Why is Star Trek: Nemesis hated so much?

[Damian]

My usual running joke is that I'm one of the 10 people that actually liked Nemesis. It's not the best Star Trek film, but I never thought it was the worse. Things I liked about it included a movie that finally featured the Romulans in a prominent role, there seemed to me to be more scenes for the rest of the crew (Troi and Geordi in particular had more to do). It had a pretty intense battle scene and I thought the Scimitar had a great design--Picard's description that "she's a predator" was spot on. While I wasn't a big fan of Schinzon being a clone of Picard, Tom Hardy was good in the role--and I can get into the theme and metaphors it presented for Picard, esp. of Schinzon claiming to be a mirror for Picard.

There were a few inconsistencies that bugged me of course. Worf suddenly being in Starfleet again after leaving at the end of DS9, Picard's Academy photo showing him to be bald when we knew he had hair (though I suppose it's possible a young, rebellious Picard shaved his head). The Remans were a bit over the top, but I guess what's a Star Trek film without a creepy looking villain. And B-4 was basically unnecessary.

But of all the films this one always seems to receive the most vitriol, to the point it's almost insinuated anyone who liked it must have a screw lose. TFF is generally considered one of the poorest of the films, but even that doesn't receive the amount of hate I've seen on Nemesis. When I came out of the theater after watching it my first thought was that it was a decent Star Trek film, not the best, but I actually considered it the 2nd best TNG film after First Contact. It was released at the worse possible time, competing with a Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings and a James Bond film. Why Paramount chose then to release it is anyone's guess. Even First Contact would have had trouble against that kind of competition.

I've watched it a number of times since it came out and I don't find my opinion changing on it--in fact after reading some of the novels that take place around it (the A Time To...books and Vulcan's Soul in particular) I've liked it even a bit more.

 

[XCV330]

On scheduling: Paramount execs probably watched it, realized it was garbage and threw it too the wolves. There was no good time or place to release Nemesis. The franchise had already thrown away whatever good favor they'd accrued from First Contact with Insurrection. Nemesis would have been a bad two-parter for TNG (Insurrection would have been a so-so two parter. Where exactly did that 70million dollar budget go?) They had to knock it out of the ballpark with Nemesis to keep going. The cast was aging, 90's nostalgia was NOT a thing in 2002, and the movie just doesn't feel cinematic.

Attack of the Clones came out in 2002 also. It too is not a good movie, though no doubt it has a few admirers. It may be a worse movie. But it at least looks cinematic, and if nothing else it pointed to leading towards something more interesting soon. Nemesis just looked like a bland cul de sac. Which it was.

 

[2takesfrakes]

The writing was complete & utter shite for STAR TREK: Nemesis. The script was really, really bad. Shinzon, whose origins are of great import to the story, is not well-developed. He's a clone obtained ... how? He's obviously a Man of Power & Influence whose engaged in many battles in many sectors and yet? He's never seen a non-Romulan woman (a species he's bigoted towards) and when he finally does encounter one, decides to (needlessly) mind-rape her in a mental gang-bang with his loathsome Viceroy, whose equally underdeveloped as a character. Shinzon's discovery of B-4 is completely neglected in the script. The only line Shinzon has on the subject is where he informs Picard that the android was "discovered." Where ... how ... never mentioned.

John Logan seems to have handed in a rough draft and Stuart Baird directs it in such a manner in which he seems disinterested in the subject matter. The action scenes are nicely paced, but they're lacking in any build-up, really. And the cinematography is really rough ... the cast looks like total shit and nobody seems to care, making this movie. The Romulan makeups look like shit and the CGI is very obvious and apparent, in this film. "Close enough is good enough" was clearly the order of the day. The set-ups and payoffs in this film are very unsurprising and it just feels like everyone involved in the making of this flick is bored. On a personal note, I hate the way the wedding was handled. Really inappropriate ...

 

[Romulan_spy]

Things I liked about it included a movie that finally featured the Romulans in a prominent role,

Except the Romulans did not have a prominent role in the movie. Schinzon took center stage and the Romulans were cast aside as background characters basically. We get the intro with the Romulan Senate and a couple scenes where some Romulans nag Schinzon about his plans and that's about it. The movie was all about Schinzon, not the Romulans.

And instead of the Romulans being a formidable rival to the Federation like we got in TNG, we get Romulans who kowtow to some human clone for him to conquer the Federation for them.

 

[Kor]

Worf's computer-altered voice was weird, too.

Kor

 

[Damian]

Worf's computer-altered voice was weird, too.

Kor

Yeah, true. The Remans were one thing, since they were new. But why would Worf sound different?

I've always just found it interesting the hatred this movie seems to have. I'm also curious to see who the other 9 people who liked it are. I know they're out there somewhere .

 

[Romulan_spy]

When I think of Romulans and a nemesis to Picard, I think of Tomalak from TNG. Tomalak and Picard had some great moments. Star Trek: Nemesis featuring Picard and Tomalak would have made a lot more sense considering their history than making Picard's nemesis some hitherto unknown clone.

 

[XCV330]

I sometimes wonder if wiping out Romulus and its star system in 09 was someone's way of pounding a lid on Nemesis' coffin.

 

[Damian]

When I think of Romulans and a nemesis to Picard, I think of Tomalak from TNG. Tomalak and Picard had some great moments. Star Trek: Nemesis featuring Picard and Tomalak would have made a lot more sense considering their history than making Picard's nemesis some hitherto unknown clone.

Yeah, I agree the Schinzon angle sort of interfered with the Romulan element. It's sort of a mixed bag for me because one of the themes of the movie was would Picard do as Schinzon did if their roles were reversed. That would be lost with a different character. And I did like Tom Hardy in the role (sort of like Luckinbill as Sybok--I wasn't a big fan of a never before seen half brother for Spock-but I can't knock Luckinbill's portrayal).

