Logan's Run First Watch

[Greg Cox]

If you don't like that, you must not like all the TOS episodes that did that. This IS a Trek BBS, btw.

The problem is that TOS had already turned it into a tired cliche by the time LOGAN'S RUN came along, several years later. And the fact that the entire city blows up because the computer can't cope with some contradictory data just makes it sillier.

Don't get me wrong. I'm irrationally fond of the movie too, and still watch it about once a year for nostalgia's sake (and, okay, Jenny Agutter), but that ending hasn't aged well at all. Honestly, the best part of the movie is probably the first hour or so. It goes downhill a bit once they get past Box.

And, yes, the ending in the book was completely different.

 

[DrCorby]

Don't get me wrong. I'm irrationally fond of the movie too, and still watch it about once a year for nostalgia's sake (and, okay, Jenny Agutter), but that ending hasn't aged well at all.

I was overjoyed to see her bring a young American werewolf home to her flat in the 80s. And heartened to find her a member of the World Security Council in Captain America: Civil War. *sigh*

BTW, if you're ever in Ft Worth, Texas, in the downtown area you'll find the Water Gardens, which includes the wonderful staircase down to a pool used near the end of Logan's Run as the way back into The City. (Pretty good pictures available on the Wikipedia page.) Beautiful and relaxing.

 

[Skipper]

The problem is that TOS had already turned it into a tired cliche by the time LOGAN'S RUN came along, several years later. And the fact that the entire city blows up because the computer can't cope with some contradictory data just makes it sillier.

Yep. Life if full of (apparent) contradictions. This super computer had been managing the city for centuries and this was the first time he had to handle that?
This is the conversation between Logan and the Evil Computer.

COMPUTER: Logan five ... did you find Sanctuary?
Words on screen now read: ASSIGNMENT 033-03, REPORT:SANCTUARY
COMPUTER: Did you find Sanctuary?
Words on screen now reads: ENGAGE MULTIPLE SURROGATION
COMPUTER: We will begin surrogation.
The Surrogates, six holographic images of LOGAN’s head, descend toward the floor.
Words on screen now read: ENGAGE SURROGATES
COMPUTER: Your surrogates are engaged.
Words on SCREEN now read: INTERROGATE
COMPUTER: Logan Five... you were assigned to find a place called Sanctuary. ... Report.
HOLOGRAPHIC IMAGE Of LOGAN’S HEAD: There is no sanctuary.
Words on screen now read: UNACCEPTABLE, ALTER INTERROGATION
COMPUTER: Unacceptable. The answer does not program. You were assigned to locate.... missing runners. State what you found.
HOLOGRAPHIC IMAGE Of LOGAN’S HEAD: All frozen.
COMPUTER: The input does not program, Logan. You may not resist.
HOLOGRAPHIC IMAGE Of LOGAN’S HEAD: An old... man.
COMPUTER: You must not resist, Logan. Did you find Sanctuary?
HOLOGRAPHIC IMAGE Of LOGAN’S HEAD: There is no Sanctuary. An old man.
COMPUTER: You broke city seals and went outside. Confirm outside.
Words on screen now read: UNACCEPTABLE
HOLOGRAPHIC IMAGE OF LOGAN’S HEAD: Old ruins.... exposed. There is no.... Sanctuary.
COMPUTER: Answer the question. Input contrary! Input contrary! You may not resist! You may not resist! Unacceptable! Unacceptable! Unacceptable!
Logan’s voice (emanating from all of them)
The six heads of Logan go out.
The noise and the light coming out of the screen Increase, as it begins to burst into showers of sparks and flame.
We hear mechanic sounds and gasps.
The computer goes haywire.
Logan restles with other sandmen.
One of them fall to the flor and aim at Logan.
JESSICA: Watch...!
COMPUTER: Logan Five ... Logan Five ...

It was clear through the movie that no one had any hard proof about the existence of Sanctuary, still the Evil Computer behaved like it was something like a Fundamental Truth of the Universe deeply hardcoded in its circuitry.

 

[Cyrus]

Yep. Life if full of (apparent) contradictions. This super computer had been managing the city for centuries and this was the first time he had to handle that?
This is the conversation between Logan and the Evil Computer.

