I've been watching TOS for the first time and I've noticed the Enterprise never seems to travel faster than warp 1 unless it's an emergency. Other series (especially Enterprise) make a big deal out of high warp speeds, is the Federation really that small in the 23rd century?
Why the low warp factors?
- Thread starter brian577
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Maybe in Kirk's day it was more about the voyage than the destination.
Something you'll notice in TOS an awful lot. They spend a lot of time within a system as opposed to later shows with have more 'between points' travel going on. I always just figured that it made more sense to stay around warp one while in the inner-planet-zone of a start system, then hit 'warp six' when you're free and clear to navigate.
Because they were making up this universe and its rules as they went along. They didn't have it all worked out in advance. They just made up terminology, and over time, certain conventional usages gradually emerged.
Heck, keep in mind that in "The Cage," "time warp factor seven" was treated as a normal cruising speed, whereas later on "warp seven" came to be treated as emergency speed. These were just random numbers at first.
But yeah, the idea is that the UFP is substantially bigger in the TNG era, requiring faster engines and a recalibrated warp scale where the same number represents a higher speed. Although in fact, the assumptions made by TOS's creators required the Federation to be far, far bigger than it's assumed to be in more modern productions, spanning a sizeable percentage of the galaxy and stretching clear to its rim. Or maybe they just thought the galaxy was a lot smaller than it really is.
Normal cruising in "The Cage"? The only time we hear the speed of the ship mentioned, it's an emergency call - a dash to aid the survivors of the Columbia.
Probably a very short dash at that, because plot logic would imply that the Talosians only lured in ships that were fairly close to their planet, and tech logic would seem to establish the distance as 18 ly sharp. 18 ly is a short hop in TOS terms, and a valid application for a starship's non-sustainable dash speed...
On Kirk's use of low warp factors at departure from star systems, we could easily argue he is going to accelerate to higher speeds once clearing said systems. Our TNG heroes might trust their navigation computers more and apply higher warp factors from the get-go.
Timo Saloniemi
Probably a very short dash at that, because plot logic would imply that the Talosians only lured in ships that were fairly close to their planet, and tech logic would seem to establish the distance as 18 ly sharp. 18 ly is a short hop in TOS terms, and a valid application for a starship's non-sustainable dash speed...
On Kirk's use of low warp factors at departure from star systems, we could easily argue he is going to accelerate to higher speeds once clearing said systems. Our TNG heroes might trust their navigation computers more and apply higher warp factors from the get-go.
Timo Saloniemi
Or maybe the "edge" of the galaxy isn't the outer edge of the spiral, but the top of the arms, which are only about 3,000 LY thick out here if I recall, which is a lot closer than the ~20,000 LY out to the rim.
Or maybe the "edge" is the very distinct phenomenon which we see in three TOS episodes but which AFAWK does not exist in "our" universe at all. Much of the Trek Milky Way might lie beyond that fairly proximal edge, but that wouldn't necessarily make it any less edgy...
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
Well, of course that's the only thing it can realistically be, but that's a rationalization after the fact. I'm speaking metatextually here, admitting that the fiction is actually fiction (shocking and blasphemous, I know) and saying that the assumptions of the people who made it up in its early form were different from the assumptions that other creators decades later settled on. The idea behind TOS was that the ship was ranging far beyond civilization into the great uncharted wilds of the galaxy, but as TNG and DS9 became more about recurring races and ongoing political arcs, it became more and more necessary to put the key worlds close enough together that ships could travel between them in days instead of weeks or months, so the presumed size of the Federation became much smaller.
...Not that TOS would ever have been spending much time within the UFP, or in the vicinity of those key worlds. The Klingon homeworld was never discussed let alone visited, and all the encounters with the Klingons were indicated to take place far away from the core territories of the two sides. Only once was a major UFP world other than Earth visited, and that was in an episode where the ship was already tasked with doing local politics rather than exploring the distant reaches of space.
TOS might well have described the same universe as TNG+, in terms of the locations of the key worlds and the distances between them. Not even the speed at which our hero starship moved between the worlds was explicitly different; it certainly wouldn't have been out of place for Kirk's ship to shuttle between Earth, Romulus and Qo'noS the same way Picard's ship did.
Since TNG+ never visited "the edge of the galaxy" again, we don't know if the assumptions of the shows would have differed enough to manifest as an observably different treatment of this phenomenon or region... Perhaps it was always within a few days' cruise of Picard's weekly adventures, too?
Timo Saloniemi
TOS might well have described the same universe as TNG+, in terms of the locations of the key worlds and the distances between them. Not even the speed at which our hero starship moved between the worlds was explicitly different; it certainly wouldn't have been out of place for Kirk's ship to shuttle between Earth, Romulus and Qo'noS the same way Picard's ship did.
Since TNG+ never visited "the edge of the galaxy" again, we don't know if the assumptions of the shows would have differed enough to manifest as an observably different treatment of this phenomenon or region... Perhaps it was always within a few days' cruise of Picard's weekly adventures, too?
Timo Saloniemi
If that were the case than Kirk's 5 year mission would have taken 100 years. I agree with Vance, it's probably just for in system travel.
You need to understand that during the show's production, there was no set rule as to how fast 'Warp 1, 2, 3, etc.' really was.
