impression, from Ascencia's story and visuals of the planet, that destruction was widespread). The Diviner knew well enough he and Gwyn weren't the last (not only considering the survivors in his timeline, but also the existence of an as of yet untouched Solum in his new timeline), but even so he seemed to consider the fallout of the civil war (in his timeline) and the threat of first contact (in the new timeline) to be dire enough that the Vau N'akat might not survive as a species.

The Vau'N'A'Kat survivors could still number in millions on both sides.
The civil war may have destroyed a lot of their Living Constructs and ships, which is why the Order appropriated the final 100 ships to look for the Protostar in the past.

We hadn't seen the full extent of the fallout on Solum, so we cannot be sure how many Vau'K'A'Nat survived (man, the name of the species is TIRING to type accurately) one way or another until this storyline is explored more in full.

The conflict was devastating (that's for sure)... but possibly not species-ending event.

I'm not sure if Ascencia's faction was particularly xenophobic against alien life, per se. We know virtually nothing about the underlying causes of the conflict and the structure of Vau N'akat society. It could be they were very authoritarian and it was not the alienness, but the relative equality within the Federation (even though Earth, and I suppose Vulcan and maybe Andor, are likely top dogs within the Federation) that caused the spark.

It was explained fairly well that Ascencia's faction was pro-isolationist. The Diviner himself stated they thought they were alone in the galaxy and universe at large. The arrival of SF (aka First Contact) shattered their preconceptions and caused a split on Solum.
Seems to me that the opposing party was fairly anti-alien (aka, xenophobia would enter the picture to a degree at least).

As for what the Federation should do: that should depend on context, not on an iron rule of which no deviation is possible (though several captains circumvented the prime directive when it suited them). In any case, letting a civil war happen because it could make the involved society better potentially, would be a very bad motivation for non-interference.

If they genuinely thought interfering would make things worse, that's another situation (though in that case they were probably not right as the actual outcome was very, very bad for all parties involved).

You realize of course that SF had no way to predict that initiating first contact with Solum could result in a civil war, right?
Basically, what SF did was say 'Hello, we are explorers from UFP which is in another part of the galaxy. We come in peace and were wondering if you might be interested in an exchange of cultural information perhaps?'

Solum's response: 50% - wow, there is sentient life elsewhere in the galaxy, and the UFP is an interstellar alliance that encompasses over 150 member worlds living in peace and prosperity, freely sharing resources, science and technology with each other?

The other 50% - what? there is sentient life elsewhere in the galaxy? What the heck? How is this possible? It can't be. I don't like the prospect of other alien species, I'd prefer to live in seclusion without being bothered.

Basically, that's what it boiled down to. In the end, the reciprocal half of Solum wanted to join the UFP, but the other half did not, and this caused the civil war.

SF opted to NOT interfere in what is clearly an internal conflict the Vau'N'A'Kat had and which they themselves had to resolve, because otherwise, what exactly could have been done?

But I suspect it may be more likely that, much like Picard with Gowron, they simply followed an ironclad rule and they may have left their allies among the Vau N'Akat out to dry - and to be slaughtered or converted, as the Diviner apparently was.

SF didn't abandon Gowron or the Klingons. They helped them in another way because there was an external influence (from the Romulans) that caused the problem within the Empire... this is why SF was able to act on that particular matter.

The conflict on Solum was basically something that arose internally due to Solum's perceptions (and personal sense of superiority) that they were the only intelligent species in the galaxy (and possibly the universe) and direction where they should go. In effect, they weren't really ready for first contact.

Usually when a species is already advanced and has FTL ships, it is presumed that they might actually be able to handle the concept of alien life and be able to settle their differences without involving others.

Maybe SF DID offer a solution in the way that they LEFT and allow Solum to reconcile its differences in time - that was in effect the only viable option for them to do.
The isolationists didn't want to join UFP... so SF thought the best thing to do would be to withdraw, because otherwise, doing something else probably would have caused further problems.

Would you like to be drawn into a conflict as a third party knowing full well that whichever choice you might make, someone will end up very unhappy with it in the end and blame you (permanently souring your relationship with them?).

