Broadcast vs production, does episode order matter?

[JonnyQuest037]

Wonderfully well thought out.

Thanks!

My only reason for putting DotD second is because McGoohan's performance is very caged and very raw in a way that it isn't for most of the series, except for Arrival.

Yep, that's cool too. I have absolutely no objection if someone prefers to put DotD first. I totally get the arguments in that direction.

That's what I love about working out chronologies. I love hearing other people's reasoning for "Well, this episode has to come before that one, because..." And if I agree with the reasoning, it goes into my headcanon.

 

[DarrenTR1970]

My understanding is that "Free For All," "Dance of the Dead," and "Checkmate" were all written as possible second episodes of the show, so they should all occur early in the run.

I ultimately decided to put "Free For All" before the others due to a few small things:

- Number 6 is startled when he sees Number 2 appear on his television in "Free For All," pointing to him having only just arrived in the Village. In "Dance of the Dead," he's not only unsurprised by seeing Number 2 on the television in his cottage, he addresses it first, pointing to Number 6 knowing about it already.

- Number 6 says, “The maids come, and they go” and “I’m new here!” to his new maid in "Dance of the Dead," which would make more sense after his experience with Number 58 in “Free For All.”

- And lastly, Number 2’s line “We’re democratic… in some ways” in "Dance of the Dead" also has more bite coming after the fake election of “Free For All.”

In addition, Patrick McGoohan's seven essential episodes, in his preferred order, were:

1) “Arrival”
2) “Free For All”
3) “Dance of the Dead”
4) “Checkmate”
5) “The Chimes of Big Ben”
6) “Once Upon a Time”
7) “Fall Out”

So I used those, in that order, as the starting point for my chronology.

I did some looking online and there are a couple of websites that say that McGoohan never said that those seven episodes are the "core" seven. He said in a 1991 interview that he would have preferred "The Prisoner" to have been a seven episode mini-series and that he knew what six of the seven were and the order in he preferred.

1) Arrival
2) Free For All
3) The Chimes Of Big Ben
4) ?
5) Many Happy Returns
6) Once Upon A Time
7) Fall Out

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I did some looking online and there are a couple of websites that say that McGoohan never said that those seven episodes are the "core" seven. He said in a 1991 interview that he would have preferred "The Prisoner" to have been a seven episode mini-series and that he knew what six of the seven were and the order in he preferred.

1) Arrival
2) Free For All
3) The Chimes Of Big Ben
4) ?
5) Many Happy Returns
6) Once Upon A Time
7) Fall Out

Hmm... Interesting that "Many Happy Returns" is on that list and missing from the other. I'm surprised he'd pick that one, as while it's a very good episode, it covers a lot of the same ground as "The Chimes of Big Ben."

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I think my browser is messed up. Which forum is this?

 

[Nerys Myk]

I think my browser is messed up. Which forum is this?

This is forum Six

 

[Tallguy]

Hmm... Interesting that "Many Happy Returns" is on that list and missing from the other. I'm surprised he'd pick that one, as while it's a very good episode, it covers a lot of the same ground as "The Chimes of Big Ben."

Sorrrrrrt of. (Um... What thread it this?) But it's got that whole section of the empty village, the escape by sea, and the total mind screw of the ejector seat. I think more than Chimes it does a better job of convincing you he got out.

Although Chimes... "Perhaps he was slow?" "I'll BET he was."

 

[Phaser Two]

I had a busy week and hadn't posted much . . . so I thought I'd jump right in this morning and offer some pithy insights. Then I chose this thread to start.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

(Um... What thread it this?)

It's one where the initial question was answered rather quickly and now the conversation is going along its own path.

 

[maneth]

Approximate production order for the first half of the first season, except that we started with The Cage, US broadcast order after that.

 

[Tallguy]

I put my foot down about The Cage airing / displaying first. It should come at the end. And probably as "bonus".

It's like watching Revenge of the Sith before The Empire Strikes Back. Or the flashback scenes on The Godfather II as a separate film before The Godfather.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Well...is it? Revenge of the Sith is the closing chapter of a trilogy and connecting film to the next/original trilogy. And back in the 70's, NBC ran The Godfather Saga: A Novel for Television, the first two films re-edited in chronological order. It worked great.

The Cage works beautifully as an early adventure. It also has no bearing at all on the series outside of The Menagerie 2 parter, so it can also work as a bonus.

 

[Phaser Two]

I guess the familiar argument for production order is because you can see the throughlines of character background development, how the ship works, what Starfleet is, etc. take shape in the minds of TPTB. But even that doesn't really work when, to take only one example, "The Omega Glory" is obviously an early first-season concept masquerading as a late second-season episode. And in S3, the new production team had a lot of new ideas anyway. Honestly, it's utterly amazing that the canon of the show isn't utterly confused. It's quite coherent.

 

[Tallguy]

Well...is it? Revenge of the Sith is the closing chapter of a trilogy and connecting film to the next/original trilogy. And back in the 70's, NBC ran The Godfather Saga: A Novel for Television, the first two films re-edited in chronological order. It worked great.

