• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Why Didn't Harry Get Promoted?

The case can certainly be made. He could also spend just a year as a jg to train in the new department and then get full-lieutenant-hood and be a chief of security.
I like this. Day of his promotion; 'Look, this is literally just to get you familiar with the new department. Once the probationary period is done you're getting bumped to a full lieutenant and you'll likely run the whole thing. Considering how much, just on the record, you did that was cross-departmental, you've got sharp eyes and a broad view. We need both out a security chief.'
 
Day of his promotion; 'Look, this is literally just to get you familiar with the new department. Once the probationary period is done you're getting bumped to a full lieutenant and you'll likely run the whole thing. Considering how much, just on the record, you did that was cross-departmental, you've got sharp eyes and a broad view. We need both out a security chief.'

I have two possibilities that exist within the realm of logic.

First possibility was that while Harry received a perfunctory boost to LTJG (all non-Maquis Starfleet personnel received a similar boost upon Voyager's return), the reprimand that Janeway chained to his ankle held him from further advancement, at least for a time. Although the reprimand was not justified (Harry was in an altered state), his hero worship of Janeway was such that he didn't fight it. As a result, he wound up in some second-tier berth where advancemebt was harder to manage. Ultimately, his sheer competence got him sufficient notice that he was able to have a respectable career.

Second, possibly Harry wound up under the command of someone like Kirk or Riker (the kind who would use the 3-centimeter thick book on new species protocols for toilet paper, were it not for the fact that this is the future and they probably have some equivalent of the three seashells). They completely ignored the reprimand and gave Harry a fast-track position. Or, possibly, Harry was convinced to contest the reprimand (possibly by Tom, who's smart enough to question authority) and won. Either way, he was able to secure a fast-track posting that would allow his considerable skills to get noticed, and put to good use. It doesn't happen overnight, but he gains his own command in time.

Note that these are logical conclusions, and logical conclusions are not always followed, where rank and position are concerned. I could probably give eight or ten examples...
 
Reprimands didn't seem to matter much to Worf. Straight up murder in the eyes of Starfleet and 5 years later he's a lt commander in the command division.

Gets told he may never get his own command after another reprimand. 5 years after that Picard promotes him to XO of the Enterprise and 2 years after that to its captain.

2 reprimands and he reached captain in less time between Riker being a full commander and reaching captain. Granted in Riker's case it was by choice but still not bad for someone who killed a guy and abandoned a critical mission in the middle of the war.

I could see Harry taking longer to get the big chair by choice. What he went through on Voyager I could see making him a little gunshy at leadership and instead sticking with helping people in security and strategic operations for space sectors. Maybe even taking as long as until 2400 to accept command of the Rhode Island
 
Reprimands didn't seem to matter much to Worf. Straight up murder in the eyes of Starfleet and 5 years later he's a lt commander in the command division.

Gets told he may never get his own command after another reprimand. 5 years after that Picard promotes him to XO of the Enterprise and 2 years after that to its captain.

2 reprimands and he reached captain in less time between Riker being a full commander and reaching captain. Granted in Riker's case it was by choice but still not bad for someone who killed a guy and abandoned a critical mission in the middle of the war.

I could see Harry taking longer to get the big chair by choice. What he went through on Voyager I could see making him a little gunshy at leadership and instead sticking with helping people in security and strategic operations for space sectors. Maybe even taking as long as until 2400 to accept command of the Rhode Island
Worf didn't murder Duras. It was a Klingon law right of vengeance.

His reprimand for that situation was for leaving his combadge and going AWOL to perform the act.

As for "CHANGE OF HEART", he didn't get anything official, reprimand or otherwise, due to the secret nature of that mission. And even with what Sisko said at the end, given Picard's very lengthy service and high amount of clout, his word certainly would have helped getting Worf his own command.
 
Harry wound up under the command of someone like Kirk or Riker (the kind who would use the 3-centimeter thick book on new species protocols for toilet paper, were it not for the fact that this is the future and they probably have some equivalent of the three seashells). They completely ignored the reprimand and gave Harry a fast-track position. Or, possibly, Harry was convinced to contest the reprimand (possibly by Tom, who's smart enough to question authority) and won.
So long as he didn't get put under Jellico, most senior staff would look at the reprimand, then look at everything going on, and conclude Janeway was well out of line and used Harry as a punching bag for her own frustrations because she knew Harry wouldn't fight her, and he had given her the thinnest of excuses to swing.

