Excelsior class

[trevanian]

I don't have the AC issue in question, but I don't think the CINEFEX on SFS mentions that fact (though I've almost always felt pretty sure they are based on the same construction.)

As to the idea that there was a THIRD miniature ... no, pretty sure that is not the case. The interior miniature was actually used for the close exterior shots, just with exterior cladding added over what was supposed to be unseen structural stuff. In fact, they were pretty proud of that fact (and I'm sure that IS documented in the CINEFEX article.)

Errors about size differences probably relate to shooting models that are not anywhere close in scale to one another, plus ILM's inclination to make shots that look good regardless of continuity.

 

[Bill Morris]

Here's a clipped portion of the screencap of the MSD from Trekcore, not clear enough to answer the question of decks. But the altered published version, a reduced copy of which LiChiu posted above, is what is causing trouble and what some people are insisting is right. I remeasured the largest avaialable version of that, and going by pixels, assuming 470 meters in length for the refit (3 more than for the first Excelsior), measuring a group of ten deck lines shows and average scale of 20.8 meters (6'7") floor to floor. Yet we can see that even the turbolift doorway clearance is at least that much, since Alan Ruck is 6' tall and didn't have to duck coming out of the turbolift on deck 15. Besides, 6'7 is just a ridiculous figure. That's the problem. And I can spot several clear differences between that and the screencap, despite the poor resolution.

Also, a minute before the distress call, we could see a turbolift chart on the back wall of the turbolift, which seems to indicate normal deck pitch rather than these outlandish claims.

 

[Timo]

Ah, recladding of the interior model would indeed best explain the sawtooth-plated-over exterior shot in real world terms. It's great to have knowledgeable people here!

As regards the E-B, though, I must point out that the deck on which Harriman, Chekov and Scotty are standing is at least one deck higher than the one where Kirk was working. And Demora says that decks 13-15 had containment fields in place, while the trio inhabits the highermost of the exposed decks.

So probably these guys are standing on Deck 13 or Deck 14, which makes the total deck count even lower. (Actually, it pretty nicely fits the idea that every two decks on that 34-deck MSD reproduction stand for one "real" deck! Seventeen decks total would be a good match for the hull breach scene.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Bill Morris]

Yeah, I'm getting a lot of static about the 17-deck scenario elsewhere, but I when I tried blocking in the turboshaft chart seen in the rear of the turbolift car, it would only work with the 17-deck version, which gives it deck pitch nearly identical to that of the Ent-D, like it or not.

And the doorway where those three exited the turbolift was surprisingly high, keeping in mind that Alan Ruck is 6' tall.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Timo said:
Ah, recladding of the interior model would indeed best explain the sawtooth-plated-over exterior shot in real world terms. It's great to have knowledgeable people here!

As regards the E-B, though, I must point out that the deck on which Harriman, Chekov and Scotty are standing is at least one deck higher than the one where Kirk was working. And Demora says that decks 13-15 had containment fields in place, while the trio inhabits the highermost of the exposed decks.

So probably these guys are standing on Deck 13 or Deck 14, which makes the total deck count even lower. (Actually, it pretty nicely fits the idea that every two decks on that 34-deck MSD reproduction stand for one "real" deck! Seventeen decks total would be a good match for the hull breach scene.)

Timo Saloniemi

One thing that might put this all into a different light.

What if the primary hull decks are identified by LETTERS and the secondary-hull deck count (including the neck?) are by NUMBERS?

This means that the lowermost primary hull regions, although on the same LEVEL as the secondary hulls, might be identified differently.

So "deck 13" might be 17 levels (or so) below the bridge... with "deck 1" being the highest level of the neck, while still being several levels below the bridge.

 

[Blip]

Cary L. Brown said:
What if the primary hull decks are identified by LETTERS and the secondary-hull deck count (including the neck?) are by NUMBERS?

Unfortunately I don't have a screencap handy for this, but Generations shows that the turbolift doors on the bridge both have signage listing it as Deck "01"

 

[Timo]

As long as we're fishing...

If we want a deck count at least as high as on Kirk's ship, we might also consider the possibility that the decks are of "standard" height and numbered in an orderly fashion from top to bottom - but that the neck contains no numbered decks, just partitions that look like decks in the MSD but do not enjoy personnel access and do not warrant regular numbers.

OTOH, if Starfleet is in any particular habit about deck numbers, it's assigning a maximal number of them or more for a given ship! Consider for example the Vico from "Hero Worship", with at least fifteen decks in the dialogue, when even the high-end size estimates (that is, about thrice the Encyclopedia size) would barely make her high enough to have fifteen full-height decks if the thin pylons between the hulls had decks, too.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[B.J.]

Just as an additional data point, aircraft carrier decks (Nimitz class, at least) are numbered out from the main flight deck. Going down, you have 2,3,4..., and going up, you have 02,03,04,...,010,011...

So using that in combination with Cary's idea and the "01" on the bridge, the saucer could be 01,02,03...., and the neck/engineering hull could be 1,2,3,....

It wouldn't be the first time they used a different numbering system throughout Trek's history.

 

[Bill Morris]

A variation on Timo's idea comes out like this with these two deck pitches, by having some decks open and the space between (where a deck could otherwise be) or access decks with mesh floors not numbered, still placing deck 14 where they were seen standing, viewed from outside through the hull breach. The lower one is with deck pitch not much more than 3.5 meters. The orange bars are placed on every fifth deck for clarity.

I tried it with the 27-deck scenario (3-meter deck pitch), but no luck. I'll give that another shot, though.

Are we getting silly enough, now?

 

[Bill Morris]

It's a bit complicated, but the 3-meter deck pitch can be made to work if the saucer rim is 20 feet tall outside with hull thickness of 9 inches, disregarding the clues in GEN, which makes it come out like this:

 

[Praetor]

It looks like you have the deflector a bit low to my eye on several versions, compared with the position of the secondary hull 'bulges' but it could just be me. Otherwise, looks nice!