NEMESIS STILL LOOKS GOOD!

[HaventGotALife]

I think the lens filters date the movie. It was big in the early part of the last decade. I would love to cut that sequence out of the film. It doesn't really need to be there. It's a waste of precious screen time. Give me some time alone with Shinzon.

Another thing--really bad performances by the Romulans in this film. I think they needed a makeover. The ridges are too pronounced, for one. And the skin is a mess.

The Scimitar set lacks realism (all the stairs) and is needlessly large. It looks cheap. It isn't a space that reflects our character. Making it dark just seems cheesy, despite the fact the Remans live on the dark half of the world. It's a cliche.

As for the interplay between the characters, the best at making this appear to be an ensemble in the history of the TNG films. I like the interplay between Picard and Shinzon. The rest of the movie doesn't work for me.

 

[Smellmet]

I've just rewatched it and I'm still at a loss as to why everyone seems to hate it, sure it has it's problems with some of the writing and I found the pacing of the film to be quite slow in parts, but on the whole I think it looks great, apart from a couple of places where you can see the odd bit of cost-cutting (mainly the Scimitar interior) I think it holds up well - for me it's the still the best TNG movie, at least the stakes seem high in this one, and the the Enterprise E looks absolutely stunning - some of the shots of it look awesome, for example the shot when the ship approaches the planet where they find B4 - well up to modern standards, and the end battle is of course excellent.

Yes there's plenty I'd change about it, but I can say that about every Trek movie more or less

 

[SeerSGB]

I've just rewatched it and I'm still at a loss as to why everyone seems to hate it, sure it has it's problems with some of the writing and I found the pacing of the film to be quite slow in parts, but on the whole I think it looks great, apart from a couple of places where you can see the odd bit of cost-cutting (mainly the Scimitar interior) I think it holds up well - for me it's the still the best TNG movie, at least the stakes seem high in this one, and the the Enterprise E looks absolutely stunning - some of the shots of it look awesome, for example the shot when the ship approaches the planet where they find B4 - well up to modern standards, and the end battle is of course excellent.

Yes there's plenty I'd change about it, but I can say that about every Trek movie more or less

Are the stakes any higher than they normally are for Trek or Trek movies?

 

[Cyke101]

I've just rewatched it and I'm still at a loss as to why everyone seems to hate it, sure it has it's problems with some of the writing and I found the pacing of the film to be quite slow in parts, but on the whole I think it looks great, apart from a couple of places where you can see the odd bit of cost-cutting (mainly the Scimitar interior) I think it holds up well - for me it's the still the best TNG movie, at least the stakes seem high in this one, and the the Enterprise E looks absolutely stunning - some of the shots of it look awesome, for example the shot when the ship approaches the planet where they find B4 - well up to modern standards, and the end battle is of course excellent.

Yes there's plenty I'd change about it, but I can say that about every Trek movie more or less

Are the stakes any higher than they normally are for Trek or Trek movies?

Right, good point. Even if we focus only on the TV productions, how many times has each crew saved Earth and/or averted war? Nemesis felt like a Tuesday.

Heck, First Contact started with our heroes saving the Earth. It was only when the Borg went back in time to completely change Earth and no doubt a significant chunk of Alpha Quadrant history did the real story begin.

(now that I think about it, the other Trek movies where saving the Earth was the goal handled it pretty differently each time -- TVH was much more about the crew in a strange land, with the viewer [and even Kirk!] almost forgetting about the whale probe. TMP gets a pass because it was the first. STXI destroyed Vulcan, which gave weight to saving the Earth)

 

[Smellmet]

The stakes seem higher in this one to me because, 1: The Enterprise got a serious beating and was badly damaged (but still had a good go unlike STID) 2: A major character was killed. 3: It featured major political/military shift in one of the Federation's biggest enemies.

Compared to the likes of Insurrection where I simply didn't give a toss who had the planet in the end.

