2160s or 2390s or?

[Tarek71]

Two ideas for future Trek. One follows on Enterprise with a Daedalus Era 2160s show, the other is a 2390s TNG era continuation.

1. Daedalus Era, 2160's: Wreckage of the Jellyfish and Narada appears just outside the frontier of the still new Federation. Struggle between Romulan ship and Daedalus Class Enterprise over the wreckage. Reconstruction of the wrecked ships and analysis of their designs changes the course of history. An even newer NuTrek! ;-)

2. 2390's, TNG-DS9-VOY: The Supernova that destroyed Romulus was no accident. A dark species from outside the Galaxy used a superweapon to destabilize subspace, strand this Galaxies Fleets and militarys without warp drive or sub space communication. Thus leaving them open to be attacked one by one, by the Alien ships, which can accomplish FTL travel and communication without subspace.

Foiled in that initial plan by Spock (who was aided unknowingly by other Aliens who are survivors of previous wars with this species), the Aliens have spent several years infiltrating the Borg COllective, The Klingon Empire, the Federation, the Dominion and other Powers. 3-D printed reclicas of key personnel now occupy major positions in the militaries and governments.

Minister of Security Garak begins to suspect that the First Minister of Cardassia is not the woman he has known for decades, and later decides to assasinate her after a brilliant young Ministry codebreaker discovers alien broadcasts brilliantly embedded in what appeared to be sub space static passed between her and an Alien Power. Phaser blasts to the alien are ineffective at killing the Replicant and he flees Cardassian space in search of allies to quietly build a resistance to the inevitable invasion.

Turning first to Kira the main charachters of TNG, DS9 and VOY and the current Captain of the new Enterprise-F are assembled covertly one by one, for a final mission to save the galaxy.

Thoughts?

 

[Overgeeked]

Neither. Go back to the Prime Universe and do a Founding of the Federation show in the 2160s or jump ahead to 2464 and explore what the Prime Universe looks like 100 years in the future of the TNG/DS9/VOY era.

 

[Tarek71]

Both of the above are the Prime universe, although the 2160s will now change to open up story possibilities. The Prime Universe has two possibilities that I can see:

1. Follow up on Enterprise, circa 2165 or,

2. Follow up on TNG/DS9/VOY, circa 2392. Each can follow on to what is established, have existing charachters appear, etc.

Enterprise ended with the Federation established. There is no birth of the Federation story to tell now in the Prime timeline. Early years of the Federation is what I propose above, but with a twist to allow for alot more openness in telling stories. It is no longer a foregone conclusion as to what will happen.

It will be impossible to generate real uncertainty or dramatic tension about the survival of this new and experimental idea of a Federation if everyone already knows that it lasts until at least the late 24th century. That certainty needs to be removed and an uncertain future put in its place. This is a way of doing that.

As for post TNG, Ive seen ideas for the 31st Century and a Galactic Federation, etc. All interesting, but I think the 2390s are by far the more likely setting for post TNG. All the existing characters available, and still plenty of questions about the current state and future of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants

 

[Autistoid]

2315. Dead center between tos and TNg.

In reality if a show is good the time line shouldn't matter in the least.

If you have to rely that much from drawing on established canon the show likely doesn't have that much going for it****cough cough enterpirse*******

 

[BillJ]

2260's reboot featuring Kirk and Spock on the Enterprise NCC-1701.

 

[C.E. Evans]

2260's reboot featuring Kirk and Spock on the Enterprise NCC-1701.

Pretty much it.

 

[Tarek71]

2260's reboot featuring Kirk and Spock on the Enterprise NCC-1701.

JJ already did that. Thats what the new movies are. Except he added in that the timeline has been changed to allow for different personal destinies for the characters. I cant imagine a new creative team not wanting to do that, even if a new 3rd take on Kirk, spock and the 1701 were made.

 

[Tarek71]

2315. Dead center between tos and TNg.

In reality if a show is good the time line shouldn't matter in the least.

If you have to rely that much from drawing on established canon the show likely doesn't have that much going for it****cough cough enterpirse*******

Well, the show definitely has to be good. Haha. That's for sure. If it's a reboot from scratch than it doesnt matter when its set. With JJ or Bermanverse, it does matter, since you are keeping the existing timeline of events.

You mean ditch Enterprise? Even on there, B&B used the Borg and the TCW to create some space to say that some events might be happening differently. But Enterprise happened. LOL. It's part of Prime and Nu. Getting rid of it means reboot from scratch. Which is fine by me. But it's a settled part of the two timelines that exist on screen.

 

[Overgeeked]

Both of the above are the Prime universe...

Sorry, but "jellyfish" and "Romulus destroyed" scream Abrams-verse to me. Anything that deals with either should be left to rot.