I was presented with this dilemma as a kid when my two cousins ended up in a heated argument against one another... they asked me whom do I like better... I told them I have no real preference, but they weren't happy with that and tried forcing me to decide... so the best thing I could do was to tell them to work out their problem among themselves and leave me out of it - turns out, their mother and my grandparents all told me I made the right call and that they should have never brought me into their 'dispute' like they had in the first place.

Here's the thing... in that kind of a situation, nothing you do will probably give satisfaction to everyone... that's why 25th century SF withdrew... they could NOT involve themselves further because they probably knew that anything they do will have lasting reprecussions and could set a terrible precedent when it comes to the Federation at large.

Gwyn and the Prodigies are technically still not part of SF, so even if they DO make some kind of change, it could very well be on the 25th century war Solum (because that's where the problems started, and that's where Chakotay is at).

Its also possible the Vau'K'A'Nat also have few other internal issues to resolve first (which may have been festering), and encountering the Federation simply ended up setting it off (similar to what the Kyirians and the Vaskans underwent in 'Living Witness' on their planet - even they eventually figured out that they had to resolve their own differences and that the truth of what happened in history has to come out and they need to learn to live with it, however 'bad' it may have been).

Civil wars aren't pretty... I don't want this to occur in reality as its utterly pointless/sensless loss of life that arises out of ignorance and due to outdated socio-economic system we have in place which is full of outdated values/ideas, etc.

However, for Solum, we have to accept the possibility that this is something the planet may have to go through either way in order to eventually grow as a species...otherwise, they wouldn't be able to move forward and will be stuck.

Besides, The Diviner told Gwyn that maybe she could unite the Vau'K'A'Nat in a way he never could (right before he died).
Just how can Gwyn be expected to unite her species when there's (presumably) no division as of yet in 2383?

Or perhaps it will be revealed that the division on Solum existed well before SF made contact and that the opposing Vau'K'A'Nat in the future were just blaming SF because they were blinded by emotions.
 
Point being, we don't know what happened on that planet... and I for one would think the UFP would NEVER try to leave a 'military force' as a 'detterant tool'... because it doesn't sound like UFP or SF... and it would seem forced.
Well, arguably they do leave a military deterrant at the Romulan neutral zone. If one of their member states/planets would threaten to turn into Tasha Yar's home, I would hope they would intervene and it wouldn't be limited to rousing speeches.

And didn't Pike already basically threaten them to force the issue?

Backing up Gowron was not possible. The Klingons were in the midst of an internal conflict - and SF has a strict policy to NOT interfere in internal matters of other societies,
Of course it was possible - they just needed to change their strict policy, for example by making it less strict so an exception is possible when it comes to their most important partner/ally and the issue is a possible major change in their allegiance (allying with the Romulans instead - potentially a catastrophic move for the UFP).

A policy is not a law of nature; it is the result of the will of the people running the UFP (who, in turn, are presumably elected in some way). If they see reasons to do so, they can change the policy.


The Vau'N'A'Kat survivors could still number in millions on both sides.
The civil war may have destroyed a lot of their Living Constructs and ships, which is why the Order appropriated the final 100 ships to look for the Protostar in the past.

We hadn't seen the full extent of the fallout on Solum, so we cannot be sure how many Vau'K'A'Nat survived (man, the name of the species is TIRING to type accurately) one way or another until this storyline is explored more in full.

The conflict was devastating (that's for sure)... but possibly not species-ending event.
The Diviner seems to view it as potentially species-ending. If their society is largely destroyed, survivors may not have access to sufficient food and medicine anymore and die pretty quickly.

All but one of the Living Constructs were destroyed/used, according to Ascencia.

It was explained fairly well that Ascencia's faction was pro-isolationist. The Diviner himself stated they thought they were alone in the galaxy and universe at large. The arrival of SF (aka First Contact) shattered their preconceptions and caused a split on Solum.
Seems to me that the opposing party was fairly anti-alien (aka, xenophobia would enter the picture to a degree at least).
You're right about that, I had forgotten the exact statements of the Diviner. So they did think they were alone.

You realize of course that SF had no way to predict that initiating first contact with Solum could result in a civil war, right?
Basically, what SF did was say 'Hello, we are explorers from UFP which is in another part of the galaxy. We come in peace and were wondering if you might be interested in an exchange of cultural information perhaps?'

