Ah, yes, I'd forgotten that.
Let's be real, could Captain Decker have pulled it off?
- Thread starter Parallaxis
- Start date
Maybe Spock is Scotty's real miracle.
I never understood this, even as an alternative option? You can’t really communicate with it, you can’t scan it. What could they have accomplished hanging around outside?
Or hoping Kirk has another miracle to pull out of his ass.
A number of things nag at me here.
First, we get the sense Decker lacks deep space experience, certainly compared to Kirk. What bugs me about this is why is an inexperienced officer being given command of one of Starfleet's best ships meant to go into the unknown? In "Where No Man Has Gone Before" we understand Kirk does have prior command experience with the reference to his "first command." So Starfleet didn't promote Pike and just hand the ship over to a neophyte.
Now we don't know enough about Decker's background so maybe he did have prior command experience. But I believe Scotty referenced an "untested" crew. Did that include Decker? If so then I go back to my initial point.
Whatever the case it does look like Decker is shaken to some degree when they encounter the Vger cloud. He has technical knowledge of the ship's systems, but he seems to lack intuitive instincts like Kirk has. Decker was inclined to play it safe, but he didn't seem to really get they didn't have a lot of time to play it safe.
I have no doubt Scotty would have eventually figured out their warp engine issues, but again they were pressed for time. Spock's arrival basically sped up the solution Scotty would have reached eventually. We have also seen Scott and Spock work together before so I doubt Scotty felt slighted by Spock's help, although he might have been taken aback by Spock's cold demeanour.
First, we get the sense Decker lacks deep space experience, certainly compared to Kirk. What bugs me about this is why is an inexperienced officer being given command of one of Starfleet's best ships meant to go into the unknown? In "Where No Man Has Gone Before" we understand Kirk does have prior command experience with the reference to his "first command." So Starfleet didn't promote Pike and just hand the ship over to a neophyte.
Now we don't know enough about Decker's background so maybe he did have prior command experience. But I believe Scotty referenced an "untested" crew. Did that include Decker? If so then I go back to my initial point.
Whatever the case it does look like Decker is shaken to some degree when they encounter the Vger cloud. He has technical knowledge of the ship's systems, but he seems to lack intuitive instincts like Kirk has. Decker was inclined to play it safe, but he didn't seem to really get they didn't have a lot of time to play it safe.
I have no doubt Scotty would have eventually figured out their warp engine issues, but again they were pressed for time. Spock's arrival basically sped up the solution Scotty would have reached eventually. We have also seen Scott and Spock work together before so I doubt Scotty felt slighted by Spock's help, although he might have been taken aback by Spock's cold demeanour.
Last edited:
Decker would have made quite a few different choices. He would not have wasted time in a wormhole but conversely, the time for this allowed Spock to rendezvous with them in the solar system. If Scotty had run further simulations and fixed the problem himself, would Spock have missed them?
Spock was more key to the solution than Kirk. Decker might have got them attacked earlier by raising shields but they were attacked anyway. It was Spock who solved the communication problem. Would Uhura have still solved it but more slowly? Either way, Decker would have gone into the cloud a bit later so if V'Ger did not attack when they raised shields, that might have allowed more time to solve the problem prior to attack.
Would Ilia still have been digitised? Probably. I think her feelings for Decker did buy them more time to investigate.
Overall, TMP is a fairly collaborative effort. I'm not sure McCoy added much more than Chapel but he is a good sounding board for Kirk.
Kirk does bluff quite a bit, and that doesn't seem to be a style that comes naturally to Decker. It's also not clear who his exec would have been - Sulu? He was only a few years younger than Kirk and was certainly experienced enough but he's not very forthright in TMP.
So from me, it's a definite maybe, as long as Spock was on board.
Spock was more key to the solution than Kirk. Decker might have got them attacked earlier by raising shields but they were attacked anyway. It was Spock who solved the communication problem. Would Uhura have still solved it but more slowly? Either way, Decker would have gone into the cloud a bit later so if V'Ger did not attack when they raised shields, that might have allowed more time to solve the problem prior to attack.
Would Ilia still have been digitised? Probably. I think her feelings for Decker did buy them more time to investigate.
Overall, TMP is a fairly collaborative effort. I'm not sure McCoy added much more than Chapel but he is a good sounding board for Kirk.
Kirk does bluff quite a bit, and that doesn't seem to be a style that comes naturally to Decker. It's also not clear who his exec would have been - Sulu? He was only a few years younger than Kirk and was certainly experienced enough but he's not very forthright in TMP.
So from me, it's a definite maybe, as long as Spock was on board.
They never established that they can't communicate with it. In fact, the reason they survived is because Spock sent linguacode at V'ger's frequency and rate of speed: ergo they communicated. What's preposterous is they never even attempted to decode V'ger's blip message or tried sending anything further to get a response. The film makes the crew weirdly passive throughout.
He never refers to the crew per se being "untested"; they just haven't had enough transition time with all the new equipment. He does refer to "an untried captain."
I would say that, maybe V’ger wasn’t equipped for standard communications which was why it sent the Illia probe.
Would’ve been nice to have in dialogue, but it wasn’t anything insurmountable to my enjoyment of the film.
That still doesn't excuse the crew for not trying. That's the point.
some of you need to use your brains. Be realistic.
Decker was in command of the Enterprise where it was going through repairs or whatever was going on. Transporter was being crappy. plus everyone on the ship were arguing with others on the ship even before Kirk got involved anyway.
plus if Kirk didn't get involved, then EVERYONE on the Enterprise would have died anyway since V'GER's energy blasts obliterated anything that tried to come into contact. If 2 or 3 Klingon ships got evaporated into space dust then what the heck makes you think Decker by himself would survive? End of Enterprise, then there would be no effin movie
Decker was in command of the Enterprise where it was going through repairs or whatever was going on. Transporter was being crappy. plus everyone on the ship were arguing with others on the ship even before Kirk got involved anyway.
plus if Kirk didn't get involved, then EVERYONE on the Enterprise would have died anyway since V'GER's energy blasts obliterated anything that tried to come into contact. If 2 or 3 Klingon ships got evaporated into space dust then what the heck makes you think Decker by himself would survive? End of Enterprise, then there would be no effin movie
The writers had the power to do whatever they wanted to do with Decker. He comes off poorly because the writers wanted him to come off poorly.
The only reason they "won" is because Kirk wouldn't put his shields up.
Kirk said that he did not want to be provocative, but honestly, those shields would not have done a damn thing.,
Kirk said that he did not want to be provocative, but honestly, those shields would not have done a damn thing.,
They did stop V’ger’s first volley.
A warning shot across their bow.
When discussing a work of fiction featuring a sentient mechanical alien vessel the size of Long Island?
The new screens held.
Too fourth-wall.
Sometimes, the fourth wall is all we have. In all honesty, there should’ve been engineers from all over the Federation, crawling all over the Enterprise.
The movie gives us Spock and Scott, so I roll with it.
Similar threads
