What are your Doctor Who hot takes?

[Gingerbread Demon]

It's okay to flat-out murder a defenseless enemy in an explosion for no reason after you've already defeated him, which is what happens in the episode Kerblam! It's one of those episodes that is both good, yet has some horrible things in it happen that you can't really brush off. I mean Doctor Who has done anti corpo episodes throughout it's 60+ year run but this one felt really a little ham fisted in parts. I mean a real classic in this genre was the 4th Doctor and The Sun Makers, that one was a good one.

Mass murder is very wrong, but hey if you let someone else do it and they later kill themselves you are totally off the hook for that because reasons. /s (The Timeless Children)

What the Doctor did that that TARDIS in Revolution Of The Daleks is unforgivable in that she makes a sentient creature kill itself. After all we know that TARDISes are alive sentient beings. Very bad taste in my mouth from that one.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Blueberry of course



Oh, wait. you said hot takes.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Blueberry of course

View attachment 43867

Oh, wait. you said hot takes.

That looks most excellent ........ Ooh now I'm hungry

 

[David cgc]

I mean Doctor Who has done anti corpo episodes throughout it's 60+ year run but this one felt really a little ham fisted in parts.

"Kerblam!" wasn't even that anti-corporate. It's weird to see the Doctor, of all people, say "The system is fine, its the squeaky wheels who are ruining it for the rest of us!"

The Doctor hates systems! That's probably half the reason they threw out the TARDIS manual!

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

"Kerblam!" wasn't even that anti-corporate. It's weird to see the Doctor, of all people, say "The system is fine, its the squeaky wheels who are ruining it for the rest of us!"

The Doctor hates systems! That's probably half the reason they threw out the TARDIS manual!

To me the Doctor just seemed wildly inconsistent in this one.

 

[FredH]

I think this counts as a hot take:

While I think Jodie Whittaker and Ncuti Gatwa are excellent Doctors — just like pretty much everyone who preceded them — I think I can finally admit that yeah, for the last few years the series has had the same sort of “circling the drain” feeling that the last few years of the classic series did. That’s not so much because of any of the specific story decisions made (I’m fine with the Timeless Child, it opens up tons more story possibilities), just more a much-heightened feeling of intentional campiness that, to my mind, signals a loss of confidence in the show as a show, whatever RTD says publicly (and whatever JNT said back in the day).

Now admittedly, my “idea” of the show has always been idiosyncratic — I basically want a wandering figure exploring weird but essentially science-fiction worlds without any larger mythologizing or whole-universe-saving — but I recognize that periodically reinventing itself is just something that DW does. But what I’m inexpertly calling the “camp” feeling here — I can’t put my finger on it, but it’s a vibe of “this is all nonsense anyway” that I think the series is better avoiding, especially when it actually is nonsense — feels like the whiff of decay.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I think this counts as a hot take:

While I think Jodie Whittaker and Ncuti Gatwa are excellent Doctors — just like pretty much everyone who preceded them — I think I can finally admit that yeah, for the last few years the series has had the same sort of “circling the drain” feeling that the last few years of the classic series did. That’s not so much because of any of the specific story decisions made (I’m fine with the Timeless Child, it opens up tons more story possibilities), just more a much-heightened feeling of intentional campiness that, to my mind, signals a loss of confidence in the show as a show, whatever RTD says publicly (and whatever JNT said back in the day).

Now admittedly, my “idea” of the show has always been idiosyncratic — I basically want a wandering figure exploring weird but essentially science-fiction worlds without any larger mythologizing or whole-universe-saving — but I recognize that periodically reinventing itself is just something that DW does. But what I’m inexpertly calling the “camp” feeling here — I can’t put my finger on it, but it’s a vibe of “this is all nonsense anyway” that I think the series is better avoiding, especially when it actually is nonsense — feels like the whiff of decay.

As much as I liked the new series with Ncuti. I feel kind of the same way, the constant 4th wall breaking, even right at the very end with Mrs Flood and it's still left unexplained who or what she is and why the constant talking to the audience on purpose.

I mean in the Hartnell days that was done on purpose when he wished us all a Merry Christmas but not as part of the actual ongoing story, so it's really jarring to see characters in the story do that all the time.

 

[FredH]

As much as I liked the new series with Ncuti. I feel kind of the same way, the constant 4th wall breaking, even right at the very end with Mrs Flood and it's still left unexplained who or what she is and why the constant talking to the audience on purpose.

I mean in the Hartnell days that was done on purpose when he wished us all a Merry Christmas but not as part of the actual ongoing story, so it's really jarring to see characters in the story do that all the time.

I don’t have a problem with the 4th-wall-breaking per se — I smiled as much as anyone at “57 academics just punched the air” — but I do with the sort of, how to put it, “jingly-jangly-pretty-candy-colors” sensibility I’ve been feeling from the show. I’m not sure if that makes sense.

 

[Qonundrum]

Until the 21st century, the TARDIS was always referred to as a machine. Yes, it had telepathic circuits and an analogue of what could be called "AI", but it wasn't so anthropomorphized. Many Doctors still referred to it as a machine despite the occasional "her", like what many owners say about their automobiles, boats, etc. But 21st century went out of its way, starting with how it's now "grown" (think "like food in yon garden") which is risible to begin with, then later having a story where the ship is now an actual biological woman in form, that Chibnall reverting it to "it's a machine, programmed" definitely took some off-kilter. But we felt it first. Ideally, not going overboard with big canonical changes prevents these little tit-for-tats to begin with... which then runs the risk of things becoming bland, but the "big reveal" of the ship being sentient and with an actual personality just had me laughing at the time over how corny it was. The Axons did it first, and better.