Solum's response: 50% - wow, there is sentient life elsewhere in the galaxy, and the UFP is an interstellar alliance that encompasses over 150 member worlds living in peace and prosperity, freely sharing resources, science and technology with each other?

The other 50% - what? there is sentient life elsewhere in the galaxy? What the heck? How is this possible? It can't be. I don't like the prospect of other alien species, I'd prefer to live in seclusion without being bothered.

Basically, that's what it boiled down to. In the end, the reciprocal half of Solum wanted to join the UFP, but the other half did not, and this caused the civil war.

SF opted to NOT interfere in what is clearly an internal conflict the Vau'N'A'Kat had and which they themselves had to resolve, because otherwise, what exactly could have been done?
That depends on what exactly happened. Did they have extensive contacts after the initial one? Was one faction encouraged to apply for membership, or at least to push that idea among the Vau N'akat as a whole? How did it turn violent, and what form did that take? Did they ask for help? I'm guessing we will get answers to some of those questions, at least Chakotay probably has been told about this (and Ascencia should know, too, though she isn't going to be objective about it).

Besides, The Diviner told Gwyn that maybe she could unite the Vau'K'A'Nat in a way he never could (right before he died).
Just how can Gwyn be expected to unite her species when there's (presumably) no division as of yet in 2383?

Or perhaps it will be revealed that the division on Solum existed well before SF made contact and that the opposing Vau'K'A'Nat in the future were just blaming SF because they were blinded by emotions.
It likely already has this division. I also don't think first contact is far off, though the recent events may either accelerate or postpone it, now that Starfleet is aware of the existance of Vau N'akat and especially of the threat that goes with it.
 
Well, arguably they do leave a military deterrant at the Romulan neutral zone. If one of their member states/planets would threaten to turn into Tasha Yar's home, I would hope they would intervene and it wouldn't be limited to rousing speeches.

And didn't Pike already basically threaten them to force the issue?

SF doesn't have a military detterrant near the Romulan Neutral Zone because that would be seen as an act of aggression (aka, neither UFP or Romulans can station a fleet in close proximity to the NZ - both parties have a sensor net on each side of their borders and probably some starbases in solar systems near the border).

Pike simply illustrated to the aliens Humanity's own history and how they were going down the same path if they don't change their ways.

Tasha Yar came from a failed colony... that colony in particular severed ties with the Federation on its own, so (officially), there was nothing the UFP could do.

Of course it was possible - they just needed to change their strict policy, for example by making it less strict so an exception is possible when it comes to their most important partner/ally and the issue is a possible major change in their allegiance (allying with the Romulans instead - potentially a catastrophic move for the UFP).

A policy is not a law of nature; it is the result of the will of the people running the UFP (who, in turn, are presumably elected in some way). If they see reasons to do so, they can change the policy.

Of course that policies can change since they are made by people, but I doubt this particular policy is one SF/UFP would be willing to change. Historically, both the UFP and SF maintained that the Prime Directive and non interference in internal affairs of a society has done more good than harm.

The Diviner seems to view it as potentially species-ending. If their society is largely destroyed, survivors may not have access to sufficient food and medicine anymore and die pretty quickly.

All but one of the Living Constructs were destroyed/used, according to Ascencia.

Potentially species-ending and actually species ending are two different things.
Vulcans and Humans had no external help during their wars and had to overcome their issues on their own - though for Humans, Vulcans made FC at the aftermath of WWIII (which killed hundreds of millions of people and eradicated most of the Earth's military and governments).
Essentially, WWIII rid Earth's general population of some of the symptoms of the problem they had and then they set out to fix what was broken and grow the heck up and change for the better (and fixed the planet in the process).

WWIII was portrayed as utterly devastating, and yet Humanity was able to feed and clothe itself (raggedy as they were) and Cochrane even modified a missile into a freaking Warp drive.
Solum was more advanced yes... but it is likely its in a similar predicament as Earth was in 2063 - so its possible there won't be any 'history alterations' here... but rather, the problem will be addressed in the future where Chakotay is held captive.

