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Earth during the Enterprise Time Period

SCE2Aux

Captain
Captain
I've heard that there was an early notion amongst the production staff that Enterprise's first season would have been mostly set on Earth, and that we might consequently have seen a side of Star Trek that isn't frequently seen; planetary culture, politics and environment - the landlubber's perspective, if you will.

I think this is a fascinating idea, and worth having some fun speculating upon!

- Do you think that some parts of the Earth are still being reclaimed/detoxified after world war 3?

- Are there any generational divides between those who remember living amidst the post atomic horror, and those who were born later, into increasingly more stable times (I'm guessing that those who were alive in the late 21st/early 22nd centuries would still be having a rough time of it...)? Would they react differently to the idea that nation states are starting to mean something different to what they used to, and the notion of world government becoming more mainstream?

- What would people make of humans leaving Earth to make a living in deep space? Are they envious, or do they think Space Boomers have abandoned Earth in a time of need?

- Vulcans have certainly assisted Earth during this period, but they have also hindered as well, and for seemingly inscrutable reasons from a human perspective. What do you think the balance of opinion on them is - good or bad? How about opinions on aliens in general?

Speculate away!
 
Interesting thoughts. Especially since IRL, we're kind of experiencing some of the stuff that'll lead to whatever happens on that future galaxy.
 
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Archer’s initial feelings about the Vulcans are probably fairly representative, especially given that anti-alien sentiment still seems not to be uncommon on Earth four years later.

As to generational/cultural divides, though not canon, I think there was recently a comic which portrayed some parts of Earth (part of Russia?) as still not really/entirely integrated into the Federation/United Earth system more than a century later, in the TOS era!
 
As to generational/cultural divides, though not canon, I think there was recently a comic which portrayed some parts of Earth (part of Russia?) as still not really/entirely integrated into the Federation/United Earth system more than a century later, in the TOS era!
That's an fascinating idea - to have some autonomous non-aligned regions still maintaining a distinct border. I like stuff like that, because real-life history is also very messy, with lots of caveats and exceptions. It made me think of the TNG episode 'Up The Long Ladder', where the ship SS Mariposa leaves Earth during this time period to set up colonies that were presumably organised in ways contrary to how the nascent United Earth was shaping up. The Mariposa was, interestingly, launched from Baikonur, which whilst not in Russia, is nevertheless a Russian launch facility. Maybe the writer of that comic had that episode in mind?

Archer’s initial feelings about the Vulcans are probably fairly representative, especially given that anti-alien sentiment still seems not to be uncommon on Earth four years later.
I'm sure there would be a lot of those Terra-Prime type sentiments floating about. I think it's a good bet that whilst the Vulcans didn't share any of their spaceflight tech, but I bet they were much more generous when it came to land reclamation efforts and medical technology (ie the interspecies medical exchange), provided that we organised and unified ourselves in order to equitably utilise them for all humanity instead of just an elite. With that in mind, I'd imagine that opinions of Vulcans would be rather mixed. Archer, after all, prioritised spaceflight achievements over other equally valid concerns, which would make him particularly apt to have a negative opinion of them. However, maybe that corn farmer in Broken Bow had a much more positive view of aliens (provided they don't crash land in his field haha).
 
Based on what we see, mid 21st century earth isn't quite ready yet for the interstellar era, even though they have recently obtained the technology to become a full fledged member of the interstellar community (I mean, warp 5- warp 1 or 2 are simply too slow for more than occasional contacts with aliens for a tiny percentage of humans). In order for the Terra Prime movement to do what they did, they must have had quite some substantial support back on earth and in the solar system.

While I wouldn't expect the average earth inhabitant to hold it with Terra Prime ideas (that'd probably be the most xenophobic 5-10% or so), I'd still expect them to be significantly more conservative in that respect than the average Starfleet officer. The latter, after all, join Starfleet to actively seek out alien civilizations.
 
That's an fascinating idea - to have some autonomous non-aligned regions still maintaining a distinct border. I like stuff like that, because real-life history is also very messy, with lots of caveats and exceptions. It made me think of the TNG episode 'Up The Long Ladder', where the ship SS Mariposa leaves Earth during this time period to set up colonies that were presumably organised in ways contrary to how the nascent United Earth was shaping up. The Mariposa was, interestingly, launched from Baikonur, which whilst not in Russia, is nevertheless a Russian launch facility. Maybe the writer of that comic had that episode in mind?


