Could Data have been promoted and stayed on the Enterprise?

[CoveTom]

Data is much more special to Starfleet interests than Harry Kim, & that might likely have gotten him a bump or 2 for utility reasons. However, Picard is a champion for lost causes, & looked on a near 20 year veteran, deciding that this guy deserves at least a chance at commanding, if he's interested in it, & everybody probably thought he was nuts for doing it.

And even Picard only reluctantly gave him command of a ship in "Redemption"...

 

[Mojochi]

And even Picard only reluctantly gave him command of a ship in "Redemption"...

That's one way to look at it, but I don't know that I'd call it reluctant. Absent minded maybe. Data's ambition, if there even is any, is easy to overlook, even for Picard, which is maybe another reason Data languished in the ranks for 2 decades. It's easy to pass over the man who makes no noise about it.

I can't see Picard deliberately passing over Data for a ship on competency grounds though. He's one for giving people chances, even a kid like Wes, or a problem officer like Barclay, when others wanted him transferred. In a weird way, The Enterprise is full of people Picard is trying to provide some amount of just dues.

Which is odd to me, because some officers like Riker speak of the ship as a prestige posting, for elite officers only, & some others echo that sentiment, but I've never seen any of that position from Picard. He's almost a refuge for misfits.

 

[Nerys Myk]

That's one way to look at it, but I don't know that I'd call it reluctant. Absent minded maybe. Data's ambition, if there even is any, is easy to overlook, even for Picard, which is maybe another reason Data languished in the ranks for 2 decades. It's easy to pass over the man who makes no noise about it.

I can't see Picard deliberately passing over Data for a ship on competency grounds though. He's one for giving people chances, even a kid like Wes, or a problem officer like Barclay, when others wanted him transferred. In a weird way, The Enterprise is full of people Picard is trying to provide some amount of just dues.

Which is odd to me, because some officers like Riker speak of the ship as a prestige posting, for elite officers only, & some others echo that sentiment, but I've never seen any of that position from Picard. He's almost a refuge for misfits.

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Merry Christmas

 

[carcinoGeneticist]

That's one way to look at it, but I don't know that I'd call it reluctant. Absent minded maybe. Data's ambition, if there even is any, is easy to overlook, even for Picard, which is maybe another reason Data languished in the ranks for 2 decades. It's easy to pass over the man who makes no noise about it.

I can't see Picard deliberately passing over Data for a ship on competency grounds though. He's one for giving people chances, even a kid like Wes, or a problem officer like Barclay, when others wanted him transferred. In a weird way, The Enterprise is full of people Picard is trying to provide some amount of just dues.

Which is odd to me, because some officers like Riker speak of the ship as a prestige posting, for elite officers only, & some others echo that sentiment, but I've never seen any of that position from Picard. He's almost a refuge for misfits.

I never considered this. Data's apparent lack of ambition is something to consider, but he also did some pretty good things that seem to warrant a promotion.

 

[Mojochi]

I never considered this. Data's apparent lack of ambition is something to consider, but he also did some pretty good things that seem to warrant a promotion.

Which is why when it gets brought up, Picard does look a little embarrassed that he'd overlooked him for the Sutherland. There's never been a question about his ability to command as far as the Enterprise record is concerned, & Picard looked like he felt justifiable dumb for not having offered one of the ships to him before it got brought up by Data.

He no doubt deserved a permanent promotion too IMHO, but there may have been other obstacles to that, which is what we've all been trying to explain here. Maybe there is no suitable excuse beyond writers being afraid to make him the same rank as Riker or set him up in a way that should move him out of Ops & into a red suit.

 

[Frontis]

Data would be a good captain I think.

 

[Mojochi]

Data would be a good captain I think.

He could probably captain a whole starship by himself, maybe with some holographic aids

 

[Kor]

We could have ended up with a later TOS movie-era situation, where there are multiple officers with the rank of Captain who are doing exactly the same stuff that they did in the series.

Kor

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I think we're all dancing around the likely real issue here. Data was an android. In "Redemption," we saw a lot of resistance to him being in command, even temporarily. Perhaps Starfleet intentionally avoided moving him up higher than Lt. Commander/second officer specifically because he was an android.