That depends on what exactly happened. Did they have extensive contacts after the initial one? Was one faction encouraged to apply for membership, or at least to push that idea among the Vau N'akat as a whole? How did it turn violent, and what form did that take? Did they ask for help? I'm guessing we will get answers to some of those questions, at least Chakotay probably has been told about this (and Ascencia should know, too, though she isn't going to be objective about it).

That's the thing, we don't know the exact details... and while UFP was known to push for membership with certain species, I doubt they would have done so and fueled a division that arose on Solum and turned into a civil war.

The way the dialogue portrayed things thus far is that the pro-UFP side effectively WANTED to join UFP, but the other side did not and wanted to remain isolated.

Given what we know of the Federation, I don't think it actively offered Solum membership (Ascencia's recollection of the events cannot be taken at face value due to her lack of objectivity - she portrayed UFP as the ones who destroyed Solum after all... and she also said: 'Why would we want to join a primitive allegiance when they were the ones who stood to gain?'.
This provides an indication that UFP offered membership to Solum, however SF would have done a full analysis on the planet's current state of affairs before offering membership - they wouldn't have done things blindly (especially if the division was already there).

It likely already has this division. I also don't think first contact is far off, though the recent events may either accelerate or postpone it, now that Starfleet is aware of the existance of Vau N'akat and especially of the threat that goes with it.

Given what we were told, the civil war lasted years... decades later, the Protostar appeared.
The Diviner also mentioned to Gwyn 'Solum is here, now, but it won't be for much longer'...
So, yeah, its possible that First Contact with Solum is not too far off, but the game ST: Prodigy 'Supernova' implies that First Contact with Solum is 'some time away' and that the Protostar itself was responsible for its 'demise').

Again, none of this would matter either way if its all part of a predestination paradox - so all events happened as they would have and the Vau'K'A'Nat would have NOT stopped anything (they just aren't aware that this was a predestination paradox).
 
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It’s a shame that you two do not write this show @Deks and @Wouter because I think that you both would have done a far better job at fleshing out the Vau N’akat and Solum than the actual writers did themselves. We have a load of non canon head canon back ground about this species and planet off you two now which the toon itself will probably never do justice to or even accept as canon. Maybe you guys should apply to write a spin-off Prodigy novel set in the times of the Vau N’akat civil war and make it a part of the Prodigy expanded universe? They probably would not accept fan submissions though, but you never know unless you try. They also may want to do a time travel episode one day to Solum, so I guess that this kind of novel may conflict with future canon.

I wonder who the Captain of the Prometheus was? Perhaps it is somebody that we know? We know that it could not have been Chakotay though? Unless it is ‘future’ Chakotay? Perhaps Chakotay on the Protostar was actually on a mission to put right what will one day go wrong? He might not have been transporting old earth dinosaur fossils to the Voth on a Federation peace mission after all. :shrug:

Surely though, all that has to be done to prevent all of this destruction on Solum and to Starfleet would be for someone to visit early 25th century Solum and tell them not to have a civil war? But paradoxically that could also have been the Prometheus’ mission. When this ship visits Solum in the future it will have knowledge of events about to happen on Solum - so the Prometheus made first contact *knowing* that a civil war was about to happen.

Why would Starfleet still send the Prometheus to Solum on a first contact mission if they knew that it would trigger a civil war? They have foreknowledge. Or was the Prometheus acting rogue?

This is a *very* important question so I shall put it in bold. :shrug:
 
I’ll tweet the Twitter Prodigy writers room and see what they say. I will let you know if they get back to me. :bolian:
 
It’s a shame that you two do not write this show @Deks and @Wouter because I think that you both would have done a far better job at fleshing out the Vau N’akat and Solum than the actual writers did themselves. We have a load of non canon head canon back ground about this species and planet off you two now which the toon itself will probably never do justice to or even accept as canon. Maybe you guys should apply to write a spin-off Prodigy novel set in the times of the Vau N’akat civil war and make it a part of the Prodigy expanded universe? They probably would not accept fan submissions though, but you never know unless you try. They also may want to do a time travel episode one day to Solum, so I guess that this kind of novel may conflict with future canon.

Dunno if we can do better than Prodigy writers to be fair.
They could also do the same and publish a novel that Paramount might deem 'official canon'.