 

[Galileo7]

1) Schinzon being a Picard clone. Maybe B-4 [like Lore] should have been the main antagonist against Picard.

2) Remans.
3) Scimitar design and interior sets. The Bridge looks like a stage play set.

 

[Kor]

Yeah, true. The Remans were one thing, since they were new. But why would Worf sound different?

I've always just found it interesting the hatred this movie seems to have. I'm also curious to see who the other 9 people who liked it are. I know they're out there somewhere .

Perhaps the voice change was triggered by his second puberty in "Insurrection."

Okay, I think I'm going to make this part of my head canon now.

Kor

 

[BigDaveX]

John Logan seems to have handed in a rough draft and Stuart Baird directs it in such a manner in which he seems disinterested in the subject matter.

That is pretty much what happened. Logan handed in a first draft in which would have had Patrick Stewart playing both Picard and Shinzon, and the final battle between the Enterprise and Scimitar taking place in orbit of Earth. Then he rewrote it to change Shinzon into a younger man (due to Stewart not wanting to do both roles) and moved the final battle to the Bassen Rift (to make the TWOK parallel more obvious). And that, with a few minor changes that the technical advisers mandated (i.e. not putting the Scimitar's warp core on the bridge), is essentially what got filmed.

As for Baird, he apparently just viewed it as a paycheck until his next directing gig came along. Which, of course, it never did.

 

[XCV330]

As for Baird, he apparently just viewed it as a paycheck until his next directing gig came along. Which, of course, it never did.

"Oh come on say it! The director was an idiot!" -Marina Sirtis, 2014

 

[Kor]

In an article in the February 2003 issue of Starlog, Baird said that he hoped NEM would be a big hit, and that he would "seriously consider" directing another Trek movie if he was offered the job. He stated, "it would be very nice to be offered the chance to direct another Star Trek movie." (source)

I shudder at the thought.

Kor

 

[Admiral Archer]

Why is Nemesis hated so much?
Because it managed to do what no other Star Trek film could: it sucked so bad it killed the franchise for almost a decade.

Nemesis deserves all the hate it gets, and more. If the many scenes from the ending that were deleted were to be reintegrated into the film and made canon, the film might improve to be on par with Star Trek V: The Final Frontier. As it stands, the only salvageable thing from Nemesis is the score by Jerry Goldsmith, which was a work of genius, as always.

 

[Dukhat]

Except the Romulans did not have a prominent role in the movie. Schinzon took center stage and the Romulans were cast aside as background characters basically. We get the intro with the Romulan Senate and a couple scenes where some Romulans nag Schinzon about his plans and that's about it. The movie was all about Schinzon, not the Romulans.

And instead of the Romulans being a formidable rival to the Federation like we got in TNG, we get Romulans who kowtow to some human clone for him to conquer the Federation for them.

And what's funny is that when the movie bombed, Rick Berman reportedly commented that "I guess the fans didn't want to see a movie about Romulans."

 

[JaxsBrokenHeart]

One of the things that hurts Nemesis in fan reception is that there isn't that that many enjoyable aspects for a lot of people to latch on to, especially in comparison to other films that got mixed opinions.

-It lacks the ponderous tone and epic scope of the Motion Picture
-There's no real sense of adventure and great character moments for the entire crew as in Search for Spock
-The enjoyable chemistry of the main character's camaraderie and presence of an interesting antagonist as in Final Frontier is nonexistent.
-Generations' memorable cinematography and novel meeting between two iconic characters is nowhere to be seen
-Anything like Insurrection's lighter moments and levity in its scenes are replaced with an unpleasant and unsatisfying cynicism in plot and in feel

Honestly it feels like a movie that got all the negatives of the Trek film series with few of the positives, with grimdark garbage like the mind rape nonsense on top.

 

[ItIsGreen]

Overall my feelings have softened towards it a little in the intervening years (I watched it about a year ago and it wasn't quite as shit as I remembered), but it is a piss poor movie, for all of the reasons mentioned above.

There are the bones of a decent film in the overall plot, but the writing, and especially the directing, are atrocious. As others have mentioned, Stuard Baird just didn't have the skill and/or experience, nor the care for the subject material. A number of the TNG cast are competent directors, and any one of them could have done a better job than Baird. (Even better, get Leonard Nimoy in to direct it).

IMHO, it could have been improved by:

Cut the B-4 subplot entirely.

Tom Hardy as Shinzon - I absolutely love Tom Hardy NOW, but he was very young when Nemesis was filmed and I feel he was miscast as Shinzon. In fact I'd have got rid of the character altogether.

Keep all the character stuff that was cut in the film.

Get rid of the mind-rape stuff. Give the women more to do - especially Beverly.

Data's death - I know Brent Spiner didn't want to keep playing Data, but if it were me I wouldn't have had him die. If Spiner insisted, I'd at least have done it a different way.

And what's funny is that when the movie bombed, Rick Berman reportedly commented that "I guess the fans didn't want to see a movie about Romulans."

I'd love to have the Romulans used properly as the antagonists in a movie. Too bad we never got it for one reason or another.

I did however like Donatra and her honourable Romulans assisting the Enterprise during the final battle and the sense that there may be a thawing of relations between the Romulans and Federation at the end of the film - that actually felt very Star Trek to me.

 

[Vger23]

I don't hate Nemesis...so count me as #2 on your list of 10.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't hate it. I certainly think it is better than Insurrection and Generations. My complaints generally revolve around the stupid jeep scene and Data's death. Other than that, the Remans were interesting enough, and the ship chase inside the Scimitar was pretty cool.