I'm well aware I'm in the minority but I think Nemesis is a great movie

 

[Khan 2.0]

i guess if NEMY had been released in 98 instead of Insurrection plus directed by Frakes itd have received more of a pass plus the same if not more BO

 

[Smellmet]

Exactly, by the time it came out, the TNG cast and story had completely run it's course, Spiner was starting to look too old to continue playing Data, Stewart was starting to look knackered too - in a strange way it had to turn out the way it did, they couldn't keep going the they were. If Stewart had played the role of Shinzon and Spiner Lore I think it would have looked at a lot more favourably

 

[Khan 2.0]

if NEMY had been out in 98 and done about 150m ww (Insurrection did 112m to FCs 146m) i wonder when and what TNG 4 wouldve been?

id have thought maybe sooner Xmas 01 as paramount wudve wanted to keep it going with TNG and as for the story i doubt itd have been INS (as that wouldve been missed out completely) so maybe the crossover that was talked about

 

[sttngfan1701d]

Nemesis was an ambitious idea that just fell flat, but there's still a lot about it that I like. I liked the cinematography. I liked the space battles. I liked the "darkness" of everything. It was clear they were trying to push TNG in a new place. I didn't like B4 or any of that crap though.

Unlike a lot of people, First Contact is my least favorite TNG movie. Insurrection is my favorite BECAUSE it "feels like a TNG episode." Generations was the best in terms of story and an extension of TNG, but I disliked the lighting changes they made to the Enterprise D to make it "cinematic," and I'm still pissed off about the D being destroyed.

 

[Smellmet]

Nemesis was an ambitious idea that just fell flat, but there's still a lot about it that I like. I liked the cinematography. I liked the space battles. I liked the "darkness" of everything. It was clear they were trying to push TNG in a new place. I didn't like B4 or any of that crap though.

Unlike a lot of people, First Contact is my least favorite TNG movie. Insurrection is my favorite BECAUSE it "feels like a TNG episode." Generations was the best in terms of story and an extension of TNG, but I disliked the lighting changes they made to the Enterprise D to make it "cinematic," and I'm still pissed off about the D being destroyed.

Agree with most of your points, I thought Nemesis looked good also, there was only a couple of the sets where I thought you could see evidence of cost cutting - even the Romulan senate which has been widely criticised on these boards for being too small I thought at least looked very grand like it had been there many years. I wasn't keen on B4 either but I can see why they took that path, Hollywood films just cannot leave alone with stuff like that, they always have to leave it open for a sequel.

Agree on FC too, I don't think it holds up very well at all to modern films, both in terms of sets and visual effects, and I never liked the time travel aspect to it, why did the cube even need to go anywhere near earth? Just go back in time then go to earth - when you think about it like that the whole movie falls apart for me and that is a far bigger plot hole than anything in Nemesis.

Insurrection to me is just 'meh'

Generations I would disagree with you on though, I loved the photography in the movie, its probably the best thing about the film for me, and it has helped the film age far better than FC. It was a shame for the 1707-D to go out like such a pussy though. It would have been far better if the Duras sisters had rocked up in a Vor'cha class battlecruiser, I could at least partially excuse the Enterprise going down then

 

[RunawayStarShip]

I never liked the time travel aspect to it, why did the cube even need to go anywhere near earth? Just go back in time then go to earth - when you think about it like that the whole movie falls apart for me and that is a far bigger plot hole than anything in Nemesis.

I've always figured that a Borg cube was too large to fit into a temporal rift that the Borg could generate, and the sphere would lack range and be vulnerable after going into the past. Although Earth would be unable to defend itself, the Klingons, Romulans, Vulcans, Andorians, etc. would already be space-faring and more than ready to destroy a temporal rift-damaged and largely-toothless Borg sphere.

When it comes to time travel (and other make-believe technology), it's just easiest to assume a limitation in the tech itself.

The plot holes in Nemesis tend to revolve around the actions of the primary antagonist, which are harder to explain away.

Insurrection to me is just 'meh'

Agreed. It does feel like an episode of the series due to the fact that it tries to be a morality play. Unfortunately, there are numerous plot holes that revolve around the actions of both the protagonists and antagonists that kind of obscure the message.