I wonder who the Captain of the Prometheus was? Perhaps it is somebody that we know? We know that it could not have been Chakotay though? Unless it is ‘future’ Chakotay? Perhaps Chakotay on the Protostar was actually on a mission to put right what will one day go wrong? He might not have been transporting old earth dinosaur fossils to the Voth on a Federation peace mission after all. :shrug:

ST: Prodigy game 'Supernova' indicates the Protostar itself caused Solum's demise... however, we don't know how 'canon' the game is.
Its supposed to be set just after episode 10, and various things as stated in the game do not contradict official canon as of yet it seems.
Plus, the game implies First Contact is 'still some time away' in the future.

Surely though, all that has to be done to prevent all of this destruction on Solum and to Starfleet would be for someone to visit early 25th century Solum and tell them not to have a civil war? But paradoxically that could also have been the Prometheus’ mission. When this ship visits Solum in the future it will have knowledge of events about to happen on Solum - so the Prometheus made first contact *knowing* that a civil war was about to happen.

It was already mentioned as far back as TNG that UFP 'allowed' various races to become extinct because of their non-interference protocol... however, on a larger scale, the non-interference did more good than harm... because every time they DID try to interfere into internal societal matters, things eventually got worse.

Its also possible FC is initiated no matter what because all of what we are witnessing on Prodigy could be a predestination paradox.

Why would Starfleet still send the Prometheus to Solum on a first contact mission if they knew that it would trigger a civil war? They have foreknowledge. Or was the Prometheus acting rogue?

This is a *very* important question so I shall put it in bold. :shrug:

Because if SF don't send the Prometheus (or whichever ship that silhouette was supposed to represent) to make first contact, the whole timeline could effectively change for the worse or in a very unpredictable way.

To me, all of this smells of a predestination paradox (aka, everything we saw in the future with Solum having a civil war and in the present [including this latest massacre] was supposed to happen - tragic as it may be).

The ship (whichever it may be) makes First Contact because SF needed to FIND Solum (no one mentioned where in the DQ it was) and of course, because of what already happened, they realized the Protostar went through the anomaly to the futue and was weaponized against Starfleet [as evidenced by dozens of ships that were just destroyed in the latest episode], however, the Construct IS probably stopped by the Prodigies in the next episode before more of SF ships can get infected (SF is bruised/has losses, but eventually recovers).

They then probably mount a rescue operation that would retrieve Chakotay and his crew from the future itself... but despite doing that, SF might come to realize that FC, Solum's civil war which erupted, and everything that happened to date, needs to happen.

Essentially, the past influences the future, and the future influences the past type of paradox... it has no discernible beginning.

It may be a grim thing to contemplate that a planet needs to have a civil war to move on, but in Trek, this wouldn't be unheard of.
Humans, Vulcans and various other species underwent their own versions of those conflicts before joining the galactic community - we've seen Trek dealing with this issue on various occasions.

We were told the division on Solum was caused by a split between two factions as a result of First Contact - one which wanted to join the Federation and the other which wanted for Solum to isolate itself - and that this leads to the civil war, however, its unlikely that this alone is the sole reason, because its more likely a society like the Vau'K'A'Nat already has that division which could turn into a civil war - it was just waiting the right conditions to go off.

First Contact may have simply prompted the civil war on Solum to happen faster (and with potentially better results than what otherwise could have happened).

In essence, I'm saying that first contact or no first contact... Solum could undergo a civil war no matter what... only if they DO somehow change the timeline so that First Contact is avoided, the Vau'K'A'Nat could end up annihiliting themselves out of existence entirely, as opposed to having the civil war like they did and multitude of survivors that can move past old issues and repair the damage that's been done (with SF helping them to recover much like they had with Bajor - and then once Solum is ready, and if it wishes, it will be offered membership into the Federation).
 
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Dunno if we can do better than Prodigy writers to be fair.
They could also do the same and publish a novel that Paramount might deem 'official canon'.



ST: Prodigy game 'Supernova' indicates the Protostar itself aused Solum's demise... however, we don't know how 'canon' the game is.
Its supposed to be set just after episode 10, and various things as stated in the game do not contradict official canon as of yet it seems.
Plus, the game implies First Contact is 'still some time away' in the future.