I'm sure there would be a lot of those Terra-Prime type sentiments floating about. I think it's a good bet that whilst the Vulcans didn't share any of their spaceflight tech, but I bet they were much more generous when it came to land reclamation efforts and medical technology (ie the interspecies medical exchange), provided that we organised and unified ourselves in order to equitably utilise them for all humanity instead of just an elite. With that in mind, I'd imagine that opinions of Vulcans would be rather mixed. Archer, after all, prioritised spaceflight achievements over other equally valid concerns, which would make him particularly apt to have a negative opinion of them. However, maybe that corn farmer in Broken Bow had a much more positive view of aliens (provided they don't crash land in his field haha).
Now there’s an interesting idea — that humanity didn’t unite and calm down because they had finally learned better because of the war or evolved; they did it because the Vulcans nicely strongarmed them into it: “Learn to be nice going forward, Or Else we won’t help you clean up your planet and you’ll be fucked.” (In which case, THANK YOU VULCAN, but of course all the rugged “We determine our own destiny” types would hate that. Weird and uncomfortable to think, but that rather implies that if traditional-declarative-TOS-TV-Kirk had been born a century earlier, he might have leaned in Terra Prime’s direction.)
 
Archer has a myopic view of the Vulcans as they actively hindered his fathers research, so its more personal with him.

Now the public at large may have that view that in general there good people but are hindering our efforts to get off the mudball.

I don't think the Terra Prime stuff really kicked off till the Xindi attack, and then having most of a year of just sitting there and waiting for another attack, basically not knowing.

But there has been and will always be a % of humans that are arseholes and have a "Human (Insert race, gender,etc) First" mentality, and that mentality in the general public comes to the fore occasionally, usually in tough times, looking for a Villain to pin it on.
But at the start, it would be just the here or there random person, not any big movent.

As for internal breakdown, say countries, Reed was thinking about joining the Royal Navy. So the idea of Nation/States do still exist, and they may still have some autonomy in the "World" system, in that nations would be just another break down in government hierarchy.. So, "Earth Gov" then Nation states, then County's, then city's etc. Maybe like the U.N. where theirs a "senate" of Earth countries, an other colonies like the Moon, Mars, another areas in the solar system.

EDIT:
Looking at another Sci fi franchise, Macross, when an alien ship crashed on the planet, they decided to rebuild it, and with that a majority of nations decided to form a world government, but some didn't want to and there was a "Unification" war for 7 years.

But since this was after WW3, and after encountering aliens for the first time, I would think there would be some holdouts, but most would fold into a world government, and not be to aggressive to join, and after 90 years, there might be the occasional hold out, but most would have naturally gravitated into the government.
 
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- Do you think that some parts of the Earth are still being reclaimed/detoxified after world war 3?
A possibility. We know that the Eastern Seaboard of the US, Indiana and Paris did get hit, and that is likely why San Francisco appears to be the global capital of United Earth in the 22nd century. If anywhere is still being detoxified by the 2150s, it's likely mainland Asia. Maybe Eastern Europe or the majority of Africa or Australiasia or Central America got it bad as well. But mainland Asia is my bet; the lack of presence of Middle Easterners, Central Asians, South Asians and Chinese is glaring considering how much of Earth’s population they make up. Meanwhile in later series, we see Africa presences (Uhura and the Laforges), Eastern European presence (Chekov and Irina Galiulin), and a Latin American presence (Ortegas, and (by-way-of-Japan), Hoshi). Hoshi even had a pen pal from Australia growing up. And there is no reason not to believe that the Bashirs have lived in the UK for centuries, long before the 22nd century.

Of course, maybe a large number of the mainland Asia populace boarded a few Space Arks and left Earth to colonize a planet or two, and just want nothing to do with Earth as a whole.

- Are there any generational divides between those who remember living amidst the post atomic horror, and those who were born later, into increasingly more stable times (I'm guessing that those who were alive in the late 21st/early 22nd centuries would still be having a rough time of it...)?
Henry Archer was born, if not in the middle of the post-atomic horror, then at the end of it i.e. late 2070s. There’s never been anything to indicate a divide between his generation (that includes Zefram Cochrane, Lily Sloane, and Emory Erickson), and his son’s generation (from the NX crews to Admiral Forrest to bartenders like Ruby to intelligence agents in Gannet Brooks and Harris) in the show.

At the same time, we know that Neo-Transcendentalism is a thing in the early 22nd century, founded by Liam Dieghan. So, if there was a divide, it would be based on the reliance of technology, since technology was really important to get Earth out from the post-atomic horror. And its just as likely that technology is what got them into the post-atomic horror mess in the first place.

