Another Trek: Thoughts

[BillJ]

Likewise it might behoove producers of a future series to borrow an idea from Babylon 5 and begin with the notion of redressing sets.

Babylon 5 did not invent this. It has been a staple of television production in every genre, even I Love Lucy did it. TOS did it, TNG did it, as just about every other program in production during the second half of the 20th century.

I missed this earlier. Did David.Blue actually mean Babylon 5 invented redressing sets? I seem to remember it happening quite often in Star Trek. The first regular production episode redressed Enterprise sets to be used as the Fesarius. See: "The Corbomite Maneuver"

This was done in ENT: Fusion, in its first season, when a non-traditional Vulcan forced a mind-meld on T'Pol. Repercussions from it carried through several episodes.

And people pissed and moaned about how they couldn't be Vulcans.

 

[Melakon]

I missed this earlier. Did David.Blue actually mean Babylon 5 invented redressing sets?

He certainly seems to be crediting them with the idea. But some people's awareness of television only seems to cover shows after they were born. Same with film, yet some consider themselves film critics and won't watch anything in black and white.

 

[BigJake]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure David was not in fact claiming that Babylon 5 invented the idea. (AFAIK Babylon 5 was somewhat notable for the extent to which they did this, which perhaps is what he had in mind.)

 

[David.Blue]

No I did not mean the folks at Babylon 5 invented re-dressing sets (how could anyone think that? Honestly?)

And yeah, in every single fandom, go against expectations and somebody whines. Oh, the furor when a blond was cast as Vicky Winters on Dark Shadows! And the snarling over having gays on Doctor Who! Some fans of the original are still spitting nails about Battlestar Galactica. SO WHAT? Catering to the most narrow-minded of fans is a sure way to make a stinker. That someone will complain is a given! No matter what you do, or don't do. Ever.

But it makes a future Trek series more likely if they can keep costs relatively low. Look at the first four years of the new Doctor Who. Under Russell T. Davies their costs remained relatively low and their special effects nowhere near what was possible. They certainly didn't use as many as did any of the Stargate shows. To be sure (because someone will mention this as if I didn't already know it) plenty of Doctor Who took place in and around London. And they had fewer episodes per season. But the same principle applies! Not least their clever use of real world locations to seem like somewhere out-of-this-world (like "The Silence in the Library").

The whole purpose of special effects is make the story feel more real, more dramatic, more powerful. If they don't serve that, then you don't need them.

Now there've been so many episodes of Trek, plus the movies, plus the novels, plus the comic books and the online games, etc. it is virtually impossible to do anything totally new. Everything I'm suggesting has in fact been done, by Trek, at one time or another. So it remains eminently possible in my eyes.

 

[Melakon]

No I did not mean the folks at Babylon 5 invented re-dressing sets (how could anyone think that? Honestly?)

I certainly hoped that wasn't the case, but it did seem to be what you were suggesting when you said "borrow an idea from Babylon 5 and begin with the notion of redressing sets."

 

[BigJake]

No doubt true. (Sort of. Land of the Giants is supposed to have been the price / effects records-setter.) Nevertheless the effects and sets were not "cutting edge" for the era. Just for television.

My apologies. Since we were talking about a TV series, I figured everyone would know I was talking about TV.

The point being that no matter how relatively advanced Star Trek was for Sixties television, the effects available weren't advanced enough to sell the proposition that "On Star Trek, effects and sets aren't secondary to the story and characters. They go hand-in-hand in creating a believable world."

Trek was not birthed in an era where special effects could go "hand-in-hand" with story and characters on television*. This was a show that had to come up with creative excuses for reusing sets and wardrobes from gangbuster flicks or swords-and-sandals productions; it was birthed in an era where the story and characters had to be strong enough to sell an imaginary world that effects could only deliver in limited fashion ("'Tis your thoughts that now must deck our kings" sort of thing). IMO if you proposition cannot be true of TOS it cannot be generally true of "Trek."

(* Assuming any such era has ever existed, which is debatable.)

 

[BillJ]

No doubt true. (Sort of. Land of the Giants is supposed to have been the price / effects records-setter.) Nevertheless the effects and sets were not "cutting edge" for the era. Just for television.

My apologies. Since we were talking about a TV series, I figured everyone would know I was talking about TV.

The point being that no matter how relatively advanced Star Trek was for Sixties television, the effects available weren't advanced enough to sell the proposition that "On Star Trek, effects and sets aren't secondary to the story and characters. They go hand-in-hand in creating a believable world."

Trek was not birthed in an era where special effects could go "hand-in-hand" with story and characters on television*. This was a show that had to come up with creative excuses for reusing sets and wardrobes from gangbuster flicks or swords-and-sandals productions; it was birthed in an era where the story and characters had to be strong enough to sell an imaginary world that effects could only deliver in limited fashion ("'Tis your thoughts that now must deck our kings" sort of thing). IMO if you proposition cannot be true of TOS it cannot be generally true of "Trek."

(* Assuming any such era has ever existed, which is debatable.)

I thought they did an incredible job of selling their "world" for a 1960's TV series. YMMV.

I feel the same way about a new Trek series as I do about Deep Space Nine in HD: if your not going to spend the money to do it right, don't do it at all.

 

[BillJ]

No I did not mean the folks at Babylon 5 invented re-dressing sets (how could anyone think that? Honestly?)

The wording of it did make it seem that is what you meant. That is why I questioned it.

 

[Melakon]

Star Trek's use of blue screen was new to me at 15 in 1966. I couldn't figure out how they did the outer space scenes. I knew it wasn't cartoon animation, and I knew it wasn't the method used in Irwin Allen's series where miniature effects were by the famed Lydecker brothers, who had cut their teeth on Republic serials.

Trek's method intrigued me enough I began reading American Cinematographer magazine, and even ordered The Technique of Special Effects Cinematography, a professional handbook published by the SMPTE union. It covered everything from Shuftan effects, foreground miniatures, optical printing, chroma-key, and much more. Now even 6 year old kids can do the same thing on a computer with the right software. But it was an eye-opener for me then, because I was only aware of things that could be done in-camera or with traditional stage effects.