COMPUTER: Logan five ... did you find Sanctuary?
Words on screen now read: ASSIGNMENT 033-03, REPORT:SANCTUARY
COMPUTER: Did you find Sanctuary?
Words on screen now reads: ENGAGE MULTIPLE SURROGATION
COMPUTER: We will begin surrogation.
The Surrogates, six holographic images of LOGAN’s head, descend toward the floor.
Words on screen now read: ENGAGE SURROGATES
COMPUTER: Your surrogates are engaged.
Words on SCREEN now read: INTERROGATE
COMPUTER: Logan Five... you were assigned to find a place called Sanctuary. ... Report.
HOLOGRAPHIC IMAGE Of LOGAN’S HEAD: There is no sanctuary.
Words on screen now read: UNACCEPTABLE, ALTER INTERROGATION
COMPUTER: Unacceptable. The answer does not program. You were assigned to locate.... missing runners. State what you found.
HOLOGRAPHIC IMAGE Of LOGAN’S HEAD: All frozen.
COMPUTER: The input does not program, Logan. You may not resist.
HOLOGRAPHIC IMAGE Of LOGAN’S HEAD: An old... man.
COMPUTER: You must not resist, Logan. Did you find Sanctuary?
HOLOGRAPHIC IMAGE Of LOGAN’S HEAD: There is no Sanctuary. An old man.
COMPUTER: You broke city seals and went outside. Confirm outside.
Words on screen now read: UNACCEPTABLE
HOLOGRAPHIC IMAGE OF LOGAN’S HEAD: Old ruins.... exposed. There is no.... Sanctuary.
COMPUTER: Answer the question. Input contrary! Input contrary! You may not resist! You may not resist! Unacceptable! Unacceptable! Unacceptable!
Logan’s voice (emanating from all of them)
The six heads of Logan go out.
The noise and the light coming out of the screen Increase, as it begins to burst into showers of sparks and flame.
We hear mechanic sounds and gasps.
The computer goes haywire.
Logan restles with other sandmen.
One of them fall to the flor and aim at Logan.
JESSICA: Watch...!
COMPUTER: Logan Five ... Logan Five ...

It was clear through the movie that no one had any hard proof about the existence of Sanctuary, still the Evil Computer behaved like it was something like a Fundamental Truth of the Universe deeply hardcoded in its circuitry.

Going through this thread I was thinking of rewatching the movie. But after reading that then maybe not.

 

[Steven P Bastien]

For one thing, the evil computer blows up for absolutely no reason. It's the biggest cliche of '60s and '70s screen sci-fi, evil master computers being manipulated or talked into blowing up, and this is one of the most arbitrary examples. It just happens because the script demands that it happens.

Even before this happens, Jessica and Logan just walk back (actually swim too) into the city with no hope of success. Worse, they drag the old guy with them to end up starving outside. By some miracle the computer blows up to save them.

It is an unfortunate weakness of the movie and the book ended in a completely different (although not necessarily better) way. It is somewhat like the lame endings to some Star Trek episodes. Time is up and they need to wrap up the story quickly. I think they just wasted too much time just having Jessica and Logan talking to the old man and looking at pictures, even though some of those scenes are great.

My view of why the computer blows up is that it was designed to blow up once the outside world was inhabitable. It tried to survive as long as possible by deluding itself, but Logan's knowledge forces it to know the truth. To me this is better than a raw malfunction or logical dilemma.

 

[Christopher]

If you don't like that, you must not like all the TOS episodes that did that.

I don't like it when it happens for no reason, or in a logically contradictory way. I don't like it in "The Return of the Archons," which is nearly as bad as Logan's Run because the computer immediately blows up as soon as Kirk tells it that it's hurting the Body. Landru has been monitoring everyone on the planet for 6000 years, and there's been a resistance for some time already -- this can't be the first time it's heard someone say that Landru hurts the Body.

In Logan, there isn't even that much of an excuse. The computer blows up just because Logan disagrees with it? There's no in-story justification for it. And it was already a timeworn cliche by 1976, not just from Star Trek as Greg said, but from multiple other shows and films -- practically every '60s show involving a computer had the heroes talk it into blowing its fuses, from The Prisoner to The Monkees. (To be fair, computers back then used vacuum tubes that were prone to overheat and blow out when worked too hard, so it's understandable where the trope came from.) But at least the protagonists there were usually trying to outwit or out-argue the computers. Logan wasn't even actively defying, just truthfully reporting what he saw, and the computer worked itself into a frenzy because the movie was almost over. The hero did nothing to achieve the outcome; the script just conveniently removed the obstacles for him and handed him a victory so it could pretend he earned it.

And the fact that the entire city blows up because the computer can't cope with some contradictory data just makes it sillier.

Yes, that too. Not only arbitrariness, but gratuitous excess, making it even more ludicrous.

Don't get me wrong. I'm irrationally fond of the movie too, and still watch it about once a year for nostalgia's sake (and, okay, Jenny Agutter), but that ending hasn't aged well at all. Honestly, the best part of the movie is probably the first hour or so. It goes downhill a bit once they get past Box.

It has some interesting aspects (and, ohh yes, Jenny Agutter), but so do a lot of other dystopian '70s SF movies. I don't think it really stands out from the pack that much. And it is damaged by its flaws (the laughably cheesy miniatures, the nonsensical ending).

