• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Why Didn't Harry Get Promoted?

I am inclined to agree. Jonathan Frakes was 34 when TNG began, so he should have been 12 years in when the show started.

Which would have been a solid timeline for LCDR based on Datalore but is still stretch for a CMDR as a second-tour XO or first-tour CO on a minor vessel.

IRL, he'd typically be a LCDR, but CDR is legal IIRC.

They chopped 5 years of his age and career duration for no good reason.

Which is a problem, because he should be a LT-JG or maybe a LT at best (Datalore), and an experienced LT or maybe a junior LCDR at that point.

Pressman certainly is a valid explanation for his meteoric rise up the ranks. I've thought the same myself, particularly after his "I made you and I can break you" bit of dialogue in the Ready Room after Riker suggested blowing up the asteroid.

It might not be something that he and Riker ever overtly agreed to, but him at least pulling strings behind the scenes...
 
Which would have been a solid timeline for LCDR based on Datalore but is still stretch for a CMDR as a second-tour XO or first-tour CO on a minor vessel.

IRL, he'd typically be a LCDR, but CDR is legal IIRC.



Which is a problem, because he should be a LT-JG or maybe a LT at best (Datalore), and an experienced LT or maybe a junior LCDR at that point.



It might not be something that he and Riker ever overtly agreed to, but him at least pulling strings behind the scenes...
Agreed about what you said regarding "Datalore", given Data's timeline for his ranks.

Regarding Pressman...

I am inclined to think Riker didn't know Pressman pulled strings often, but I think he suspected. I think this helps explain two things... first, why he turned down THREE promotions to captain during TNG's time. Second, why he was always so extra willing to take on really dangerous tasks. Not saying Riker wasn't a brave man... he clearly is. But I think him feeling he truly didn't deserve those high, quick bumps may have amplified his willingness to risk his own life so often. (When he very quickly volunteered to be host to Odan in "The Host", for example.) We do know guilt is a motivator for him at times, like in "Legacy" when he went back for Ishara because he didn't like the thought of losing Tasha's sister on another away team he commanded and Picard let him know the personal feelings cannot be afforded during missions (Picard did say 'well done', though).


Going back to Harry Kim...

Guilt is definitely a trait that is consistent for his character. It explains his actions in "NON SEQUITUR", and obviously "TIMELESS". I also think an element of that is why he didn't say no in "ENDGAME" when Janeway said they wouldn't go through with the plan unless it was a unanimous decision... even Janeway expected him to be the lone dissenter, based on how she said 'go ahead' when Harry started to speak. I think he knew he would regret saying no to dealing the Borg such a massive blow instead of getting home quicker.
 
Maybe there was some truth in that.
Does feel plausible. Pressman believing Riker ONLY got his shots because of favors called in without realizing that no, Riker's genuinely grown into the role and has been up to the task.

As for Harry? I'm just glad... going to say if you're going to have a crew padded out by a bunch of alternates, best to make it Harry, because dude may not be outstanding at any of those jobs, but he's well rounded enough to fill in any of them. Given how flexible Starfleet officers have to be? Some interdisciplinary knowledge goes a long way. I'd feel safe with a crew of Kims with some decent bridge officers as senior staff.
 
IRL, he'd typically be a LCDR, but CDR is legal IIRC.
It's normally about fifteen years to make CDR in the wet navy, but if Riker was a really good officer, it's plausible that he could do it in twelve. Suddenly declaring that it was seven, especially when Jonathan Frakes's actual age reflected twelve, was just dumb.
Guilt is definitely a trait that is consistent for his character. It explains his actions in "NON SEQUITUR", and obviously "TIMELESS".
Indeed. I get the sense that it's because his parents sacrificed a lot for him, and he felt unworthy of it. So when good fortune came his way, he felt that he didn’t deserve it.
As for Harry? I'm just glad... going to say if you're going to have a crew padded out by a bunch of alternates, best to make it Harry, because dude may not be outstanding at any of those jobs, but he's well rounded enough to fill in any of them.
Both Janeway and Chakotay spoke glowingly of him, in "Twisted" and "Shattered" respectively. So in addition to versatility, he likely possessed considerable competence at his assigned job.

Indeed, when Seven was analyzing his department efficiency, the only thing she found wrong was that his third-shift underlings had nothing to do. Probably because Harry handled it all himself.
 
Chekov is a great example of a versatile, well rounded officer. Except for communications, we've seen him work every department at one time another. (Navigator, science, security...)

He got an XO spot on the Reliant in about 15 years.
 
A truly plucky guy. I like Harry, even if the character and his actor are stuck with reoccurring psychic damage as a result of all the jokes this kind of misfortune brings. It's funny in seeing how easy it could be to have done the sensible thing, and then they never do it. Which I guess makes it so very realistic!
 
Arguably Worf had a worse love life, and Data was snubbed longer for promotions he deserved more than the people who got them, and O'Brien suffered more. But Harry Kim was the only one to combine the three.
 
Data was snubbed longer for promotions he deserved more than the people who got them

Yeah, but is there any indication that he wanted any promotion that would actually have made any difference?

