Mass Effect: ANDROMEDA

[Reverend]

So what was wrong with the ME 3 endings?

Some of us like them

Good for some of you. The vast majority of fans hated it.
It's more complicated than this, but in a nutshell the basic problem with the ME3 endings is that exactly zero previous narrative decisions had even the slightest impact on how the ending unfolded. For a game built on narrative choices and consequences, that's impressively stupid.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Good for some of you. The vast majority of fans hated it.
It's more complicated than this, but in a nutshell the basic problem with the ME3 endings is that exactly zero previous narrative decisions had even the slightest impact on how the ending unfolded. For a game built on narrative choices and consequences, that's impressively stupid.

Ah....yeah I've heard that but "shrug" it it what it is and yes it kind of breaks the game a bit but I liked the 3 endings for what they were. I always chose either the blue or green ending.

 

[Jeyl]

Ah....yeah I've heard that but "shrug" it it what it is and yes it kind of breaks the game a bit but I liked the 3 endings for what they were. I always chose either the blue or green ending.

Those are both horrible choices. From the point of view of all the alien characters, Humanity is now the dominant species of the galaxy by controlling these galaxy destroying machines. You think everyone is going to be ok with that?

And the green ending. That's basically saying that what makes us different is our greatest weakness and we must all be alike. This choice forces every single living being in this galaxy to change on a genetic level without their consent. All on the grounds of holographic hoodie wearing kid says it's the best option.

Even though I still hate the game as a whole (Yep. Not just the endings), the only reasonable choice is the red ending. With that, you destroy the Reapers, all synthetics and restore a proper balance between all the species in the galaxy. Also, Shepard survives.

And yeah. I hate Andromeda's ending for the same reasons I hate the blue ending. Humanity and ONLY Humanity is in charge of a galaxy altering facility that can transform planets into whatever they wish. If one species misbehaves, well, I'm sure we can make the planet a bit more inhospitable to live on. Cripes, it's like The Illusive Man didn't even have to do anything to ensure that Humanity would be the dominate force of the galaxy.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Yeah but EDI is my best bud I couldn't kill her in the red ending.

 

[Camren]

The original ME3 ending was just garbage. I was actually shocked at how bad it was. It was as if they produced the ending within 2 days of the game being released. It was rushed, made no sense, and was just bewildering in how out of sync it felt with the rest of the game. It's basically choose a colour, Shepard dies, then the Normandy crashes somewhere. Then our heroes leave the Normandy on an unknown planet and then...that's it. Thanks for playing.

The extended edition of the ending is a lot better, mind you. But I still don't like the Star Boy and his explanation of everything. The Reapers are brutally slaughtering all intelligent life to save them from synthetics wiping them out? What? Absolutely bizarre. Maybe the Catalyst was malfunctioning. Maybe it was a psycho/rogue AI that rebelled against its own programming and just wanted to exterminate all life. However neither of those were the case since the Leviathan's confirmed that the Catalyst was functioning normally! It just felt like a cheap way for such a great series to end on.

 

[Jeyl]

Yeah but EDI is my best bud I couldn't kill her in the red ending.

If she was still a holographic chess pawn, I would have thought a bit more about my choice. But the moment BioWare thought EDI "Had to be sexy", I was more than happy to go one path. Plus she's voiced by Tricia Helfer and I'm still not over her replacing Glynnis Talken Campbell as Kerrigan for StarCraft 2.

I'm telling you, ME3 should not have involved the Reapers. At least in a more direct sense. They should have taken everything that was unresolved in the previous games and focused on them rather than tying them to a dumb Reaper invasion. Time and time again, BioWare states that ME3 was the end to Shepard's story. It didn't need to be the end of the whole freaking galaxy.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Also wasn't there another draft of the story involving the Reapers and dark matter being the end of everything? Only in that draft the Reapers were not solely the bad guys?

 

[Skywalker]

Red ending or Refuse ending are the only endings that actually make any sense from a narrative standpoint. Unless you're playing a full Renegade pro-Cerberus Shepard and go Blue, I guess.

 

[Reverend]

My problem isn't so much that the consequences of whatever <insert favourite colour here> ending was undesirable, it's that after three games of shaping a character and the world around them...none of it mattered. The only effect you have on it is determined by an abstract numerical value (the war readiness rating) which is mostly blind to your decisions.

For me, it started going wrong right after the final Cerberus mission. That's when your character ceases being an active participant and becomes a passive participant. You no longer affect events, instead events just happen to you.

What makes this all the more perplexing is how this runs directly against what they did in ME2. There, just about everything you did mattered and the suicide mission organically incorporated it all and forced you to respond to the consequences in an organic way. I mean imagine if in ME2, you go through the relay, are met with an expositional VI that basically says "you're too late, the Collectors are already at Earth" and the rest of the game is just fighting waves of enemies.
You'd be left asking yourself "why the hell did I bother recruiting all those people and doing all of their loyalty missions for?"