 

[Greg Cox]

It has some interesting aspects (and, ohh yes, Jenny Agutter), but so do a lot of other dystopian '70s SF movies. I don't think it really stands out from the pack that much. And it is damaged by its flaws (the laughably cheesy miniatures, the nonsensical ending).

In all honesty, a lot of LOGAN'S appeal these days is nostalgia, at least for us fans of a certain age. I have fond memories of seeing the movie in the theater with my high school best friend, reading the Marvel Comics, seeing Sandmen and Runners at my very first conventions. (As I like to joke, I discovered fandom when LOGAN'S RUN costumes were still fashionable.). You have to remember, LOGAN was the big thing in sci-fi movies after the PLANET OF THE APES movies petered out and before the whole Lucas/Spielberg era kicked off. We were all excited about it.

That being said, the movie does have it virtues: As opposed to a lot of dreary 1970s dystopias, it's very bright and colorful with eye-popping art direction. Models aside, the hedonistic City actually looks like a fun and exotic place to live. And, despite being much older than their book counterparts, the cast is very strong. In particular, the growing rift between Logan and Francis has some dramatic teeth; Richard Jordan really sells his anguish at having to hunt down his best friend, who has seemingly betrayed everything they believe in for some crazy rebel girl. And the core idea is still a nifty one. And, yes, it was a good deal sexier than our parents probably realized when they dropped us off at the movies.

I actually think of LOGAN'S RUN as the missing link between the somber dystopias of 1970s and the return of comic-booky space opera adventures via STAR WARS. It's a fun, zippy dystopia that owes as much to Flash Gordon as Brave New World.

 

[Vger23]

My view of why the computer blows up is that it was designed to blow up once the outside world was inhabitable. It tried to survive as long as possible by deluding itself, but Logan's knowledge forces it to know the truth. To me this is better than a raw malfunction or logical dilemma.

That is actually one of the best "headcanon" constructs I have ever read. It completely works, and is entirely plausible. Well done...!

 

[Christopher]

In all honesty, a lot of LOGAN'S appeal these days is nostalgia, at least for us fans of a certain age. I have fond memories of seeing the movie in the theater with my high school best friend, reading the Marvel Comics, seeing Sandmen and Runners at my very first conventions. (As I like to joke, I discovered fandom when LOGAN'S RUN costumes were still fashionable.). You have to remember, LOGAN was the big thing in sci-fi movies after the PLANET OF THE APES movies petered out and before the whole Lucas/Spielberg era kicked off. We were all excited about it.

Hmm, I guess I don't have that, because I was too young to see the film in theaters (I wanted to but my father wouldn't let me). I knew it mainly as the TV series and the edited-for-TV version of the movie. So it was never some big theatrical experience for me.

I actually think of LOGAN'S RUN as the missing link between the somber dystopias of 1970s and the return of comic-booky space opera adventures via STAR WARS. It's a fun, zippy dystopia that owes as much to Flash Gordon as Brave New World.

Never thought of it that way.

 

[Steven P Bastien]

That is actually one of the best "headcanon" constructs I have ever read. It completely works, and is entirely plausible. Well done...!

Thank you. As you say, it's just my own headcanon which helps me enjoy the movie more by minimizing the impact of the weak ending. I needed to to this for myself because overall I love this movie. It has many strengths and inspires me to rewatch it many times, despite some of the weaknesses.

For this idea to really work, the movie ending would need to be well constructed. It would start with Logan coming back with a well conceived plan, that was reasonable and has a chance to work. Then he gets captured and interrogated through no fault of his own (i.e. he does not start screaming like a lunatic telling all sandmen to come capture him). Then the reason for the computer shutdown needs to be obvious. A subroutine takes over (maybe with a man's voice) and explains that the dome is no longer needed and life limits are no longer needed. Man has survived the apocalypse and can now repopulate the the earth (or some other babble) . If done right (i.e. better than I just explained), it could have the impact of a "Planet of the Apes" ending.

This should not end as a "Logan is the Hero" movie. It should end as a movie that shows man's self destructive nature, and his ability to persevere and survive another dark ages and one day rise to even greater heights. At least, that is how it exists in my head-canon.

 

[Ovation]

Well, all this talk about Logan's Run has given me incentive to wrap up my marking today rather than dragging it out over the weekend, so I can unwrap the Blu-ray that's been on my shelf for...months. We'll say months (never mind how many months--or how many other unwrapped discs are awaiting a viewing... ).

 

[Greg Cox]

It probably helps to think of LOGAN as a pulpy action-adventure serial rather than a "serious" SF movie. Even its episodic structure kinda back harkens to the old serials. "Chapter V: The Frozen Robot!"

