Enterprise Evolution from TOS to TMP

[yotsuya]

More updates. I found a couple of good photos that let me get the major lines accurate for the Nacelles. I also refined the refit neck and impulse engines. Getting very close to having the refit lines done. I also found a couple of better photos of the Phase II so I can finish off the details as they finished the model. It was finished, though it was not rigged for lights. It was painted and the markings applied. It is funny how just about every attempt to render or build it is wrong. Only David Shaw seems to have gotten it right. But I am focusing on how the model was finished and that seems to vary in some ways from the drawings.

 

[yotsuya]

Some progress today, but not much to share in the way of drawings. I had already determined that the model has its nacelles lower than what Kimble had drawn. I determined today that he had the correct pylon angle and that the nacelles are slightly closer together. It creates a nacelle pylon join that matches the photos so everything is lining up.

I also realized that my scale is very amusing for this set of drawings (at least for the 8 foot model). The model was built at the scale of 1" = 10' so the model of a 1000 foot ship is 100 inches long. Well, in my drawing it is 4000 pixels so I can easily make a scale to both the starship and the studio model. Kimble so far has been a good guide to the shape and structure with small tweaks to line it up. I'm checked with all the major drawings, but so far none has lined up to match what I'm seeing in the photos. Jackill's Ent A comes the closes, but he has the pylons at the wrong angle. And that is checked form about a dozen fore or aft images where I could determine the pylon angle and then I dumped the outlying ones to narrow down to 3 that were very very close. I think I'm going to finish the Taylor refit first. And lacking great photo references for the Phase II pylons, I intend to use the same pylon angle. How it attached at both ends looks to be the same as for the Taylor refit and how the nacelles lines up appears to be the same as well. I'll have to see if that fits with the few photos available of the model so that will take some experimenting.

 

[publiusr]

I hope you do a blink comparator version of yours and Kimble's plus other versions as an Evolution.

 

[yotsuya]

I like doing overlays. I might do a couple. It is not very useful between the TOS and the later refits because the saucer/secondary orientation changes so much. But it will be pretty cool to see the Phase II, Taylor refit, and TMP refit.

 

[Maurice]

I also found a couple of better photos of the Phase II so I can finish off the details as they finished the model. It was finished, though it was not rigged for lights. It was painted and the markings applied.

I've never seen a photo of the TV model "finished". Is that what you mean?

 

[yotsuya]

Today I turned my attention to the secondary hull. The drawings of all three versions (Phase II, Taylor refit, TMP refit) all show some curve to the aft end of the secondary hull. That was troubling because I have a nice shot of the bottom of ship (undated but before Star Trek IV) that shows the sides of the secondary hull have no such curve. I further checked the side views of both the Phase II and refit (as in photos) and they matched the sides of the secondary hull. So while the drawings show a curve in then flare out around the hanger, the models were not built that way. Jefferies desire for a curvier ship is again denied.

 

[yotsuya]

I've never seen a photo of the TV model "finished". Is that what you mean?

Finished is a relative term. It was never wired for lights, but it was painted and all the markings applied. Most of the recreations give it a deflector somewhat in the style of the TOS version. The one picture that shows that area shows a recessed deflector like the movie refit, but with a small dome in the middle. And while you can see the dome on the front of the nacelles (elongated dome that is), the photos are B&W so there is no indication of color except for one photo from behind on an effects mount. Most of the photos show the model in various stages of construction and I've only found 3 where it appears to be complete. But they are just enough to get the details of the build to render for this project when combined with the drawings.

 

[Maurice]

Finished is a relative term. It was never wired for lights, but it was painted and all the markings applied. Most of the recreations give it a deflector somewhat in the style of the TOS version. The one picture that shows that area shows a recessed deflector like the movie refit, but with a small dome in the middle. And while you can see the dome on the front of the nacelles (elongated dome that is), the photos are B&W so there is no indication of color except for one photo from behind on an effects mount. Most of the photos show the model in various stages of construction and I've only found 3 where it appears to be complete. But they are just enough to get the details of the build to render for this project when combined with the drawings.

Where have you seen these photos? I never have.

 

[yotsuya]

Nevermind. Someone very skilled at photoshop had stuck Shaw's model in those photos. One was obvious, but the others weren't immediately (until I found the original model photos). They lowered the resolution to hide the edits. I hate getting fooled like that. But there is so little to go on. Ah well. I guess that is a complement to Shaw that he did such a good job. But the key photos I've been pulling most of the information off of are of the model under construction, which looks very different from what Shaw's did under construction.

Still, Shaw was on the right track as Jefferies gave no indication of a dish on the front of the secondary hull.