If this sounds familiar it's because it's also what happens in ME1. You go to Iilos, meet a Prothean exposition VI which tells you the baddie is already back at the citadel. You fight through the mooks, make a fairly meaningless binary choice. Roll credits. Now see, that was fine because that game was act one of a three act story. It's primary function from a storytelling POV is to introduce the world, it's central characters and establish the nature of the overall conflict.

ME3 was supposed to be more than just a game in it's own right, it was supposed to be the third act story where all of the major threads from the previous games are resolved in an organic and satisfying way. Which, for the most part it does a great job with. The Krogan/genophage missions are the highlight of the whole trilogy IMO, the resolution of the Geth/Quarian conflict is similarly satisfying and nuanced and reuniting with that huge cast in various circumstances was a lot of fun (except Jacob, because: Fuck off Jacob) and you really felt like you got to know some of the core ones, watching them change and grow before your eyes (Liara, Tali & Garrus most of all.)
The game was doing great until the final hurdle and then it just face-planted right into the dust.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

My problem isn't so much that the consequences of whatever <insert favourite colour here> ending was undesirable, it's that after three games of shaping a character and the world around them...none of it mattered. The only effect you have on it is determined by an abstract numerical value (the war readiness rating) which is mostly blind to your decisions.

For me, it started going wrong right after the final Cerberus mission. That's when your character ceases being an active participant and becomes a passive participant. You no longer have an affect on events, instead events just happen to you.

What makes this all the more perplexing is how this runs directly against what they did in ME2. There, just about everything you did mattered and the suicide mission organically incorporated it all and forced you to respond to the consequences in an organic way. I mean imaging if in ME2, you go through the relay, are met with an expositional VI that basically says "you're too late, the Collectors are already at Earth" and the rest of the game is just fighting waves of enemies.
You'd be left asking yourself "why the hell did I bother recruiting all those people and doing all of their loyalty missions for?"

If this sounds familiar it's because it's also what happens in ME1. You go to Iilos, meet a Prothean exposition VI which tells you the baddie is already back at the citadel. You fight through the mooks, make a fairly meaningless binary choice. Roll credits. No, that fine because that game was act one of a three act story. It's primary function from a storytelling POV is to introduce the world, it's central characters and establish the nature of the overall conflict.

ME3 was supposed to be more than just a game in it's own right, it was supposed to be the third act story where all of the major threads from the previous games are resolved in an organic and satisfying way. Which, for the most part it does a great job with. The Krogan/genophage missions are the highlight of the whole trilogy IMO, the resolution of the Geth/Quarian conflict is similarly satisfying and nuanced and reuniting with that huge cast in various circumstances was a lot of fun (except Jacob, because: Fuck off Jacob) and you really felt like you got to know some of the core ones, watching them change and grow before your eyes (Liara, Tali & Garrus most of all.)
The game was doing great until the final hurdle and then it just face-planted right into the dust.

Actually I cannot argue with that .. That was well said.

Yes I like the endings, but taking those thoughts into consideration maybe those endings would have been better suited to a stand alone game.

 

[Camren]

ME:A is really lacking the wow factor for me. I stopped playing this a few months ago after about 6 hours of gameplay. I'm unimpressed by the baddies and none of the characters I've encountered are interesting enough for me to go back and resume where I left of. I think I had just visited the *new* species whose name I've forgotten and picked up one of their natives - whose name I've also forgotten. After that I just couldn't muster the effort to play. I might have another go at some point but this has none of the appeal of the original trilogy.

I dropped DA:I in the same way so I guess I'm just getting older and less interested in games compared to when the original Mass Effect and Dragon Age were released. Although I am planning to have another go at DA:I soon, I would like to have completed the trilogy, just for completeness sake.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

ME:A is really lacking the wow factor for me. I stopped playing this a few months ago after about 6 hours of gameplay. I'm unimpressed by the baddies and none of the characters I've encountered are interesting enough for me to go back and resume where I left of. I think I had just visited the *new* species whose name I've forgotten and picked up one of their natives - whose name I've also forgotten. After that I just couldn't muster the effort to play. I might have another go at some point but this has none of the appeal of the original trilogy.

I dropped DA:I in the same way so I guess I'm just getting older and less interested in games compared to when the original Mass Effect and Dragon Age were released. Although I am planning to have another go at DA:I soon, I would like to have completed the trilogy, just for completeness sake.

Did you enjoy all the janky animations in MEA?

I still can't get over the animations for some characters.... Especially on Prodromos..

 

[Jeyl]

Was anyone else annoyed by the amount of 'hero worship' there was from characters when it came to you as a 'Pathfinder'? I think out of all the Player Characters (PC) from all the BioWare games, Ryder is by far the most over-glorified and overrated of all of them thanks to the writers insisting that being a Pathfinder is the most important role in the galaxy. Just some examples of what I mean.