There’s also the fact that Earth seems to have cured every disease humans have ever known prior to the 22nd century, and they did it without turning the population into Augments (though a culling of the population prior to that during the post-atomic horror cannot be ignored). But since new diseases do crop up, perhaps there is a divide on genetic engineering – not just because of its value for medicinal purposes, but because genetic engineering is illegal. And while I never got the sense that Archer's family would have broken the law to save Henry Archer, it does not rule out other families chosing to do so to save a loved one.
Would they react differently to the idea that nation states are starting to mean something different to what they used to, and the notion of world government becoming more mainstream?
We never really see a resistance toward Earth government. It seems like humans in the 22nd century see their regional cultures as a small part of a wider global community. Like how Texas, California, Pacific Northwest, the Midwest, and New England are all unique cultures within the United States, for example. And that’s likely because the 22nd century humans know what the alternative is; as the United Earth movement stalled out shortly after first contact, people were killing each other for fun. And that seemed to end once the United Earth movement got going again.

But the fact that there are British and Russian sublight vessels in existence, and Reed’s father wanted him to join the Royal Navy indicates that nationalism does still exist. It’s just not widely popular and likely on the fringe of 22nd century society.
- What would people make of humans leaving Earth to make a living in deep space? Are they envious, or do they think Space Boomers have abandoned Earth in a time of need?

I think the conversation that Mayweather brothers had on the ECS Horizon was very similar to the humans staying on Earth had with both the early Space Boomers and those that left on the Terra space arks to colonize new world. Only instead of Paul Mayweather being critical of Travis leaving the Horizon to join Starfleet, Space Boomers like Paul Mayweather would have been on the other side of the argument and been criticized by those that chose to remain on Earth.

Now since Zefram Cochrane did leave Earth to live on Alpha Centauri, I have to believe that those that chose to left Earth maybe not have been as harshly criticized as Paul criticized Travis. Since Cochrane also leaving would have legitimized the movement.

- Vulcans have certainly assisted Earth during this period, but they have also hindered as well, and for seemingly inscrutable reasons from a human perspective. What do you think the balance of opinion on them is - good or bad?
Archer, Trip and even Hoshi show that there is not a widespread positive rection to Vulcans. And Terra Prime took those sentiment to the extreme.

Of course, we do not know if any other humans bonded with Andorians over personal issues with Vulcans. We really only see Archer and Shran; Trip and Hoshi, while on friendly terms, never seem to show the same strong bond to Shran or Andorians as Archer does.

In the Vulcans defense, they themselves did not expect to remain on Earth for 90 years either. They probably those that they would help humans a bit with their space program and them move on. They probably saw enough humans getting a thrill of killing someone else (as Lily Sloane put it) that they realized they needed to both guide and pacify Earth before they traveled to the stars and start an interstellar war. That the Earth-Kzin Wars are in the same timeframe as the post-atomic horror likely validated their beliefs.

As for the average citizen, they likely do not know about the Vulcan-Romulans schism. And aren’t even going to consider that some Romulans are still living among Vulcans, let alone are reaching the top of Vulcan government and influencing Vulcan society. And I’m sure that the Vulcans choosing not help Earth during the Xindi crisis did not help matters. So any mistrust or distrust of Vulcans would still exist on a low level.

Vulcan influence seems to have been in the realm of law and philosophy. It has to be, since we see captains centuries later having to play defense attorneys in court martials and inquests, and that requires them to put their emotions aside and argue in a logical way. And we know that the post-atomic humans killed all the lawyers and believed in guilty until proven innocent. It’s likely that the Vulcans had to restructure the human legal system. And that's what probabaly gets to 22nd century humans the most - they are litterally following the rules according to how Vuclans see them, since it's Vulcan philosophy that is influencing those laws, and in turn, social customs on Earth. They aren't digging the Vulcan version of polticial correctness.

How about opinions on aliens in general?
I think any human opinion on other aliens is largely limited to shared medical knowledge and interstellar trade. We don’t know if Archer’s discoveries and first contacts were immediately broadcasted back to Earth.

We know xenophobes like Paxton are hypocrites and rely on medicine like Rigelian gene therapy.

I would also suspect that many human-alien romances don’t last very long or are very on and off in the 22nd century, at least prior to the romance of Trip and T’Pol. As there are cultural barriers that have to be overcome on both ends.
 