I disagree with everything you just said. But I also recognize that what we're talking about is subjective. (Because if it wasn't there oughta be a law!)

 

[Methuselah Flint]

I guess the familiar argument for production order is because you can see the throughlines of character background development, how the ship works, what Starfleet is, etc. take shape in the minds of TPTB. But even that doesn't really work when, to take only one example, "The Omega Glory" is obviously an early first-season concept masquerading as a late second-season episode. And in S3, the new production team had a lot of new ideas anyway. Honestly, it's utterly amazing that the canon of the show isn't utterly confused. It's quite coherent.

It's funny, until I knew otherwise, I always felt TOG fitted right into season two, what with season two being the 'parallel world' season (Bread and Circuses, Patterns of Force, A Piece of the Action, The Omega Glory).

 

[Phaser Two]

It's funny, until I knew otherwise, I always felt TOG fitted right into season two, what with season two being the 'parallel world' season (Bread and Circuses, Patterns of Force, A Piece of the Action, The Omega Glory).

That is true, absolutely! It does fit in well in that sense. The most conspicuous clue about "The Omega Glory" that confused me before I knew the whole backstory was the complete lack of Scotty, and Sulu in a command role instead. Very S1 - similar to "Errand of Mercy" in that respect.

 

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

That is true, absolutely! It does fit in well in that sense. The most conspicuous clue about "The Omega Glory" that confused me before I knew the whole backstory was the complete lack of Scotty, and Sulu in a command role instead. Very S1 - similar to "Errand of Mercy" in that respect.

I never caught that after all these re-runned years. I need to find out later how many other episodes left him out......including the first televised two.

 

[Phaser Two]

I never caught that after all these re-runned years. I need to find out later how many other episodes left him out......including the first televised two.

Well, you came to the right place; I think I might be the forum's top Scotty fan, or certainly one of them I hope. I believe he's in 66 of the 79. The majority of the eps in which he didn't appear are in S1, although oddly, he appears in neither ep of the Vulcan Duology in S2.** He's in every single S3 ep IIRC, but only credited for voice in "All Our Yesterdays."

**And in each of those two episodes, he's referenced by name in the same context - taking over command, for Spock in "Amok Time" and for Kirk in "Journey to Babel," but in both, the command switch never happens and Scotty never shows.

 

[Redshirt214]

So I grew up watching Trek in production order (although I knew what the broadcast order was) on DVD. When TOS went to streaming, I watched it in broadcast order as that was how the episodes were arranged.

And boy, did it make a difference! I would not have thought that episode order really mattered, especially since Star Trek is so episodic. But I think watching the show in broadcast order makes a big difference to the viewer experience, since you’re experiencing the story unfolding in the same way as the original fans did. For me that made me understand some of fans and later adaptations characterizations of, say, Uhura and Spock’s relationship. It seems weird that they wind up together in the later movies if The Man Trap is just another episode and one where the characterization is a little inconsistent. But when you watch it as the first episode to air, and your introduction to the characters, suddenly their relationship in later media makes more sense.

Equally, time travel pops up very early on in the series as a plot point… earlier than if you watched the show in production order. That makes a big difference in terms of the impression the show leaves on you.

Either production order or air order is fine ways to watch the show, but I think every fan ought to experience watching the show all the way through in actual air date order! It gives you the best sense of how the show would have felt to watch week to week when it was first aired and I think that is an experience worth recreating, to better understand the show not just as an fictional account of history but as a piece of historic art.

 

[Phaser Two]

So I grew up watching Trek in production order (although I knew what the broadcast order was) on DVD. When TOS went to streaming, I watched it in broadcast order as that was how the episodes were arranged.

And boy, did it make a difference! I would not have thought that episode order really mattered, especially since Star Trek is so episodic. But I think watching the show in broadcast order makes a big difference to the viewer experience, since you’re experiencing the story unfolding in the same way as the original fans did. For me that made me understand some of fans and later adaptations characterizations of, say, Uhura and Spock’s relationship. It seems weird that they wind up together in the later movies if The Man Trap is just another episode and one where the characterization is a little inconsistent. But when you watch it as the first episode to air, and your introduction to the characters, suddenly their relationship in later media makes more sense.

Equally, time travel pops up very early on in the series as a plot point… earlier than if you watched the show in production order. That makes a big difference in terms of the impression the show leaves on you.

Either production order or air order is fine ways to watch the show, but I think every fan ought to experience watching the show all the way through in actual air date order! It gives you the best sense of how the show would have felt to watch week to week when it was first aired and I think that is an experience worth recreating, to better understand the show not just as an fictional account of history but as a piece of historic art.

Good post. I wasn’t around yet for the show's first run, but I grew up watching it in syndication in broadcast order, and because that was my original experience, I prefer that today. And you raise a great point about the Spock-Uhura relationship.

 

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

**And in each of those two episodes, he's referenced by name in the same context - taking over command, for Spock in "Amok Time" and for Kirk in "Journey to Babel," but in both, the command switch never happens and Scotty never shows.

Unfortunately for us Scotty-buffs, until Kirk beams down, he's never out of town.