Kallo: It'll take a Pathfinder's guidance to see us through Heleus.
Ryder: I'm new to this. Being a Pathfinder, running a ship.
Kallo: You'll be fine.
(You know nothing which is why you're most qualified?)

Vetra: We've been failing for months Ryder. Now that we have you we have a chance.
(Based on what? What is it about being called a Pathfinder so important?)

Ryder: Take us down.
Suvi: You have no idea how long I've wanted a Pathfinder to say that.
(I don't understand why a Pathfinder was needed to fly the Tempest. Especially since Kallo was already ready and willing to. All they needed was a Captain.)

Vetra: Leadership wanted to strip her for parts, but I kept saying the Pathfinder is going to show up. I like being right.
(The Nexus Leadership wanted to strip the Tempest apart... The Tempest. The one of a kind ship that was meant for exploring the Andromeda galaxy. And Vetra was able to prevent that from happening by saying "Oh, we'll get our Pathfinder. Just wait!")

Ryder: They must have known these wouldn't last in these conditions.
Companion: How would they know? They didn't have a pathfinder.
(What the heck would a Pathfinder do? Say the wind is blowing too hard?)

​

The only reason Ryder is special here is because of her link to Sam, and nobody puts those two things together when it comes to what Ryder's role of a Pathfinder is.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Was anyone else annoyed by the amount of 'hero worship' there was from characters when it came to you as a 'Pathfinder'? I think out of all the Player Characters (PC) from all the BioWare games, Ryder is by far the most over-glorified and overrated of all of them thanks to the writers insisting that being a Pathfinder is the most important role in the galaxy. Just some examples of what I mean.

Kallo: It'll take a Pathfinder's guidance to see us through Heleus.
Ryder: I'm new to this. Being a Pathfinder, running a ship.
Kallo: You'll be fine.
(You know nothing which is why you're most qualified?)

Vetra: We've been failing for months Ryder. Now that we have you we have a chance.
(Based on what? What is it about being called a Pathfinder so important?)

Ryder: Take us down.
Suvi: You have no idea how long I've wanted a Pathfinder to say that.
(I don't understand why a Pathfinder was needed to fly the Tempest. Especially since Kallo was already ready and willing to. All they needed was a Captain.)

Vetra: Leadership wanted to strip her for parts, but I kept saying the Pathfinder is going to show up. I like being right.
(The Nexus Leadership wanted to strip the Tempest apart... The Tempest. The one of a kind ship that was meant for exploring the Andromeda galaxy. And Vetra was able to prevent that from happening by saying "Oh, we'll get our Pathfinder. Just wait!")

Ryder: They must have known these wouldn't last in these conditions.
Companion: How would they know? They didn't have a pathfinder.
(What the heck would a Pathfinder do? Say the wind is blowing too hard?)

​

The only reason Ryder is special here is because of her link to Sam, and nobody puts those two things together when it comes to what Ryder's role of a Pathfinder is.

I've done two playthroughs and tried different things and I have had about enough of this game. What you said totally annoys me.... But it happens throughout the game.

 

[Camren]

Was anyone else annoyed by the amount of 'hero worship' there was from characters when it came to you as a 'Pathfinder'? I think out of all the Player Characters (PC) from all the BioWare games, Ryder is by far the most over-glorified and overrated of all of them thanks to the writers insisting that being a Pathfinder is the most important role in the galaxy. Just some examples of what I mean.

Kallo: It'll take a Pathfinder's guidance to see us through Heleus.
Ryder: I'm new to this. Being a Pathfinder, running a ship.
Kallo: You'll be fine.
(You know nothing which is why you're most qualified?)

Vetra: We've been failing for months Ryder. Now that we have you we have a chance.
(Based on what? What is it about being called a Pathfinder so important?)

Ryder: Take us down.
Suvi: You have no idea how long I've wanted a Pathfinder to say that.
(I don't understand why a Pathfinder was needed to fly the Tempest. Especially since Kallo was already ready and willing to. All they needed was a Captain.)

Vetra: Leadership wanted to strip her for parts, but I kept saying the Pathfinder is going to show up. I like being right.
(The Nexus Leadership wanted to strip the Tempest apart... The Tempest. The one of a kind ship that was meant for exploring the Andromeda galaxy. And Vetra was able to prevent that from happening by saying "Oh, we'll get our Pathfinder. Just wait!")

Ryder: They must have known these wouldn't last in these conditions.
Companion: How would they know? They didn't have a pathfinder.
(What the heck would a Pathfinder do? Say the wind is blowing too hard?)

​

The only reason Ryder is special here is because of her link to Sam, and nobody puts those two things together when it comes to what Ryder's role of a Pathfinder is.

Agreed, although it's similar to past Bioware games in which the protagonist is elevated by virtue of a title just bestowed on them, e.g. Grey Warden, Spectre, Inquisitor etc. However in those games there is some level of accomplishment made to obtain their lofty title, and the hero worship is minimal. Ryder is made Path Finder just because his dad died and he passed the title down as if this was a hereditary right. Nepotism, no less.