Generations I would disagree with you on though, I loved the photography in the movie, its probably the best thing about the film for me, and it has helped the film age far better than FC. It was a shame for the 1707-D to go out like such a pussy though. It would have been far better if the Duras sisters had rocked up in a Vor'cha class battlecruiser, I could at least partially excuse the Enterprise going down then

Generations still looks amazing for the most part (aside from the shots where stock footage of the Enterprise's flyovers from the series were used without first going through CBS-D's tender loving care).

The destruction of the Enterprise-D used to really piss me off, but after thinking more about it, it's explainable. The first thing the Duras sisters shot at was the engineering hull near the torpedo launcher. Assuming the Duras sisters were at least competent in battle (while wanting to toy with their vulnerable foe... otherwise, they'd just shoot the bridge or warp core), they would be trying to disable the Enterprise's forward torpedo launcher and cutting off the EPS conduits that link the warp core to the forward phaser banks.

It does explain the ineffectiveness of the Enterprise's first phaser shot, and why it would be trying to turn around instead of just pounding the bird-of-prey with a barrage of torpedoes. (Plus, someone else suggested that Geordi's VISOR could also be providing the Duras with information on how to best tune their own shields to defend against the Enterprise's phaser shots.)

 

[Smellmet]

Interesting theory on the space battle in Generations, never thought of it that way

 

[SeerSGB]

The stakes seem higher in this one to me because, 1: The Enterprise got a serious beating and was badly damaged (but still had a good go unlike STID) 2: A major character was killed. 3: It featured major political/military shift in one of the Federation's biggest enemies.

Compared to the likes of Insurrection where I simply didn't give a toss who had the planet in the end.

I'm well aware I'm in the minority but I think Nemesis is a great movie

You've pretty much described STII through STVI condensed down--poorly into one film.

 

[Smellmet]

I don't have a problem with that, the TNG cast needed to be put through the mill somewhat in this movie after all the dull frolics with the Baku, it genuinely felt like they were going to lose at the end, and they sort of did, really, I absolutely love that there was no magic technobabble solution to get out of the situation, they'd actually ran out of weapons so what does Picard do? Ram the ship - just pure guts saved the day, what an awesome ending.

 

[SeerSGB]

Never felt there was a real "Threat" at any time. The minute they introduced B4 I knew how Data's plot line was going to resolve itself and knew the out. And even ramming the Scimitar wasn't out of the left field or surprising, the minute he had Troi take the helm, I knew where it was going and rolled my eyes.

 

[Smellmet]

Maybe I'm just thick then

 

[Richard Baker]

All the TNG movies have places where I grab the remote and fast forward some. They also have moments where I hit the rewind and watch over again. Nemesis had some irritating elements, the Dune Buggy/B4 thing I wish they had not done. The first was a pointless waste of time and B4 cheapened the loss of Data at the end- having a backup droid conveniently blank and ready for the next film???
Let Data truly die and if the franchise did get another chance at the big screen then you could always reassemble Lore...
The SFX in the battle scenes wa great, but having the enemy ship invisible for most of it was rather confusing.

 

[Smellmet]

I quite liked how it was cloaked and you could just see it appear when weapons hit it, I loved it when it first decloaked briefly at the beginning of the battle when it knocks the enterprise out of warp, like it was hunting it down, it looked ace. Besides, we got to see plenty of the ship at the end of the battle.

I adore that battle, I like it as much as any sequence in any of the JJ films, and I'm a big fan of those

 

[Balrog]

I was never impressed with NEM visually. It came out in 2002 alongside LotR and Star Wars - two FX laden movie juggernauts. NEM looked like a tired, old 80's TV melodrama in comparison then. It looks even worse now.

Before Abrams, Paramount made Trek movies on the cheap for a quick return on their investment. The problem came when every other film franchises began pushing the envelope forward while Berman and Co. were still stuck living the glory days of 80's and 90's TV Trek.

 

[Hober Mallow]

The problem with "Nemesis" isn't the way it looks, the problem is that it's a terrible screenplay of a terrible story.