If it's someone like Jellico Harry's going to be given the greased end of the stick and then told to climb or die. Which Harry would do anyway because he is lowkey one of the best officers you can have, but he still won't get acknowledged. 'Jellico' would just grump that 'You're showcasing acceptable performance in spite of your spotty record.'


I could see Harry taking longer to get the big chair by choice. What he went through on Voyager I could see making him a little gunshy at leadership and instead sticking with helping people in security and strategic operations for space sectors. Maybe even taking as long as until 2400 to accept command of the Rhode Island

Could definitely see him intentionally bouncing from department to department to keep a varied career and claim 'i just want to keep my options open.' Yet a perceptive command officer would see Harry's trying to sabotage himself ... without sabotaging things by way of the constant departmental shuffel.
 
I qualified in the eyes of starfleet it was murder and even though by Klingon law it was justified as Picard tells him he isnt in a Klingon uniform and must follow Starfleet rules not Klingon ones. Thus a just a reprimand.
 
So long as he didn't get put under Jellico, most senior staff would look at the reprimand, then look at everything going on, and conclude Janeway was well out of line and used Harry as a punching bag for her own frustrations because she knew Harry wouldn't fight her, and he had given her the thinnest of excuses to swing.

Hmmm, not sure. Janeway's one of Starfleet's most decorated officers, and the template for the Training Hologram. Suggesting that given the choice between her word and that of a guy who was an ensign for seven years... people will tend to assume that if she threw Harry under the hover-bus, he deserved it. Only Harry's sheer competence (or outside intervention from someone who won't take Janeway at her word) will get him out of that shadow.

If it's someone like Jellico Harry's going to be given the greased end of the stick and then told to climb or die. Which Harry would do anyway because he is lowkey one of the best officers you can have, but he still won't get acknowledged. 'Jellico' would just grump that 'You're showcasing acceptable performance in spite of your spotty record.'

Because Harry does his job well and doesn't complain, Jellico would most likely appreciate him a lot. Look at how he was with Data... a few days under Jellico's command, and Data was rocking command red.
 
a few days under Jellico's command, and Data was rocking command red.
I have fairly strong opinions on Jellico, and the debate on if Data was being a needlessly compliant Yes-Man or if Data saw himself as having no ego to bruise or emotions to hurt thus would take the brunt of Jellico's ... frankly appalingly bullying command style is a long debate.

Harry, I think, would manage, but Jellico feels like a man that would hold past write-ups against someone prescicely to encourage compliance and to keep them from opening their mouths.
 
That's possible. And someone may even retcon in that
one of the seven rather pathetic Harry Kims we saw on Lower Decks WAS our Harry.
After all, promotion-related cruelty for laughs is a normal thing for them. Remember that Boimler got busted to ensign for no good reason in the second season, and Rutherford literally snatched a promotion from another character in the fourth (and unlike Boimler, this injustice was never rectified). If they think that's funny, having Harry locked at ensign for decades is right up their alley.
 
Last edited:
And while Hoshi wasn't promoted, neither was any other ENT cast member. Even T'Pol was commissioned at equivalent rank. Since Starfleet in that era seemed to be going by the old Royal Navy traditions, with no "half-pip" ranks, it's possible that promotions were less common.

If the holoprogram is taken at face value, we don’t know enough. They could all been promoted in that timeframe and earned an extra pip or two, and been assigned as first officers or captains on other ships elsewhere during the Romulan war, and then took a temporary demotion in rank weeks before the founding of the Federation upon returning to Enterprise. And the holodeck historical logs made an error in literally demoting the crew when creating the program. A not implausible theory as Archer never had more that two ranked commanders at a time, and having four first officers on the bridge, or three captains on a ship that been decommissioned would be weird. Not to mention that Archer, while never promoting anyone, never demoted anybody either even when he should have (see Trip in “Cogenitor”) or even suggested that it would impact his career or Trip should resign his commission over it.

All we know is that within four years of the Federation’s founding, Hoshi retired at the rank at Lieutenant Commander, indicating that half pips have existed since the beginning of the Federation.

And before the NX-01 was launched, Archer was ranked commander and Trip a lieutenant a decade prior in the NX Project. So it was not like United Earth Starfleet had a problem with promotions in general.