4th wall - sometimes it's not even a conscious, deliberate attempt to be cutesy, but a character just looking at a direction, which happens to be the imaginary/fourth wall, and is otherwise not breaking character or acknowledging the break. As 4th wall gags are all about reveling in acknowledging the wall break, a lot of scenes can easily be misinterpreted into something they're not.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Until the 21st century, the TARDIS was always referred to as a machine. Yes, it had telepathic circuits and an analogue of what could be called "AI", but it wasn't so anthropomorphized. Many Doctors still referred to it as a machine despite the occasional "her", like what many owners say about their automobiles, boats, etc. But 21st century went out of its way, starting with how it's now "grown" (think "like food in yon garden") which is risible to begin with, then later having a story where the ship is now an actual biological woman in form, that Chibnall reverting it to "it's a machine, programmed" definitely took some off-kilter. But we felt it first. Ideally, not going overboard with big canonical changes prevents these little tit-for-tats to begin with... which then runs the risk of things becoming bland, but the "big reveal" of the ship being sentient and with an actual personality just had me laughing at the time over how corny it was. The Axons did it first, and better.

4th wall - sometimes it's not even a conscious, deliberate attempt to be cutesy, but a character just looking at a direction, which happens to be the imaginary/fourth wall, and is otherwise not breaking character or acknowledging the break. As 4th wall gags are all about reveling in acknowledging the wall break, a lot of scenes can easily be misinterpreted into something they're not.

Ok not familiar with the Axons. How did they do sentient ships better?

 

[Redfern]

Ok not familiar with the Axons. How did they do sentient ships better?

Well, there was little to no ambiguity, they're flat out organic looking, inside and out, cellular patterns and fleshy tendrils. I shouldn't say much more lest I spoil the story for you. (I assume you have not yet seen it since you're asking the question.)

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Well, there was little to no ambiguity, they're flat out organic looking, inside and out, cellular patterns and fleshy tendrils. I shouldn't say much more lest I spoil the story for you. (I assume you have not yet seen it since you're asking the question.)

No I have not seen any Dr Who with Axons or their ships.. Old or new episode?

 

[Chaos Descending]

No I have not seen any Dr Who with Axons or their ships.. Old or new episode?

Old. Early 1970s.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

it’s a vibe of “this is all nonsense anyway” that I think the series is better avoiding, especially when it actually is nonsense

100% this. If the series itself doesn't believe it's all real then what chance do I have of buying into it?

 

[Mr Awe]

I think this counts as a hot take:

While I think Jodie Whittaker and Ncuti Gatwa are excellent Doctors — just like pretty much everyone who preceded them — I think I can finally admit that yeah, for the last few years the series has had the same sort of “circling the drain” feeling that the last few years of the classic series did.

Same. I haven't wanted to admit it, but it's true. Both great actors but the series isn't must see TV for me anymore. Part of it is lowered quality. Part of it is that there is a bunch of other great SF series. DW hasn't stayed competitive with its competition.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I think this counts as a hot take:

While I think Jodie Whittaker and Ncuti Gatwa are excellent Doctors — just like pretty much everyone who preceded them — I think I can finally admit that yeah, for the last few years the series has had the same sort of “circling the drain” feeling that the last few years of the classic series did. That’s not so much because of any of the specific story decisions made (I’m fine with the Timeless Child, it opens up tons more story possibilities), just more a much-heightened feeling of intentional campiness that, to my mind, signals a loss of confidence in the show as a show, whatever RTD says publicly (and whatever JNT said back in the day).

Now admittedly, my “idea” of the show has always been idiosyncratic — I basically want a wandering figure exploring weird but essentially science-fiction worlds without any larger mythologizing or whole-universe-saving — but I recognize that periodically reinventing itself is just something that DW does. But what I’m inexpertly calling the “camp” feeling here — I can’t put my finger on it, but it’s a vibe of “this is all nonsense anyway” that I think the series is better avoiding, especially when it actually is nonsense — feels like the whiff of decay.

That's really well said

 

[FredH]

That's really well said

Why, thank you!

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Why, thank you!

I really enjoyed both the Timeless Child and the Flux series...... But the majority didn't..

 

[FredH]

I really enjoyed both the Timeless Child and the Flux series...... But the majority didn't..

True. I honestly thought Flux was a muddled mess that made no sense, but the Timeless Child is (among other things) an unrecognized godsend to potential DW spinoff writers, fanfic writers and gamers. In Trek, you basically come up with new crews for new series; for DW now, you can always just come up with a new Doctor (and maybe just not tell the audience which number it is, or whether it’s before or after Drs 1-15, because it doesn’t matter)! Heck, if I were in charge of whatever publisher does DW novels, I’d let authors just make up their own Doctor for any damn book they like.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

True. I honestly thought Flux was a muddled mess that made no sense, but the Timeless Child is (among other things) an unrecognized godsend to potential DW spinoff writers, fanfic writers and gamers. In Trek, you basically come up with new crews for new series; for DW now, you can always just come up with a new Doctor (and maybe just not tell the audience which number it is, or whether it’s before or after Drs 1-15, because it doesn’t matter)! Heck, if I were in charge of whatever publisher does DW novels, I’d let authors just make up their own Doctor for any damn book they like.

That's a great idea. I like it... I'm glad people have different opinions about the show.