I've always believed that about the "glass ceiling" Data bumped his head into across all of those years.

I did consider that, but if Starfleet truly didn't want an android to have any kind of authority, they never would have allowed him to become a lieutenant commander. He stayed forever an ensign like a certain someone...

Limited authority. As an exercise, Starfleet allowed the android to hold a certain rank with its associated level of authority, but would never trust him to be the true second in command or captain. It appeared as if he was merely a glorified experiment with growth limitations already decided from the start.

The only way he would have reached the level of captain would be through infiltration, in the way Roger Korby planned to do with his Kirk android and a select society.

 

[carcinoGeneticist]

I think we're all dancing around the likely real issue here. Data was an android. In "Redemption," we saw a lot of resistance to him being in command, even temporarily. Perhaps Starfleet intentionally avoided moving him up higher than Lt. Commander/second officer specifically because he was an android.

I never considered this, but now that it's been put out there, I think that's very likely.

 

[Uxi]

Across seven seasons and four films, Data never got promoted to commander. Could he have, though, and remained on-board or would such a rank promotion forced Starfleet to resign him or Riker? There were other commanders on-board besides Riker (Pulaski was and I thought Crusher was, too), but they weren't in command positions (second, third, or even fourth in command) like Riker, Data, and Worf were. So, I don’t know if two commanders in such a situation could stay on the same ship.

It's an old problem. Really, Picard should have been promoted into a safe job after the Borg thing and Riker made Captain. Some other characters should have went to different ships. Some people should have decided to leave Starfleet for private business or family life, some people should be kicked out for misconduct (Ro), etc.

Goes back to TMP bringing everyone back and then again for TWOK (though TWOK through TVH are obvious, most of the people should have retired (especially Scotty and Uhura) for V and VI.

 

[Kor]

It would have been an interesting shake-up/format change for the show, if Picard had moved up to Starfleet Operations or whatever, Riker was given command of the Enterprise, and half of the other regular characters were replaced. But to keep Picard as a semi-regular, Riker would have to meet with him every few episodes for mission updates/reports/whatever. And maybe we get some episodes that are focused entirely on base-side drama at Picard's post.

Kor

 

[Mojochi]

It would have been an interesting shake-up/format change for the show, if Picard had moved up to Starfleet Operations or whatever, Riker was given command of the Enterprise, and half of the other regular characters were replaced. But to keep Picard as a semi-regular, Riker would have to meet with him every few episodes for mission updates/reports/whatever. And maybe we get some episodes that are focused entirely on base-side drama at Picard's post.

Kor

Picard was one of the most well received characters on the show, alongside Data. Screwing with the formula just when it was hitting its stride would've been insane, especially moving either of those two IMHO. Even moving Riker would've been iffy, but slightly more possible

 

[Golden]

Pulaski was a commander, Crusher was as well. And Deanna got promoted to commander by taking a dozen tries to kill a hologram of Geordi LaForge. I think Data could have gotten the same for saving Earth from both the Borg and the consequences of a Klingon-Romulan alliance.

And worse, Data was FINALLY up for promotion with Riker finally ready to shuffle off to the Titan... and he gets killed off.

I hope there is not spoiler who killed? Data or Riker? And i hope this happened in TNG series if not this is hearthbreaking spoiler for me

 

[Oddish]

I hope there is not spoiler who killed? Data or Riker? And i hope this happened in TNG series if not this is hearthbreaking spoiler for me

Sorry. Our rules about spoilers are for events on shows that took place 6 months or less ago. The incident I was discussing was decades ago.

 

[Riley]

I have zero doubt that Berman "reasoned" that "people will be confused if Data is a commander." That makes zero sense, as he (and other Lt. Commanders) are referred to as "Commander," but Berman assumed the audience was as simple minded as he was.

In universe, I have a feeling it was because Data created Lal without consulting Picard or anyone else. Though I don't think that he was ever told this, I can see Starfleet saying he will not advance in rank as a result. By the time of NEM, years had gone by and there may have been a change of heart on the command level.