 

[Maurice]

Nevermind. Someone very skilled at photoshop had stuck Shaw's model in those photos. One was obvious, but the others weren't immediately (until I found the original model photos. They lowered the resolution to hide the edits. I hate getting fooled like that. But there is so little to go on. Ah well. I guess that is a complement to Shaw that he did such a good job. But the key photos I've been pulling most of the information off of are of the model under construction, which looks very different from what Shaw's did under construction.

That's what I suspected. I'm fairly certain the Loos-built model for the TV show was not finished. I think it was crudely stuck together for the review by Roddenberry, Abel and Taylor, etc. I cannot imagine there were no plans to light it.

@Shaw said he has a source for things like the "button" in the middle of the deflector dish, but he never said what that source was.

 

[yotsuya]

I think it is clear there were plans to light it since the windows were molded into the secondary hull and neck.

The saucer windows and the design of the delfector are the only things that aren't included in Jefferies drawings or the photos. They were included in the paintings, but Jefferies would have drawn a protruding deflector if that is what he wanted. He didn't and the refit kept the recessed deflector so that is what I'm going with. Unless I can find a source for that button, I probably won't use it. But I will use the paintings for the windows... they are just the TOS window pattern.

The biggest changes to the surface of the model are the shape of the windows from large rectangles to small circles and the grid.

 

[yotsuya]

Since I have determined the sizes and shapes are good, I've replicated things and filled in a few gaps to make some images.

 

[Shaw]

Nevermind. Someone very skilled at photoshop had stuck Shaw's model in those photos.

Yes, I've spent a lot of years (about 25) using Photoshop. Some recent examples include...

Click images to enlarge

​

And one I did back in 1998...

These images aren't intended to punk anyone, they are intended as entertainment. Here are some comparisons of the images in question and the originals...

Click to enlarge​

@Shaw said he has a source for things like the "button" in the middle of the deflector dish, but he never said what that source was.

True, I haven't said the sources of all my references... partly because if I start naming people, others might become obvious by a process of elimination, and partly because I don't exactly remember who asked for anonymity and who didn't.

Of course one has to assume that either Eaglemoss contacted a lot of the same people I did... or they lifted a ton directly from my research.

The interesting thing is that in 2012 the Phase II Enterprise wasn't something I was focusing on. I was getting ready to start my 33 inch TOS Enterprise replica and based on the information I had gathered incidentally while researching that subject, was going to start in on a Phase II study model after the 33 inch model was finished.

So how did the Phase II Enterprise jump to the front of the line? I was contacted by Brick Price. That made me take a long look at the information I had and decide to spend the next two years concentrating on the Phase II Enterprise.

Keep in mind that my study model favored Jefferies' elements over Price/Loos. My weapons assembly is based on Jefferies' plans, not the studio model. Elements of my nacelles (like the indented grills) are also Jefferies' design.

Someday I'd like to go back and do a larger version based only on the studio model, but Brice/Loos had done a really good job translating Jefferies design (even after Jefferies was force to limit his contact with them) that it hasn't been a priority on my part.

 

[Maurice]

Yes, I've spent a lot of years (about 25) using Photoshop. Some recent examples include...

Click images to enlarge

​

And one I did back in 1998...

These images aren't intended to punk anyone, they are intended as entertainment. Here are some comparisons of the images in question and the originals...

Click to enlarge​

True, I haven't said the sources of all my references... partly because if I start naming people, others might become obvious by a process of elimination, and partly because I don't exactly remember who asked for anonymity and who didn't.

Of course one has to assume that either Eaglemoss contacted a lot of the same people I did... or they lifted a ton directly from my research.

The interesting thing is that in 2012 the Phase II Enterprise wasn't something I was focusing on. I was getting ready to start my 33 inch TOS Enterprise replica and based on the information I had gathered incidentally while researching that subject, was going to start in on a Phase II study model after the 33 inch model was finished.

So how did the Phase II Enterprise jump to the front of the line? I was contacted by Brick Price. That made me take a long look at the information I had and decide to spend the next two years concentrating on the Phase II Enterprise.

Keep in mind that my study model favored Jefferies' elements over Price/Loos. My weapons assembly is based on Jefferies' plans, not the studio model. Elements of my nacelles (like the indented grills) are also Jefferies' design.

Someday I'd like to go back and do a larger version based only on the studio model, but Brice/Loos had done a really good job translating Jefferies design (even after Jefferies was force to limit his contact with them) that it hasn't been a priority on my part.

Thanks for that. I realize you may not wish to share your source for the detail in question, but can you at least say if it was sketch or a photo or something of that sort?