- Do you think that some parts of the Earth are still being reclaimed/detoxified after world war 3?
Yes, I think it would have taken quite a long time. This predates Voyager style transformation of an entire planet as they did in Friendship One.
Are there any generational divides between those who remember living amidst the post atomic horror, and those who were born later, into increasingly more stable times (I'm guessing that those who were alive in the late 21st/early 22nd centuries would still be having a rough time of it...)? Would they react differently to the idea that nation states are starting to mean something different to what they used to, and the notion of world government becoming more mainstream?
There probably would be, but more likely on an individual family level than anything like solid generational tribes. Also the desire for an end to national conflicts/rivalries goes back to long before World War I, across generations and nationalities. The concept of a world government has been widely supported since The League of Nations: gets stronger after every major conflagration. The Big One would really bring it home for most of the survivors. The next two or three generations would still be surrounded by the destruction and aware that only through a united effort could their lives improve. By the time complacency set in, the original survivors would be gone and people would getting on with the status quo. By then, regional issues could be settled under a more enlightened governance without jingoism. Some nostalgia is inevitable; stories of before, based on imperfect memory.
- What would people make of humans leaving Earth to make a living in deep space? Are they envious, or do they think Space Boomers have abandoned Earth in a time of need?
I doubt most people would be concerned. Not everybody wants to be stuck in a tin box at the mercy of space - like me, interested in what they're learning, what they're doing, how they're living, what they can bring back, but not the least bit tempted to join them. The only resentment would be engendered by the amount of resources that went onto the space projects that could have been used elsewhere.
Vulcans have certainly assisted Earth during this period, but they have also hindered as well, and for seemingly inscrutable reasons from a human perspective. What do you think the balance of opinion on them is - good or bad? How about opinions on aliens in general?
On the whole, I think they would have been welcomed - possibly even collected a mass of ardent fans. We have long cherished the dream of aliens coming to save us from ourselves. The stubborn, prideful "We can take of ourselves" contingent would probably have pulled in their horns after the mess they'd made. (In human history, the great depressions and wars are usually followed by a period of increased co-operation and optimism.)
As has been pointed out, Archer's attitude is shared by a small special interest group - probably more than one such group; people who had different ambitions.

This all is sheer speculation; I haven't seen enough of the series yet to gather much information about Earth.
 
Not a major spoiler, but the current issue of Star Trek: Defiant
(non-canon, of course) outright states that Berlingoff Rasmussen saw nuclear war on Earth in the 22nd century. Though in context, I’m pretty sure the writers have simply confused the 22nd with the 21st, for some reason.
 
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According to Voyager, money was still in use on Earth in the ENT era. The NX-01 crew were paid to do their thing. And thus Earth... might not be too dissimilar to that of today.
 
I've imagined that the Vulcans just came in at 2063, got rid of the radiation, helped the Earthicans build a very basic replicator type device to give people basic nutrition and then basically stood back. I don't reckon they hindered, they just didn't do everything Johnny Archer wanted them to have done. They didn't give them Warp 5 engines straight up because they knew the fractured Earth would get itself into a bunch of crap with alien races that they weren't prepared to face. Them stuck as a nothing power for a hundred years allowed the establishment of a world government and humbled humanity somewhat and allowed more understanding of races that came to visit them. If Connestoga and Valiant are anything to go by there were space projects going on of our own accord not that long after 2063. I like to think that a lot of these projects existed before WW3 and had development but once Cochrane cracked warp and shared it with everyone a lot of those projects were able to reach completion.
 
Not a major spoiler, but the current issue of Star Trek: Defiant... <possible spoiler snipped>
Er... any post that begins "Not a major spoiler, but..." is a red flag.

I haven't read this series, and I don't know the context of this info, but there is a segment of the fandom -- your humble moderator included -- that considers being exposed to any unshielded spoiler to be a massive affront. And the issue you mention was released only days ago.

The thread cautioning against unshielded spoilers pinned at the top of this forum is about streaming shows, but it applies to any Trek-related work released within the last six months.

So, important safety tip: If you're not sure, be cautious and kind, and put it behind spoiler tags. Thanks.
 
Er... any post that begins "Not a major spoiler, but..." is a red flag.

I haven't read this series, and I don't know the context of this info, but there is a segment of the fandom -- your humble moderator included -- that considers being exposed to any unshielded spoiler to be a massive affront. And the issue you mention was released only days ago.

The thread cautioning against unshielded spoilers pinned at the top of this forum is about streaming shows, but it applies to any Trek-related work released within the last six months.

So, important safety tip: If you're not sure, be cautious and kind, and put it behind spoiler tags. Thanks.
While I admit I don’t see how a character’s reference to an historical situation that impacts nothing in the story but his own stated position constitutes a spoiler — and that’s why I was sure —certainly, going forward I’ll tag something like this even when I am.
 
