Spoilers TOS: Miasma by Greg Cox Review Thread

[Kertrats47]

Definitely enjoyed this one! I love the feeling of watching a television episode that these e-novellas evoke. Especially when they're written as well as this one! Those leech-things... *shudder*

Here's my review!

 

[Smitty]

Just finished it and I found it very good! I love the novella format as it gives you a break from the large novels or multi-book series (Star Trek or otherwise) that can take so much time for me to get through. I found the characterizations just right and loved the struggle and story. Thanks Mr. Cox!

 

[Greg Cox]

Just finished it and I found it very good! I love the novella format as it gives you a break from the large novels or multi-book series (Star Trek or otherwise) that can take so much time for me to get through. I found the characterizations just right and loved the struggle and story. Thanks Mr. Cox!

Thanks! Another nice thing about the novella format, in my opinion, is that it gives you a chance to explore ideas that maybe aren't enough to sustain a full novel without excess padding. As noted before, I first came up with the idea for MIASMA more than a decade ago, but I never thought that I could get 300-plus pages out of it.

But a 30,000 word novella? Great! I could finally write this story.

 

[vegaslover62]

No one's going to bother trying to respond since it's obvious you won't care about it anyway regardless of the content with a comment like that, so mission accomplished I guess?

Oh, I care about it. But nobody will respond because nobody in their right mind wants to rationalize away this Star-Trek-V-level hand-waving.

As for why they didn't spray Spock's blood on themselves . . .

I thought of that as well.

 

[GaryH]

Hi Greg. Great to see Saavik used again.

Any personal views on the Spock marriage or interest in using her in TNG timeline?

Thanks

 

[Greg Cox]

Hi Greg. Great to see Saavik used again.

Any personal views on the Spock marriage or interest in using her in TNG timeline?

Thanks

To be honest, I'm not sure I ever read VULCAN'S HEART, although I remember looking over Susan's and Josepha's original outline many, many years ago. It seemed like a cool idea at the time.

No immediate plans to do anything in the TNG era, but I am flirting with the idea of doing so more with movie-era Saavik. Nothing definite to report at the moment, however.

 

[Bibliomike]

am flirting with the idea of doing so more with movie-era Saavik. Nothing definite to report at the moment, however.

Ooh! If we get a vote (and I know we don't), I vote yea!

 

[GaryH]

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

I like Saavik's back story in the books, and I like the idea of movie continuity only Saavik ending up with Spock decades after the movies, but I am uncomfortable with combining the two -I.e. Saavik marrying someone who rescued her as a child and helped raise her since she was a girl.

Love the character though. I hope you write her again.

 

[Christopher]

I like Saavik's back story in the books, and I like the idea of movie continuity only Saavik ending up with Spock decades after the movies, but I am uncomfortable with combining the two -I.e. Saavik marrying someone who rescued her as a child and helped raise her since she was a girl.

I don't really see why. Such things unnerve us because of our awareness of sexual predators, but presumably such things are vanishingly rare among Vulcans -- and hopefully among 23rd/24th-century humans as well. And Saavik is not biologically related to Spock, so there's no logical reason for an incest taboo to apply. And by the time they marry, decades have passed since Saavik's childhood, and most of the time she and Spock have known each other, it's been as adults.

The version favored in the modern continuity (e.g. Unspoken Truth) is that Saavik was raised as Sarek and Amanda's adoptive daughter, making Spock her adoptive brother rather than her father figure. That in itself can seem weird and incestuous, but there are precedents in fiction. The Six Million Dollar Man and The Bionic Woman established that Jaime Sommers, the love of Steve Austin's life, had been adopted by his biological parents after the death of her own (the adoption was apparently after Steve had left for college, but when they were engaged to be married years later, they were legally adoptive siblings). And similarly, on the current TV version of The Flash, Barry Allen was in love with, and is possibly destined to marry, his adoptive sister Iris West. And in neither case is this treated as incestuous, because they aren't actually blood relatives. And neither are Spock and Saavik.

 

[Idran]

On the other hand, Christopher, I do have a friend that is somewhat put off by Iris and Barry in Flash for the same reason. And I can certainly understand someone bothered by the concept not for in-universe reasons, but rather because it was included in a piece of media to begin with. More of a "why did the writers do this" than "why did the character do this".

 

[Christopher]

On the other hand, Christopher, I do have a friend that is somewhat put off by Iris and Barry in Flash for the same reason. And I can certainly understand someone bothered by the concept not for in-universe reasons, but rather because it was included in a piece of media to begin with. More of a "why did the writers do this" than "why did the character do this".

But the reason incest taboos exist in society is because of the genetic problems that can result from inbreeding. There's no reason to apply them to relationships between consenting adults who share an adoptive bond. Adoption and marriage are both ways of establishing a legally defined familial relationship with someone you aren't biologically related to, so marrying an adoptive sibling is kind of a lateral move in that sense.

