Commodore Decker and the Enterprise
- Thread starter Wingsley
- Start date
^^ One might cite a similar precedent in "Too Short A Season" when Admiral Jameson tells Picard that Starfleet has given him specific authority over the mission and the away teams, while Picard of course retains command of the Enterprise. Kolrami also seemed to cite special authority in his role as observer in "Peak Performance" even though Picard pulled rank in that case.
There is a fine line, though, between being able to order the commanding officer to do something and taking direct command of the ship.
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
^Not in Starfleet. They were entirely within their rights as senior officers. That is canon.
It looks more like the commodores have rights in the regulations that specifically gives them the option to take command. So it doesn't seem to matter which navy Star Trek borrows from as the episodes were specific enough to identify how the commodores took command.
"The Doomsday Machine"-
DECKER: Mister Spock, I'm officially notifying you that I'm exercising my option under regulations as a Starfleet Commodore, and that I am assuming command of the Enterprise.
SPOCK: You have the right to do so, but I would advise against it.
...
SPOCK: Unfortunately, Starfleet Order 104, Section B, leaves me no alternative. Paragraph 1A clearly states
...
SPOCK: If you can certify Commodore Decker medically or psychologically unfit for command, I can relieve him under Section C.
but in "The Deadly Years", Stocker takes command for a different reason under the regulations: the incapacitation of the senior officers...
STOCKER: I would like you to take over command of the Enterprise.
SPOCK: On what grounds, Commodore?
STOCKER: On the grounds that the captain, because of his affliction, is unable to perform his duties.
...
STOCKER: Mister Spock. I do not like what I'm about to say but regulations demand it. And as a Starfleet flag officer, I must follow regulations. As second in command of the Enterprise, you must convene an extraordinary competency hearing.
SPOCK: I resist that suggestion, Commodore.
STOCKER: It's not a matter of choice. When a captain is unfit, physically or mentally, a competency hearing is mandatory. Please don't make me quote a regulation which you know as well as I do.
SPOCK: Very well, sir. The hearing shall convene at fourteen hundred hours.
...
STOCKER: Well, since the senior officers are incapable and I am of flag rank, I am forced by regulations to assume command.
SPOCK: Sir, you have never commanded a starship.
and in "The Galileo Seven", Ferris is given the authority under regulations to make his mission priority.
FERRIS: Very well, Captain, but not one second beyond that moment. Is that clear? If it isn't, I suggest you look at book
nineteen, section four thirty three, paragraph twelve.
KIRK: I'm familiar with the regulations, Commissioner. I know all about your authority. Launch shuttlecraft Columbus.
TOS was not particularly observant of how the U.S. military, or any other military organization, worked.
The Enterprise seems to have been conceived as a military vessel for two reasons:
1) It gave the audience a contemporary framework in which to place the characters. Questions about what "the future" was like and how it might be different from the present could be deferred, as the behavior of the characters and their relationships were putatively constrained by a familiar, contemporary subculture;
2) Roddenberry didn't invent much, and lifted the "Star Trek future" pretty much whole cloth from pulp science fiction stories of the so-called "golden age" and specifically from the movie "Forbidden Planet." The faux-naval space vessel was a well-worn cliche decades before Trek premiered.
Having Decker usurp Kirk and Spock's authority was dramatically useful - no one sat down and rationalized the rules and regulations of Starfleet in order to justify it, you can be assured of that.
The Enterprise seems to have been conceived as a military vessel for two reasons:
1) It gave the audience a contemporary framework in which to place the characters. Questions about what "the future" was like and how it might be different from the present could be deferred, as the behavior of the characters and their relationships were putatively constrained by a familiar, contemporary subculture;
2) Roddenberry didn't invent much, and lifted the "Star Trek future" pretty much whole cloth from pulp science fiction stories of the so-called "golden age" and specifically from the movie "Forbidden Planet." The faux-naval space vessel was a well-worn cliche decades before Trek premiered.
Having Decker usurp Kirk and Spock's authority was dramatically useful - no one sat down and rationalized the rules and regulations of Starfleet in order to justify it, you can be assured of that.
Is a captain acting as a commodore (who is temporarily entitled to a broad command pennant) considered a flag officer for this purpose? One would expect that destroyer squadron commanders (referred to as "commodores", but only captains by grade) would be authorized to supercede the orders of captains (usually commanders by grade) under their command. Would that expectation be wrong? If not, would they have any authority aboard ships not normally in their squadron?
The situation I described above was only in the case of an officer aboard as a passenger, and I'm sorry I didn't make that clear. An officer in the chain of command would of course have full authority. In the case of vessels of different commands meeting at sea, the senior officer by rank, who is serving in his/her assigned command, is the Senior Officer Present and is in charge. However, the SOP is not to divert vessels of another command from their assigned duties unless there is some kind of prevailing emergency that demands it.
--Justin
Interesting topic, but why is this thread in Tech and not the TOS board?
Actually, it could fit in either one.
I posted it here because some of the participants in this forum (due to the forum's more technical nature) seem to approach a question like this one a little differently than in the TOS forum. Of course, there's overlap in the participants in both forums, but some participants here aren't in the TOS forum and vice versa.
And since this forum does cover technical issues in STAR TREK, and the last time I heard TOS was part of STAR TREK, it seemed appropriate to post it here.
I posted it here because some of the participants in this forum (due to the forum's more technical nature) seem to approach a question like this one a little differently than in the TOS forum. Of course, there's overlap in the participants in both forums, but some participants here aren't in the TOS forum and vice versa.
And since this forum does cover technical issues in STAR TREK, and the last time I heard TOS was part of STAR TREK, it seemed appropriate to post it here.
Interesting interpretation. I understand better.
If McCoy had taken Decker straight to sickbay and then contacted the bridge after starting medical scans he could've ordered Decker to remain right where he was.
But then that wouldn't do much for the episode.
But then that wouldn't do much for the episode.
Also pretty tough to justify when the Ice Cream Cone From Hell was taking shots at them.
I hate to bring this up but was McCoy's irresponsible in going to the bridge with his patient instead of going directly to sickbay?
Wouldn't he have been put on report for doing that?
Wouldn't he have been put on report for doing that?
McCoy blundered his way around in that ep, but he was probably excused for it.
Decker went from being a basket case when Kirk found him to being a loose cannon on the Enterprise. When Spock told McCoy that McCoy's statement wasn't valid, that technically wasn't true. McCoy did examine Decker on the Constellation, took readings and gave Decker a hypo. McCoy had ample grounds to relieve Decker, just didn't do it effectively.
Decker went from being a basket case when Kirk found him to being a loose cannon on the Enterprise. When Spock told McCoy that McCoy's statement wasn't valid, that technically wasn't true. McCoy did examine Decker on the Constellation, took readings and gave Decker a hypo. McCoy had ample grounds to relieve Decker, just didn't do it effectively.
I thought it was a concrete covered windsock?
Curious that McCoy apparently didn't have the remotest clue that he had the medical proof he obtained himself. What kind of a doctor IS he anyway?
Robert
He went to medical school with John Zoidberg.
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