Enterprise ended with the Federation established. There is no birth of the Federation story to tell now in the Prime timeline. Early years of the Federation is what I propose above, but with a twist to allow for a lot more openness in telling stories. It is no longer a foregone conclusion as to what will happen.

Too right. I did not mean "how did the Federation form", rather I meant "what were those early years like". The beginning of the Fed species actually working together, integrating their tech, integrating their crews, their militaries... could be a lot of fun. See my posts in the at least two other "What's your ideal Trek show" threads.

It will be impossible to generate real uncertainty or dramatic tension about the survival of this new and experimental idea of a Federation if everyone already knows that it lasts until at least the late 24th century. That certainty needs to be removed and an uncertain future put in its place. This is a way of doing that.

Or you simply don't focus on the "if" it works, but rather "how" it works. Pick any TV show besides soap operas. You know before you watch Law & Order, NCIS, Criminal Minds, Star Trek, Buffy, Charmed, House, or any other of dozens of shows that the problem of the week will be solved, but people still tune in. Why? Because they're more interested in the "how" than the "if". This is basically true of all serialized fiction. Novel series, TV shows, comic books...

 

[Hartzilla2007]

2260's reboot featuring Kirk and Spock on the Enterprise NCC-1701.

Pretty much it.

Part of me thinks that if they are going to reboot they should bump the calendar up a few centuries so backstory stuff like Khan doesn't seem so weird, instead of trying to cram everything into just 200 years.

 

[Mage]

Lost Era, between Generations and TNG. Seems like a great era to tell stories in.

 

[Tarek71]

Sorry, but "jellyfish" and "Romulus destroyed" scream Abrams-verse to me. Anything that deals with either should be left to rot.

Hahaha! I hear ya, but the Narada and Spock's ship originate in the Primeverse, and Romulus was destroyed by a Warp Speed supernova that was eventually stopped by a bottle of red goop by Spock. Yeah, I know. It has problems. But that's been established so working with it are the options now.

JJ created an alternate timeline for a reason. Even B&B used the Borg and TCW to create some space for telling stories in Enterprise. I think any writing team is going to want that space that JJ and B&B created. Sure most episodes will be the particulars or "how" they make it from week to week, but whether they make it is the underlying tension. And just having that open ended helps.

Just because JJ could kill off Sulu or Kirk at much earlier times, doesnt mean he will. But any creative team is going to want that space I think.

 

[Relayer1]

Pick up round 10 years after DS9 and Voyager finished.

New premise, new cast and a positive approach to featruring old characters.

And avoid 'Planet of the Week' stories.

 

[Overgeeked]

Lost Era, between Generations and TNG. Seems like a great era to tell stories in.

This would be one of my top choices as well, but it's a bit more limited than some other possibilities. TUC was in what... 2292. TNG season 1 was in 2364. So you've only got a 60-some year gap between them. With an early Federation era you've got the end of ENT (2161) on through to the beginning of TOS (2264) to play with, about 100 years. Not unworkable by any means, but more has to happen in a shorter time span. But then, that could be an argument for the Lost Era. Either way, you're partially limited by canon.

 

[Mage]

Lost Era, between Generations and TNG. Seems like a great era to tell stories in.

This would be one of my top choices as well, but it's a bit more limited than some other possibilities. TUC was in what... 2292. TNG season 1 was in 2364. So you've only got a 60-some year gap between them. With an early Federation era you've got the end of ENT (2161) on through to the beginning of TOS (2264) to play with, about 100 years. Not unworkable by any means, but more has to happen in a shorter time span. But then, that could be an argument for the Lost Era. Either way, you're partially limited by canon.

I see what you mean, and agree with the limitations of Lost Era first Birth Of The Federation. For me, the biggest reason to do either one of those settings, is remaining in the Alpha Quadrant. Even during TNG's run, there was still so much to explore in our own little corner of the universe. So I'd love to see our heroes making first contact with species we already now, finding worlds we are already familiair with, but seeing them through their eyes, those we see it for the first time, not the eyes of those we are already used to it.

 

[Tarek71]

Lost Era, between Generations and TNG. Seems like a great era to tell stories in.

There are three points that could be picked up in the Prime timeline, the 2160's, 2310's and 2390's. I left out the 2310s because in addition to being a TOS sequel, it would also be a TNG prequel. That somewhat limits the show. It's about 2315 now, but Spock and Bones are dead, so no appearences from them, even though they should be alive in 2315, Scotty is trapped on the Jenolen and Kirk is trapped in the Nexus. The Romulans dont reappeat till the 2360s, etc etc. Those may not seem like a big deal, but they are limits that a new creative team might not want to deal with.

The time for a direct TOS sequel was in the 1980s. Make the Next Generation, be literally the Next Generation. Enterprise - A with new cast, etc. Saavik's generation, not the 2360s.