I understand being uneasy with things that remind us of sexually predatory relationships. But it seems rather unfair to condemn a relationship that isn't actually predatory in any way, like Barry/Iris or Spock/Saavik, just because it reminds us of those people who are predatory. We should focus our disapproval on the individuals who deserve it, rather than casting such a wide net that the false positives distract us from the real dangers.

 

[GaryH]

I'm actually reading the Unspoken Truth at the moment funnily enough.

I wouldn't have a problem with the age difference if they had just met as editors, but I do think feel uncomfortable with the editors have Saavik marry a man who was her childhood saviour. It feels a bit icky. I have no doubt the creative and editorial team did not intend it that way but it feels unthought through when the tv series revealed Spock had a wife.

 

[Idran]

That's the biological origin, that's the likely origin for things like the Westermarck effect. That's distinct from the reason they exist in society today, you're confusing your system levels. It might be the first principles reason if you're taking a wide view, but it's as accurate as answering "why did you miss work today" with "the Earth condensed out of a protoplanetary disk"; technically right but providing no useful information. The sociological reason has as much to do with the biological origin as the meaning of a word has to do with the meaning of its PIE root, and similarly, saying that biologically it's fine so you shouldn't be bothered is like saying the PIE root of a word meant X so you should mean X when you use this word.

Spock/Saavik and Barry/Iris doesn't really bother me personally, but I can entirely see, understand, and accept why it would bother other people, and it doesn't seem like an unreasonable position to me at all, simply a position I don't have.

 

[GaryH]

And none of this has anything to do with Greg's story.

Sorry Greg.

 

[Christopher]

That's the biological origin, that's the likely origin for things like the Westermarck effect. That's distinct from the reason they exist in society today, you're confusing your system levels.

No, I'm trying to approach it from a Vulcan perspective, because we're talking about a relationship between two Vulcans and it's ethnocentric to judge other cultures by the standards of your own. Vulcans would make these decisions on the basis of dispassionate logic and functionality rather than applying the emotional standards that we use. There is no logical reason why any 21st-century human concern about predatory or power-imbalanced sexual relationships, or any emotional distaste for the implication of incest, should have any bearing on the decision of Spock and Saavik to enter into a marital contract. They're adults with the freedom to choose for themselves, there's nothing rationally wrong with their choice to marry, and nobody is being victimized or hurt by it in any way. And so it's nobody's right to judge their choice as immoral just because it's different from what convention recommends.

 

[Greg Cox]

And none of this has anything to do with Greg's story.

Sorry Greg.

No problem. It's an interesting discussion.

 

[Idran]

No, I'm trying to approach it from a Vulcan perspective, because we're talking about a relationship between two Vulcans and it's ethnocentric to judge other cultures by the standards of your own.

It's ethnocentric to impose your own standards on another culture, or to judge in the sense of passing judgment on them. But it's not ethnocentric to hold a personal, internal opinion on the actions of those in another culture, or to react accordingly in a personal context so long as you are not forcing that opinion upon them. (Not to mention the question of if it's even possible to be ethnocentric regarding a fictional culture through any action whatsoever.)

 

[Christopher]

It's ethnocentric to impose your own standards on another culture, or to judge in the sense of passing judgment on them. But it's not ethnocentric to hold a personal, internal opinion on the actions of those in another culture, or to react accordingly in a personal context so long as you are not forcing that opinion upon them.

Opinions should not be strictly internal, though. That's the problem with society these days, this pervasive belief that opinion should come strictly from within and should preclude consideration of alternative opinions or even contradictory facts. Too many people use their "right to an opinion" as an excuse to close their minds to additional information or ideas, or to refuse considering the possibility that they could ever be wrong about anything. Good opinions are informed opinions, based on giving fair consideration to all the sides of a question before choosing one. I think the objections to the Spock/Saavik marriage are based in unexamined kneejerk reactions and preconceptions rather than a fair analysis of the particulars of their relationship and their culture.

 

[Idran]

Oh no, when I say an internal opinion, I mean one kept internally, not one generated based on internal processes alone. As in, distinguished from an opinion one shares with the party in question. I agree with you that opinions ought to be informed, but I still think that a reaction such as this is wholly reasonable so long as it isn't used as an excuse for harsh or severe behavior on another person. And since we're talking about a reaction to fiction here, I think it's entirely reasonable regardless of other particulars.

 

[Christopher]

I dunno... I still think that if someone's opinion is that two other consenting adults' marriage is wrong or immoral just because it doesn't conform to conventional social norms, then that person is not being wholly reasonable, that person is being a self-righteous jerk.