Years after the show, the Franz-Josepph Star Trek Tech manual had as (C*WF^3) (ie warp factor cubed); BUT for example - in the episode That Which Survives - after the 1701 is thrown 990 LY - at Warp 8.3 the navigator states they'll return to the planet they were at in 11.3 hours.
Thus for that episode at Warp 8.3 they can go 87.6 LY PER HOUR.
Where if you use the TOS tech manual formula, Warp 8.3 = 571 * C (The speed of light) = 1.5 LY per day.
Big difference - but again, during the show - any given Warp Factor moved the ship at the 'speed of plot'.
Credit where it's due: the warp factor-cubed formula was not introduced by Franz Joseph, but by The Making of Star Trek by Stephen E. Whitfield and Gene Roddenberry in 1968. At least, it implies the formula; it gives equivalences for four warp factors, three of which are consistent with the formula: warp 1 = 1 x speed of light, warp 3 = 24c, warp 6 = 216c, warp 8 = 512c. (The "24" is probably a typo for 27.)
TOS was rather consistent when you look back at it. Slow in system, especially within the 3rd or 4th planetary orbit, crazy fast between star systems and slowed down when going between galaxies. This even carried over to "The Voyage Home". Of course, the production folks seemed to be writing for a much more explored galaxy. I wouldn't be surprised if Warp 1-2 between the stars turned out to be pretty fast.
TNG picked it's own standard which Voyager appears to have adhered to. It does look like the "actual speeds" are constant when in or between star systems but somewhat slower than TOS' "actual speeds".
The times we see Kirk order "Warp 1" as they are moving out could be them taking it easy to get out from the "shallow waters" to "deep waters" and then accelerating out once they knew what the space weather and warp terrain was like.
TNG picked it's own standard which Voyager appears to have adhered to. It does look like the "actual speeds" are constant when in or between star systems but somewhat slower than TOS' "actual speeds".
The times we see Kirk order "Warp 1" as they are moving out could be them taking it easy to get out from the "shallow waters" to "deep waters" and then accelerating out once they knew what the space weather and warp terrain was like.
Or maybe it's that 23rd-century engines needed time to "warm up," so you preferentially started them in "low gear" and then increased speed in stages to your cruising velocity, with jumping directly to high warp being something you only did in emergencies -- which is why we often saw Kirk order low warp factors at the ends of episodes, after the crisis had passed. But 24th-century engines are more advanced, so they can more easily jump to a higher warp factor.
I am not buying the warmup factor, especially with Scott in charge.
Did we ever witness Kirk's ship launch directly to anything higher than warp two?
I checked "Obsession", and contrary to my recollection, Kirk doesn't order a direct jump to warp eight there; instead, there's a cut in the action during the possible acceleration phase.
Even in "Balance of Terror", Kirk's panicky "Full astern! Emergency warp speed!" lacks explicit mention of warp factors. Perhaps an acceleration was necessary even in this dire emergency? After all, the Romulan plasma bolt appears to be capable of acceleration as well, as it doesn't cross the initial distance in a split second yet does keep up with the starship later on.
Timo Saloniemi
I checked "Obsession", and contrary to my recollection, Kirk doesn't order a direct jump to warp eight there; instead, there's a cut in the action during the possible acceleration phase.
Even in "Balance of Terror", Kirk's panicky "Full astern! Emergency warp speed!" lacks explicit mention of warp factors. Perhaps an acceleration was necessary even in this dire emergency? After all, the Romulan plasma bolt appears to be capable of acceleration as well, as it doesn't cross the initial distance in a split second yet does keep up with the starship later on.
Timo Saloniemi
That's taking the miracle worker thing pretty literal.
If Scott is able to invent warp drives which don't need a warm up (assuming there was such thing), why didn't he invent the holodecks by the second season? He was Scotty, not Leonardo da Vinci.
Yes. Although I think that the ship accelerates through the other warp factors. So if Kirk says, "Ahead, Warp 6" then they accelerate through 1,2,3,4, and 5. I would think TNG does the same thing since IIRC, they mention an "acceleration curve".
"Tomorrow Is Yesterday" - Enterprise accelerates to Warp 3 upon leaving orbit (and then continues on accelerating.)
KIRK: Ahead warp factor three, Mister Sulu.
"Errand of Mercy" - Enterprise accelerates to Warp 7 from what sounds like after they stopped at the "designated position".
KIRK: Lay in a course for Organia, Mister Sulu.
SULU: Aye, aye, sir.
SPOCK: Negotiating with the Organians will be time-consuming, Captain, and time is one thing we'll have the least of.
KIRK: We won't get it by talking about it. The trigger's been pulled. We have to get there before the hammer falls. Ahead warp factor seven.
"The Deadly Years" - Kirk orders Warp 8, but I'm unsure whether Enterprise's power loss slowed it down from Warp 5 to sublight or if they were still at Warp 5.
KIRK: Kirk, commanding Enterprise, out. Mister Sulu, course one eight eight degrees, mark fourteen. Speed, warp factor eight. Stand by.
"The Immunity Syndrome" - after they blow up the amoeba Kirk orders Warp 5 once they pick up the shuttle.
KYLE: Prepare to receive shuttlecraft. Received shuttlecraft. Hangar doors closed. Hangar deck pressurising.
KIRK: Mister Chekov, lay in a course for Starbase Six. Ahead warp factor five. I'm still looking forward to a nice period of rest and relaxation on some lovely planet.
"For the World Is Hollow..." Kirk orders Warp 3 after engaging the missiles at sublight.
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