 

[Overgeeked]

There are three points that could be picked up in the Prime timeline, the 2160's, 2310's and 2390's. I left out the 2310s because in addition to being a TOS sequel, it would also be a TNG prequel. That somewhat limits the show.

In your opinion.

It's about 2315 now...

What?

but Spock and Bones are dead, so no appearences from them, even though they should be alive in 2315, Scotty is trapped on the Jenolen and Kirk is trapped in the Nexus.

No reason to have any of them appear at all.

The Romulans don't reappear till the 2360s

Yet there was no on-screen use of their disappearance. So the Romulans could play a major part of a Lost Era series. Hell, the Romulans decision to withdraw could be part of the series. The were around at least till TUC, no reason to assume they disappeared immediately after TUC.

Those may not seem like a big deal, but they are limits that a new creative team might not want to deal with.

Honestly, no greater than the limits to the creative team of any other Trek show.

 

[Tarek71]

In your opinion.

No, it does limit it. Any prequel is.

What?

Counting forward from TOS. That would be the approx. year "now".

No reason to have any of them appear at all.

Plenty of reasons for them to appear in a TOS sequel. Berman and JJ both used them, despite it being a bigger stretch.

Yet there was no on-screen use of their disappearance.

Use? It was established that they are not seen again by the Federation until the 2360s. The "Tomed Incident" is their last established contact.

Honestly, no greater than the limits to the creative team of any other Trek show.

Not really. B&B went forward into the future in every series until Enterprise, and thereupon established changes in the timeline from the Borg and TCW. JJ didnt even blink. Immediately established an alternate reality. The only two times there was a prequel, they did what many creative teams would do, create space for a more open ended future.

 

[Overgeeked]

No, it does limit it. Any prequel is.

Again, just as any story set in any pre-existing setting would. It's no more restrictive than TNG needing to not contradict TOS, or any of the later series needing to not contradict those that had gone before. It's not more restrictive, unless you artificially place additional restrictions on it, such as insisting it's a direct sequel to TOS, including the characters, and that it must be "the same number of years ahead of TOS as the real-world is ahead of the original production of TOS", which is quite a silly restriction to make. TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT did not follow this restriction, I see no need to insist on it now.

Use? It was established that they are not seen again by the Federation until the 2360s. The "Tomed Incident" is their last established contact.

And there's no reason to place a Lost Era series after the Tomed Incident. You could just as easily set if before the Tomed Incident. That's the great thing about imagining a pie-in-the-sky extra show to a TV franchise that's laid fallow for the last decade.

Not really. B&B went forward into the future in every series until Enterprise, and thereupon established changes in the timeline from the Borg and TCW. JJ didnt even blink. Immediately established an alternate reality. The only two times there was a prequel, they did what many creative teams would do, create space for a more open ended future.

Again, we're not talking about an infinite space. It doesn't need to be. Any show that has to exist in the "Star Trek universe" is already restricted in a lot of ways. Going for something that's set "only" 50-60 years before TNG is no more restrictive than something that's set "only" 150 years before TOS. You still have to conform to canon (mostly), and you still have to tell interesting stories with interesting characters. There's no minimum year requirement in any direction.

TOS was set 300 years in the future. TNG was set 100 years into the future of TOS. TNG overlapped with DS9; DS9 overlapped with VOY. They did move ahead in a linear timeline with each season of the shows as they were produced, but they're not set "in the future" in the same way that TNG was set "in the future" of TOS. There's no century-long gap.

An interesting story can take place in a single hour, to say nothing of a day, week, fortnight, month, season, year, or decade. Saying that there's not enough space in a 50-60 year gap for good stories shows a fundamental lack of understanding of basic storytelling. You can think that all you'd like, but you'd still be wrong.

 

[Tarek71]

No it's much, much more restricting for a prequel than for a sequel. The sequel is moving forward into the open future, They can blow up Romulus in the 2380s, but the Lost Era prequel cannot, for instance. This doesnt mean prequels cant be awesome. Just more restrictive, and I dont see any future creative team doing that.

Yes, if you dont plan on using any actors from TOS, it matters less if you fudge with the Lost Era dates. The same number of years makes sense if you do, so that you dont have conflicts with the actors. Nothing "artificial" about it. It's perfectly organic to use that time.

JJ is using it with Star Wars. SW is being set about 30 years forward so he can use the same actors. He COULD set 6 months after ROTJ and just not use those characters. He doesnt HAVE to have Han and Leia and Luke, etc. But he did, and any producer would do that too.

If a Lost Era show was made, they will have appearences for Saavik, Chekov, Sulu, maybe even Kirk if they could swing it. Do they HAVE to? No, but they will.

I am proposing doing what JJ actually did and what B&B actually did, and for the same reasons they give. You know, actual show runners and producers. Do they not get storytelling, or do you not understand storytellers?