Hoshi is a more complex case as honestly she was done far more "dirty" with her being an ENS in the first place, but IMO if you accept that and that she had no change in position (bear in mind, unlike Kim JG doesn't appear to be available), then her not being promoted makes sense.

Also remember that Hoshi got expelled from STC. And was only brought on because Archer needed a linguist and was friends with him.

Maybe the ensign rank in the ENT era was meant to cover brevet ensign ranks as much as it covered for the rank of lieutenant commander.

Aside from Janeway, who couldn't go above captain for obvious reasons, every other ranked character got either a promotion or a commission.
Chakotay - Commission reactivated at previous rank of LCDR.
Tuvok - Promoted from LT to LCDR.
B'Elanna - Promoted to LTJG and chief engineer... for hitting a superior.
Tom - Commission reactivated at LTJG. Reduced to ENS, promoted back to LTJG.
Harry - Never promoted.
EMH, Neelix, Kes, Seven - No rank.

Chakotay, B’Elanna, and Tom were a part of the Maquis, while Tuvok went undercover to spy on the Maquis.

Two things can bee gained from these observations.

Maybe Harry should have shown some signs of being a Maquis rebel, or be willing to go undercover and act like one of them?

Seems like Janeway had more sympathy for those that had anything to do with the Maquis, and was protecting them from prosecution from Starfleet before they arrived home. While Harry did not need protecting since he was squeaky clean.
 
Ranking up should not be because of protection. Tom had far more reasons to be held at ensign or even warrant officer or a temporary commission than Harry ever did.
 
If the holoprogram is taken at face value, we don’t know enough. They could all been promoted in that timeframe and earned an extra pip or two, and been assigned as first officers or captains on other ships elsewhere during the Romulan war, and then took a temporary demotion in rank weeks before the founding of the Federation upon returning to Enterprise.

My head canon is that most of the ship's officers weren't there in 2161. Riker just slotted them into his holoprogram because they were with Archer on his most critical missions, and he wanted to interview them while cosplaying as chef.

Also remember that Hoshi got expelled from STC. And was only brought on because Archer needed a linguist and was friends with him.

But like B'Elanna, she grew into the position.

Seems like Janeway had more sympathy for those that had anything to do with the Maquis, and was protecting them from prosecution from Starfleet before they arrived home. While Harry did not need protecting since he was squeaky clean.

He did need protecting, actually. Between seven years as an ensign and a reprimand in his file, he was Cerritos fodder.
 
I wouldn't be surprised had Janeway invented several ranks below crewman (e.g. 'Voyager Villeins', 'Shuttlebuilding Serfs', and 'Photon (torpedo) Thralls').

Even if only to contrast a bit more with her own new self-assumed title 'Her Imperial Highness'.
 
I wouldn't be surprised had Janeway invented several ranks below crewman (e.g. 'Voyager Villeins', 'Shuttlebuilding Serfs', and 'Photon (torpedo) Thralls').

Even if only to contrast a bit more with her own new self-assumed title 'Her Imperial Highness'.
NGE0YmQwMDgtMmQwYi00M2NkLWEyNjQtNzNlZjU4YTdhY2Nm_brideofchaotic-cover_0.jpg
 
I wouldn't be surprised had Janeway invented several ranks below crewman (e.g. 'Voyager Villeins', 'Shuttlebuilding Serfs', and 'Photon (torpedo) Thralls').

Even if only to contrast a bit more with her own new self-assumed title 'Her Imperial Highness'.
  • Sarge: Got anything lower?
  • Agent Washington: Private, *Junior* Grif?
  • Sarge: I was thinkin' something with an insulting adjective, or... maybe a demeaning adverb...
  • Agent Washington: How about Minor *Junior* Private Grif, negative first class?
  • Sarge: Heh heh, I like the way you think.
 
All hail Her Imperial Starfaring Majesty, Her Most August and Intrepid Presence Captain Catharina Margareta Flavia Octavia Aurelia Janeway!

(of course with Tuvok and Chakotay throwing flower leaves wherever she walks).
 
I would like to point out that per Prodigy "supernova part 1", Harry Kim was a Lt. And part of the crew of the USS Dauntless NCC-80816 as a tactical officer. Though he was not aboard the ship for the events of the episode. (His name shows up on a crew manifest screen in the episode)
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top