Riker hinted in BoBW that he believed that Data had no particular "ambition" to be promoted to First Officer (which I'd agree with at the time, though he agreed to take the promotion when offered), and there's little to no advantage to him applying for/accepting promotion to CMDR as Second Officer/Operations Manager as he would have the same position and privileges at that rank as at LCDR.
 
Yeah, but is there any indication that he wanted any promotion that would actually have made any difference?

Riker hinted in BoBW that he believed that Data had no particular "ambition" to be promoted to First Officer (which I'd agree with at the time, though he agreed to take the promotion when offered), and there's little to no advantage to him applying for/accepting promotion to CMDR as Second Officer/Operations Manager as he would have the same position and privileges at that rank as at LCDR.
It would seem Data's approach to promotions is more mathematical. If offered and have the corresponding skills then accepted, besides it's not like he has aging to worry about so what's the rush? He most likely does have ambition but an andorid would see such things in a much much longer term. I mean Tuvok's second starfleet career took like 25 years to reach lieutenant commander.

Perhaps with the emotion chip he decided he would rather spend as much time with his friends as he could, he loved them and would ultimately outlive them so he was living in the now.

His approach to the Sutherland would have also been an equation, he was skilled and experienced and there was a need for his skill. He was even willing to assume that any racial prejudice was his own fault.
 
Yeah, but is there any indication that he wanted any promotion that would actually have made any difference?
Both Picard and Riker were offered promotions (Academy commandant was a RADM berth), but turned them down. If they were so all fired determined to keep Data at LCDR, they could have at least offered him a higher post and have him decline.

And having Deanna smugly tell him he vould cdll her "sir" was just rubbing it in, especially given that Data had more command chops in his android bottom than she had in her whole body. And... oh, yeah, saved the Federation a couple of times.
His approach to the Sutherland would have also been an equation, he was skilled and experienced and there was a need for his skill. He was even willing to assume that any racial prejudice was his own fault.
And he demonstrated that while he had some rough edges, he was a smart and capable commander. See "saved the Federation".

Getting back to Harry, it's hard not to notice that they were so careful to keep his canonical fate unknown. This is certainly because they simply could not justify keeping him at ensign after Voyager's return.

Ruining his career, yes. Although Janeway was out of line in reprimanding him (because he was in a mentally altered state), and he could have gotten it stricken easily, I doubt he would have... Janeway could have ordered him to slice his wrists with a rusty mek'leth and he would have done it, so keeping a career-killing reprimand was nothing. Still, his senior officer post on Voyager and his service duration would have gotten him at least a JG pip when Voyager got home.

Ergo, the only way to stop the "poor dumb eternal ensign Harry" crowd from pitching a hissy is to have him disappear from sight entirely after Voyager's return. Which is exactly what happened, aside from a few parallel universe copies (and we have been informed that none of them was "our" Harry). And with LD, PIC, and PRO over, it looks like that's a permanent thing. :mad:
 
Oh Im fully of the cemented headcanon he was promoted day 1 after the Voyager returned.
And how hard would it have been to have that verified on PIC, LD, or PRO? Easy as pie, simple fan service, and shuts up the "justice for Harry Kim" crowd, of which I am this board's most vocal (and most obnoxious) member... but not the only one. So why were they so careful to ensure that his canonical fate is unknown?
 
And how hard would it have been to have that verified on PIC, LD, or PRO? Easy as pie, simple fan service, and shuts up the "justice for Harry Kim" crowd, of which I am this board's most vocal (and most obnoxious) member... but not the only one. So why were they so careful to ensure that his canonical fate is unknown?
At least he gets justice in STO
 
I believe both determine he made the switch to security division when back home. He deserved a nice ship like a Phalanx class to serve on as a lt jg
More like a full lieutenant. He put in seven years of distinguished service, under difficult and dangerous conditions. If Janeway could be bumped up multiple grades, so could he.
 
More like a full lieutenant. He put in seven years of distinguished service, under difficult and dangerous conditions. If Janeway could be bumped up multiple grades, so could he.
Maybe. The case can certainly be made. He could also spend just a year as a jg to train in the new department and then get full-lieutenant-hood and be a chief of security.

The admiralty is pretty inconsistent. Some folks have to go from captain to comodore to rear admiral etc and then Janeway and Picard get triple and quadruple promotions on the spot.

But then being an admiral seems to break a few brains and they turn evil.
 
Picard getting a 2 or 3 rank bump can be justified because he was not only a well known captain for a long time and captain of the flagship, but he was a captain for about 40 years. That's a vast amount of field and leadership experience.

Janeway's 2 rank bump was probably a combination of Voyager being likely seen as a public celebration and the fact she was, according to her, on a first name basis with a bunch of admirals. (Probably partly because her father was an admiral.)


As for Kim, I'm certain he got a promotion when they got home. We saw Paris as a full Lt. in LOWER DECKS. Tuvok was a captain by PICARD season 3. Only other person we don't know is Torres, if she stayed in Starfleet or decided to leave.
 
As for Kim, I'm certain he got a promotion when they got home. We saw Paris as a full Lt. in LOWER DECKS. Tuvok was a captain by PICARD season 3. Only other person we don't know is Torres, if she stayed in Starfleet or decided to leave.
She was the project lead in the design of the Dauntless, which suggests continued affiliation with Starfleet. Maybe she wanted to stay on Earth for awhile to raise Miral.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top