Okay, now I want to invent chapter titles for every sequence:

"Lair of the Feral Cubs!"

"The Love Shop!"

"Laser Death-Trap!"

"The Forgotten City!"

 

[Redfern]

I remember when she was at the height of her popularity, ads for the movie on TV made a big deal of Farrah Fawcett "starring" in the film. In reality, her part was little more than a "walk on" with very few lines. For anyone curious, she appeared in the cosmetic surgery scenes, the "New You" ("Nu Yu"?) shop as an assistant to the surgeon.

 

[Christopher]

I remember when she was at the height of her popularity, ads for the movie on TV made a big deal of Farrah Fawcett "starring" in the film. In reality, her part was little more than a "walk on" with very few lines.

In that light, it's interesting that the TV show's Jessica, Heather Menzies, looked more like Fawcett than like Jenny Agutter.

 

[Skipper]

If anyone wants to rewatch it, this is the famous computer scene...

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[Greg Cox]

I remember when she was at the height of her popularity, ads for the movie on TV made a big deal of Farrah Fawcett "starring" in the film. In reality, her part was little more than a "walk on" with very few lines. For anyone curious, she appeared in the cosmetic surgery scenes, the "New You" ("Nu Yu"?) shop as an assistant to the surgeon.

At the time, I was very indignant on Jenny Agutter's behalf.

 

[DrCorby]

In all honesty, a lot of LOGAN'S appeal these days is nostalgia, at least for us fans of a certain age. I have fond memories of seeing the movie in the theater with my high school best friend, reading the Marvel Comics, seeing Sandmen and Runners at my very first conventions. (As I like to joke, I discovered fandom when LOGAN'S RUN costumes were still fashionable.). You have to remember, LOGAN was the big thing in sci-fi movies after the PLANET OF THE APES movies petered out and before the whole Lucas/Spielberg era kicked off. We were all excited about it.

And the soundtrack! Possibly one of the first movie soundtrack albums I owned. I listened to that LP of electronic music A LOT while reading STARLOG magazine for news about SF movies coming to my local theater... eventually.

For this idea to really work, the movie ending would need to be well constructed. It would start with Logan coming back with a well conceived plan, that was reasonable and has a chance to work. Then he gets captured and interrogated through no fault of his own (i.e. he does not start screaming like a lunatic telling all sandmen to come capture him). Then the reason for the computer shutdown needs to be obvious. A subroutine takes over (maybe with a man's voice) and explains that the dome is no longer needed and life limits are no longer needed. Man has survived the apocalypse and can now repopulate the the earth (or some other babble) . If done right (i.e. better than I just explained), it could have the impact of a "Planet of the Apes" ending.

Then the dead programmer needs to be hunted down in the past for a poorly thought-out plan. By blowing up the city (aside from probably killing part of the population), you've sent hundreds of pampered children, teens, and young adults fleeing into the wilderness, completely unprepared for survival there. They have no supplies, no medicine, no tools, no guidance, no idea how to build shelter, much less a new and just society that will avoid the mistakes of their past. Most likely, a "strong man" will emerge, backed by a cadre of former Sandmen, forcing the the frightened survivors into servitude.

A better solution would be the revelation of a hidden cache of survival gear and tools, with an advanced AI to wisely guide them along the difficult transition away from their unproductive lives into a new, growing society.

But that was beyond the scope of this movie. They just wanted the emotional surge of Logan & Jessica bringing new people for the old man to meet, while heroic music swells. THE END.

 

[Steven P Bastien]

Then the dead programmer needs to be hunted down in the past for a poorly thought-out plan. By blowing up the city (aside from probably killing part of the population), you've sent hundreds of pampered children, teens, and young adults fleeing into the wilderness, completely unprepared for survival there. They have no supplies, no medicine, no tools, no guidance, no idea how to build shelter, much less a new and just society that will avoid the mistakes of their past. Most likely, a "strong man" will emerge, backed by a cadre of former Sandmen, forcing the the frightened survivors into servitude.

Well, that's exactly what I'm trying to say. It needed to be ended differently. I said it would need to be a well-constructed ending. What is the point of letting the dome structure fall on half the heads of the few people left on planet earth?

 

[Greg Cox]

Even as a teen, I wondered what happened five minutes after the end of the movie, when all those wide-eyed young people realized that their entire social infrastructure had been destroyed: no more shelter, food, sanitation, health care, etc. And that they're totally ill-equipped to survive in the wild.

"Good news! We're all going to die of disease and exposure now!"

Logan and Jessica were probably stoned to death before the day was over.

 

[Professor Zoom]

"Good news! We're all going to die of disease and exposure now!"

"But, we can still fuck anyone we want, right?"