Is it me or does DS9 have scale issues?

[Gotham Central]

I love DS9. Its without a doubt my favorite Trek series. But from a VFX perspective, DS9 has more problems with scale than any other trek series. This is somewhat understandable given the sheer number and diversity of the ships shown but some of the issuse are pretty glaring.

For instance, the Defiant is all over the place in terms of its size (and not just relative to other ships). It seems to have scale issues all on its own. The same is true with the the station. The Runabout pads seem to take up quite a bit of space in Habitat ring, yet they also seem to be small enough for windows to fit beneath them. The scale issues only get worse when you put ships next to it. For instance, the Defiant looks fairly large when docked to the station. Yet a Galaxy Class starship, though large does not seem to take up nearly enough space.

The wormhole must grow depending on the size of the object traversing the event horizion. That is the only explanation for the fact that sometimes a runabout fills the entire opening, yet other times, entire fleets of ships pour through.

Has anyone else noticed this?

 

[Dane_Whitman]

I've noticed this a few times. The biggest scale issue I noticed is in The Way of The Warrior, when the Defiant does that little 'modified tractor beam' trick to deflect the disruptors of a Klingon Vor'Cha class attack cruiser. I mean, the Vor'Cha looks about the same size as the Defiant!

TNG also had some scale issues, particularly when it comes to the Romulan Warbird. It was introduced as a massive titan dwarfing the Galaxy-class, but later it seemed about the same size.

 

[Photon]

Yep it does, big time. The one's mentioned and:

Probable Cause.

A Warbird (larger than a Galaxy) decloaks above Garak and Odo and runabout looks the size of a Defiant class compared to the Warbird. Crap

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/3x20/improbablecause_478.jpg

 

[Photon]

I love DS9. Its without a doubt my favorite Trek series. But from a VFX perspective, DS9 has more problems with scale than any other trek series. This is somewhat understandable given the sheer number and diversity of the ships shown but some of the issuse are pretty glaring.

For instance, the Defiant is all over the place in terms of its size (and not just relative to other ships). It seems to have scale issues all on its own. The same is true with the the station. The Runabout pads seem to take up quite a bit of space in Habitat ring, yet they also seem to be small enough for windows to fit beneath them. The scale issues only get worse when you put ships next to it. For instance, the Defiant looks fairly large when docked to the station. Yet a Galaxy Class starship, though large does not seem to take up nearly enough space.

The wormhole must grow depending on the size of the object traversing the event horizion. That is the only explanation for the fact that sometimes a runabout fills the entire opening, yet other times, entire fleets of ships pour through.

Has anyone else noticed this?

I 'member when Dax was mining the WH then turning on the mines, she had to traverse a large swath to activate it and then Carddy/Rommie fleets go in and they take up the enire mouth, nearly.

What ev.

 

[Thor Damar]

Another good example from DS9's Defiant.

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/3x09/defiant_552.jpg

(This scale is kind of what I would expect given the disparities in crew complements between the two ships, Defiant with 50 crewpersons, the Galor with 600)

I always thought that the Galor class was bigger in size than has been shown on screen.

 

[Cyke101]

I concur that DS9 probably had the worst scaling issues of all the Trek shows. The Defiant was tiny compared to the Lakota (she's definitely not 1/4th the size of an Excelsior!), and some Birds of Prey were the size of shuttlecraft compared to Vorcha class vessels.

 

[Gil T.Azell]

I've noticed this a few times. The biggest scale issue I noticed is in The Way of The Warrior, when the Defiant does that little 'modified tractor beam' trick to deflect the disruptors of a Klingon Vor'Cha class attack cruiser. I mean, the Vor'Cha looks about the same size as the Defiant!

TNG also had some scale issues, particularly when it comes to the Romulan Warbird. It was introduced as a massive titan dwarfing the Galaxy-class, but later it seemed about the same size.

They may be quite a distance away from each other here 1/2 mile or more maybe?
(Just a thought)

 

[Daneel]

It usually didn't bother me too much, but I did tend to notice it a bit more after seeing First Contact (in which the Defiant appears a great deal smaller than the Enterprise-E, indicating that it was supposed to be a smaller-than-average vessel).

 

[Lateralus]

I've noticed this a few times. The biggest scale issue I noticed is in The Way of The Warrior, when the Defiant does that little 'modified tractor beam' trick to deflect the disruptors of a Klingon Vor'Cha class attack cruiser. I mean, the Vor'Cha looks about the same size as the Defiant! .

You do know that from a given vantage point, an object will seem significantly larger the closer it is when compared to objects in the background, right?

I mean, this is pretty much basic human knowledge...

 

[Myasishchev]

My favorite scaling issue is in the opening of Voyager. Judging by the reflection on the rings of Not-Saturn, Voyager is about 5000km long. And really, that's the only one that ever truly bothered me, probably because they showed it about 200 times.

I think if DS9 had the most scaling issues, it was because of the sheer number of scenes and ships. I don't think it was a failing peculiar to the series, outside of that context.

 

[SonicRanger]

There was nothing as bad as this:

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s1/1x10/battle162.jpg
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s1/1x10/battle186.jpg

 

[Dane_Whitman]

You do know that from a given vantage point, an object will seem significantly larger the closer it is when compared to objects in the background, right?

I mean, this is pretty much basic human knowledge...

I know all about that. But watch the episode. The Defiant sweeps by the camera, followed by the Vor'cha class. Because the cruiser is being tractored by the Defiant, they pass by the camera at the same distance, which makes the scale problem quite apparent.

 

[Praetor]

There was nothing as bad as this:

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s1/1x10/battle162.jpg
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s1/1x10/battle186.jpg

What? The Stargazer is just way in the foreground in both shots.

And it's worth keeping in mind that the producers had not settled on a size for the Defiant until around season five or six.

 

[Myasishchev]

I just always assumed the Constellation class was really big.

 

[Praetor]

Not if it re-uses Constitution class scale components.

 

[Myasishchev]

It must not. It's clearly half the size of a Galaxy.

I believe what we're seeing is the effect of either shields or the warp field, bending light to create the illusion that the Stargazer is larger or closer. We may also assume this is what's happening with the Defiant, with the added complication of a cloaking device.

(Doesn't explain the non-curved tractor beam though does it? )

Edit: and hey, is that tractor beam coming out of the E's torpedo bay?

 

[Praetor]

A good explanation for me! Now fix the others!

Yes I think they accidentally put the tractor beam at the torpedo launcher. IIRC, the later D blueprints placed a tractor beam slightly below it. And hey, it's still not as bad as when a phaser came out in 'Darmok' I believe it was.