It was already mentioned as far back as TNG that UFP 'allowed' various races to become extinct because of their non-interference protocol... however, on a larger scale, the non-interference did more good than harm... because every time they DID try to interfere into internal societal matters, things eventually got worse.



Because if SF don't send the Prometheus (or whichever ship that silhouette was supposed to represent) to make first contact, the whole timeline could effectively change for the worse or in a very unpredictable way.

To me, all of this smells of a predestination paradox (aka, everything we saw in the future with Solum having a civil war and in the present [including this latest massacre] was supposed to happen - tragic as it may be).

The ship (whichever it may be) makes First Contact because SF needed to FIND Solum (no one mentioned where in the DQ it was) and of course, because of what already happened, they realized the Protostar went through the anomaly to the futue and was weaponized against Starfleet [as evidenced by dozens of ships that were just destroyed in the latest episode], however, the Construct IS probably stopped by the Prodigies in the next episode before more of SF ships can get infected (SF is bruised/has losses, but eventually recovers).

Essentially, the past influences the future, and the future influences the past type of paradox... it has no discernible beginning.

It may be a grim thing to contemplate that a planet needs to have a civil war to move on, but in Trek, this wouldn't be unheard of.
Humans, Vulcans and various other species underwent their own versions of those conflicts before joining the galactic community - we've seen Trek dealing with this issue on various occasions.

We were told the division on Solum was caused by a split between two factions as a result of First Contact - one which wanted to join the Federation and the other which wanted for Solum to isolate itself - and that this leads to the civil war, however, its unlikely that this alone is the sole reason, because its more likely a society like the Vau'K'A'Nat already has that division which could turn into a civil war - just waiting the right conditions to be lit up.

First Contact may have simply prompted the civil war on Solum to happen faster (and with better results than what otherwise could have happened).

In essence, I'm saying that first contact or no first contact... Solum could undergo a civil war no matter what... only if they DO somehow change the timeline so that First Contact is avoided, the Vau'K'A'Nat could end up annihiliting themselves out of existence entirely, as opposed to having the civil war and multitude of survivors that can move past old issues and repair the damage that's been done (with SF helping them to recover much like they had with Bajor - and then once Solum is ready, and if it wishes, it will be offered membership into the Federation).
But this only makes sense if the whole operation is somehow covered up, which would be hard to do now that the whole of Starfleet and various other species are involved.

If it becomes common knowledge that the Prometheus needs to go to Solum in the future then it opens the timeline up to corruption. The Prometheus and its crew would need some form of protection because they could be targeted to change history by someone who wanted to destroy Solum and the Vau K’anat. If the Prometheus first contact is a butterfly effect that needs to happen, becoming a fixed point in time, then it means that this point in time inadvertently becomes one of the focal points in the temporal time war because it causes a resulting temporal incursion in the late 24th century with an attack upon Starfleet.

Would the Protostar have records implicitly stating that the timeline needs protecting as it’s crew had seen this future, or would the Prometheus be sent on a ‘hunch’ that it needs to still make first contact despite the disastrous implications. Starfleet should not assume that a civil war is destined to happen. The future is not written.

Starfleet sending the Prometheus to Solum with foreknowledge of it starting a civil war means that they are interfering with another culture *before* they are ready for first contact. The Vau N’akat may have had warp drive, or at least half of them did, but the civil unrest would mean that they are not ready for Federation membership much like Bajor was not ready for a long time.

Is there any tactical advantage of the planet Solum to the Federation/Starfleet? Do we know which other planets or species Solum is near in the Delta Quadrant? I assumed the Voth, though it is quite possible that Solum is near Borg space and was under threat of imminent assimilation when the Prometheus arrived.

I still do not understand why Starfleet would send a ship on a first contact mission to Solum if they knew that it would cause a civil war amongst the Vau N’akat.

It is stated on screen that the Diviner believes that Starfleet caused the civil war, this is the whole point of his revenge mission. Would somebody need to prove to the Diviner that the civil war was not Starfleets fault, or does it mean that the Diviner has some form of ‘justification’ in his actions? Of course, we all know that there is no *real* justification for what the Diviner is doing.