 

[publiusr]

Hmmm
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/whe...e-ii-enterprise-study-model-come-from.298877/

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/WonderWorks_Inc.

Further confirmation was provided in the Hollywood Treasure documentary series episode, in which Brick Price himself presented the molds and partial casts of the model. In it could be discerned that some of the molds were at least partially modified and that the castings were not those of the original model.

Jefferies desire for a curvier ship is again denied.

Rats. I'd love to see a foot model of his TMoST drawing.

 

[yotsuya]

It is amazing how much there is. I bet, like the TOS version the study models both vary from Jefferies drawings. There really isn't quite enough of any one of them to do it justice. But when we combine what we do have, we can get pretty close. I'm sticking close to the larger model and the later drawings, which I think led directly to the TMP version.

 

[yotsuya]

As I dig through the limited photos of the model, I am coming to a set of conclusions. My work is primarily focusing on the nacelles and pylons as the rest of the ship has few features. What I have concluded is that they made a single nacelle and they made two copies. Several photos show the stubby fin and the raised bar on the same side on both nacelles. When they made the hybrid movie refit, they moved the stubby fin but not the small raised bar. The nacelles also lack the two ribs on the bottom of the front end. But so far everything is coming together, albeit slowly. I'm going to keep the drawings together until I'm happy with the pylons. I'm using the same angle for both (the drawings agree) although the fore/aft placement is not the same. But I need to have the same guide for where the pylon joins the secondary hull for both.

 

[yotsuya]

The Phase II as built is coming along nicely. Some things are missing. The deflector and weapon pod will have to match the drawings. The warp nacelles are coming along nicely. Lots of adjustments and tweaking.

The nacelles have the same basic shape as the later TMP refit, but they are taller, wider, and shorter.

 

[yotsuya]

Added the weapon on the front of the neck (Jefferies intended it to be a phaser but from the nature of the TOS phasers and the TMP phasers, this is more like the torpedo tubes of TMP), tweaked the ports and docks (including adding a temp registry) and made a pylon guide (that maroon mess of lines and circles on the secondary hull).

It has been hard to pinpoint just how the model might have been finished. We know Jefferies revised his drawings to better match how the model was being built, but a lot of the details around the front of the secondary hull remain a mystery. The molds were modified to represent a more TMP refit style to make additional models. The the clue I needed was an image on Memory Alpha (https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/7/77/Ship's_operations_graphics_bridge_computer_USS_Enterprise_at_auction.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140926231905&path-prefix=en). It is from some bridge display graphics and feels closer to the final model than the other drawings and it has the weapon as a wider double circle (kind of like the MasterCard logo) than what Jefferies drew and that agrees with the revised side view and how the neck on the model was molded. The part that sticks forward under the weapon would be more pointed than the rest of the front of the neck. For the three Space Energy Field Attraction Sensors (as David Kimble labeled them) I'm going to stick to how the revised plans and cross section have a small box and then the angled piece (unlike the original plan which just has the angled piece).

Once I have the pylons roughed in, it will be time to split these files apart and start fixing them and finalizing them.

 

[yotsuya]

Wow... the refit pylons are not easy. The base on the Kimble drawings is pretty close, but the nacelle end is not. I'm slowly narrowing in on the basic shape and then I'll add the details where the ends merge into the secondary hull and nacelles. The Phase II version is so simple in comparison.

Basically where I started was with the center of the pylons. I figured out where the center of the pylon was at secondary hull and at the nacelle. Lots of photo references. I have a couple of really good edge on views of the pylon and some other really good views. The fore/aft length of the pylon where it meets the nacelles is much longer than any other drawings. It is good to have the other versions for reference because it makes me doubt anything I do different and turn to the photos to see who is right. And while I have not reverted any of the changes, I have had to revise them as I discover new details.

One of the cool things about this extended project is that I also end up learning more than the model's shape and surface, but also its internal structure. The Refit Enterprise is by far the most solidly build starship. While the surface may show its age and the electrical system may or may not work any more, the frame and hull are solidly built and shouldn't have any issues with standing on display like it is. The Excelsior and TOS models weren't so well built. They were built for a short term use and as they age some flaws show up. Hopefully the latest NASM restoration will take care of the weak secondary hull glue joints of the TOS model and they won't have to revisit it again in 20 years. I would guess credit for the refit's hardiness lies in the Phase II model. The model makers at Magicam got to see first hand the weaknesses of the design before they started the 100 inch model and were able to design and build a frame to counter those issues. The Phase II model was so weak that you can clearly see the wires holding it up when it was positioned in the Phase II spacedock.

Things move ever forward to the finish.