Do you think that some parts of the Earth are still being reclaimed/detoxified after world war 3?
Very likely.

I have always been flummoxed by the notion that Earth managed to recover from a global thermonuclear war in less than a century.

At the very least, the Vulcans must have helped in the cleanup and rebuilding...
 
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- Do you think that some parts of the Earth are still being reclaimed/detoxified after world war 3?

Maybe possibly, although I would think that by 2151, they've got things under control. I think they likely just recently got everything under control though. We know United Earth was only fully incorporated in 2150, which would lead me to believe that they were still places on the tail end of the "Post-Atomic Horror" up until right about then.

- Are there any generational divides between those who remember living amidst the post atomic horror, and those who were born later, into increasingly more stable times (I'm guessing that those who were alive in the late 21st/early 22nd centuries would still be having a rough time of it...)? Would they react differently to the idea that nation states are starting to mean something different to what they used to, and the notion of world government becoming more mainstream?

There would have to be.


- What would people make of humans leaving Earth to make a living in deep space? Are they envious, or do they think Space Boomers have abandoned Earth in a time of need?

Probably up and down the spectrum. I'm sure some all about it and maybe wish they could, but it's not quite as easy to do so as it would become later on. There are probably alot of people who love to get out into space but just aren't qualified. It's EASIER than being an astronaut today, but still difficult.

There would surely be people who think people shouldn't be out wandering the stars when there are problems right there on Earth to take care of.
 
I don't reckon they hindered, they just didn't do everything Johnny Archer wanted them to have done. They didn't give them Warp 5 engines straight up because they knew the fractured Earth would get itself into a bunch of crap with alien races that they weren't prepared to face.
They did, tho. What Archer refers is to the constant delays, delays, delays that had the Warp 5 outlive his father. It wasn't about giving humans tech, it was delaying human use of the tech they had for further advancement. If AG/Archer hadn't disregarded Vulcan policy/interference, Earth would still be flying at Warp 1.

Warp 2 in 2143.
Warp 3 in 2144.
Warp 5 in 2151.

Soval claims this was because the Vulcans were afraid of human progress, doing what took Vulcan a thousand years to do in a century. Given the Romulan infiltration, I like to think this is an attitude derived from them, but Vulcans have been dicks for a while.

@evilchumlee, it's good to see you back. While we have often found ourselves at opposite sides of opinions, I have enjoyed our discussions.
No! You must fight! Fight, like the fighting Fek'lhr!

Rip off your shirts! Oil your flesh. Adorn yourself with the meat of your foes and scream the song of your people!!!!

Very likely.

I have always been flummoxed by the notion that Earth managed to recover from a global thermonuclear war in less than a century.

Vulcans: You people are insane.

Humans: Sounds like a skill issue. Get Gud, elf.

Vulcans: Wise, immortal, and hot? Yes, we are. Thank you.

Humans: :eek:
 
They did, tho. What Archer refers is to the constant delays, delays, delays that had the Warp 5 outlive his father. It wasn't about giving humans tech, it was delaying human use of the tech they had for further advancement. If AG/Archer hadn't disregarded Vulcan policy/interference, Earth would still be flying at Warp 1.

Soval claims this was because the Vulcans were afraid of human progress, doing what took Vulcan a thousand years to do in a century. Given the Romulan infiltration, I like to think this is an attitude derived from them, but Vulcans have been dicks for a while.

I feel like the REAL answer is somewhere in between. Like, the Vulcans were actually physically stopping Earth from doing anything. They were just kind of like, "Hey, chill out and take it slow". There does seem to be sour grapes because the Vulcans weren't actively helping them. Archer isn't really an unbiased source.

But yeah, the Vulcans were infiltrated by the Romulans, so there was certainly some influence. Also with some newer information from SNW... I have to wonder how long the Romulans have known about Earth being important later on. There are Romulan temporal operatives on Earth, it seems entirely plausible that 22nd century Romulus know at least SOMETHING about the potential future of Earth... and while maybe it wasn't where the show was going to go with it, I feel like the Temporal Cold War having some Romulan involvement fits in well with the Romulan War...

I like the idea that FutureGuy was a Romulan and trying to sabotage the Federation before it existed, and then the Romulans basically go to war with Earth for somewhat similar reasons as the Xindi... Future Romulans convince Past Romulans that Earth is bad.


No! You must fight! Fight, like the fighting Fek'lhr!

Rip off your shirts! Oil your flesh. Adorn yourself with the meat of your foes and scream the song of your people!!!!

There is no stopping THE FLYING BUTT OF DOOOOOOOM!
 
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