We have no proof that the Vau N’akat would have destroyed themselves without Starfleet, unless they want to state this on screen by showing the Vau N’akat and the Diviner an even worse future than that which they had already experienced. :shrug:
 
The writers are doing fine, undoubtedly they will develop the Solum storyline further and we'll get answers to most of those questions. I suspect they will want us to trigger debate/doubt whether or not Starfleet did the right thing (in the original timeline) or if it could have done better. They wouldn't be the first ST writers to challenge the Prime Directive, or at least play with its interpretation.
I certainly am not qualified to write for a television show, let alone one as complex (in execution and timing) as Prodigy.

A Prometheus class vessel made first contact in the alternate timeline of the Diviner, but at that time Starfleet of course didn't know anything about what would happen as they had never even heard of the Vau N'akat. In the present timeline, the influence of the Diviner and Ascencia may have changed all that and we don't know how Starfleet will act going forward.

As for the game, it is not canon so it can be contradicted by the main series. And regarding first contact, this is what happened: the implied (by the game) first contact by the Protostar didn't seem to be true for the main series. Instead, it was that Prometheus class vessel and Chakotay and the Protostar only met the Vau N'akat decades later, due to the anomaly they encountered.

@Deks : why would Starfleet help them to recover, given that the only survivors we for sure know exist ('The Order') hate Starfleet? Even if there are others, the planet would still be divided, possibly with sporadic fighting still going on, and the policy of non-intervention would probably still apply.

Since her father asked her to attempt to unite their people, and Gwyn also expressed a desire to save Solum in the game, I'd say she is going there and she will try to avoid the civil war alltogether. Technically it wouldn't be Starfleet making first contact, as long as she is going there on her own (with the crew) and without a Starfleet commission. If she is the only one going down there (with the crew supporting her from the Protostar, assuming it survives the season finale), they wouldn't even be aware of the existence of aliens (beyond what Gwyn tells them, probably with a very limited audience).
 
Interesting. Does anyone have an idea where Janeway and co are in this picture: https://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/pro-120-preview-05.jpg

It does not seem to be on the Dauntless, at first glance?

The picture of our favourite "emergency training hologram/advisory hologram" makes me wonder if she will make the ultimate sacrifice alone (or attempt to, anyway):
https://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/pro-120-preview-03.jpg

If the Protostar gets destroyed, I suppose they theoretically could still get another instance of the same vessel if they time travel to Solum between the time Chakotay arrives and sends the ship back trough the anomaly.
 
Interesting. Does anyone have an idea where Janeway and co are in this picture: https://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/pro-120-preview-05.jpg

It does not seem to be on the Dauntless, at first glance?

The picture of our favourite "emergency training hologram/advisory hologram" makes me wonder if she will make the ultimate sacrifice alone (or attempt to, anyway):
https://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/pro-120-preview-03.jpg

If the Protostar gets destroyed, I suppose they theoretically could still get another instance of the same vessel if they time travel to Solum between the time Chakotay arrives and sends the ship back trough the anomaly.
It also looks like they are all watching something on a big screen. There is some bright sun light on Janeway’s face so she could be observing a supernova or large explosion? The emotion also seems to have been depicted on these toons faces, they look shocked?

I hope that if the Protostar is destroyed, everyone is safely off. Though I guess that hologram Janeway may need to pilot the ship if Dal can not. But how would the EMH feel about this? We know that he was an active campaigner for holographic rights, but as long as she was not forced to fly the ship to it’s destruction then I guess that it would be an example of her free will and humanity. This hologram may have saved all of Starfleet, though I wonder why Dal did not go down with his ship?

Next weeks episode could potentially be quite emotional.

As for a replacement ship… perhaps the Protostar A can be an Starfleet Academy training ship with a crew of cadets who know how to operate it effectively? They can go on ‘live’ training missions a bit like when the Enterprise and it’s cadets were taken over by Admiral Kirk for a mission. Admiral Janeway may take over in a similar way.:shrug:

It might be hard to pilot and run Protostar ships, they may need specialist crews which Starfleet may not have many of, Dal and the crew trained themselves under the guidance of hologram Janeway but they are fit for purpose. Dal even did the Kobayashi Maru.
 
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