Spoilers TOS: Lost to Eternity by Greg Cox Review Thread

[Markonian]

This was a fun read. I enjoyed the adventure and the tying-together of the three eras. It can be hard to picture how a version of the real world could evolve into the "campy" Trek world. This novel helped bridge the gap.

I voted outstanding. Melinda quickly became a favorite character. Bringing her back in a future novel could be great to have a "present day" character voice opinions on the "future".

One observation on continuity: In the PIC Starship Logs on Instagram, it says the USS Titan (NCC-1777) is launched under the command of Captain Saavik in 2290 (Link:

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). Technically, tie-in material is not beholden to each other. But what did make me wonder is that Saavik remained a lowly lieutenant 6 years after the events of the TOS movie trilogy. While officers can easily remain in rank for years, Saavik is a capable and outstanding officer, mentored by Spock and serving on the Enterprise - would she not be a lieutenant commander by the 2290s?

Because of this, my mind automatically tries to picture all of the starships in the novel. However, I don’t think we’ve ever actually seen a late 23rd Century (2292) “Romulan Warbird” before. So, whenever it is mentioned (or, even more so, when the story shifts to being aboard the Warbird, as it is in this chapter I’m starting to read), I’m getting a bit distracted by not being able to picture in my mind the starship design.

I was wondering about the 2290s-era Romulan warbird as well.
There were two options for me: an imagined refit of the TOS-era Thrai class. This is basically the TOS-era Romulan bird of prey but in the configuration of a TNG-era D'deridex-class warbird.
Or the Snipe class, which is TOS movie era and stems from an old video game. The Snipe class was recently canonized on Lower Decks.

 

[Christopher]

Or the Snipe class, which is TOS movie era and stems from an old video game. The Snipe class was recently canonized on Lower Decks.

That would seem to give it the edge over the non-canonical options. Although I kinda liked the FASA ones used in DC's Volume 1.

 

[Markonian]

That would seem to give it the edge over the non-canonical options. Although I kinda liked the FASA ones used in DC's Volume 1.

That's the D7/K't'inga with a warbird-like "tertiary hull", right? I know the image but my search skills are failing me.

However, I found there's already been a 2280s-era Romulan ship Harrier in Trek before.
According to Memory Beta, the Romulan Z1-class bird-of-prey ChR Harrier appeared in the TOS - Star Trek (DC volume 1) comic: "Idol Threats". I cannot verify, as I've not read that before. I can't make much sense of the design from the comic picture but there's also a FASA ortho.

 

[Christopher]

That's the D7/K't'inga with a warbird-like "tertiary hull", right? I know the image but my search skills are failing me.

No, that's what DC used in Volume 2. The FASA-style Nova-class Romulan battleships first appeared in Volume 1's "The Doomsday Bug" storyline, issues 34-36 (leading into their ST IV adaptation), dated January-March 1987 and released in late 1986, before TNG and the D'Deridex class even existed. They're prominently featured on the cover of issue 35 (where they appear to be creating a Tholian web, though nothing like that happens in the actual story).

However, I found there's already been a 2280s-era Romulan ship Harrier in Trek before.
According to Memory Beta, the Romulan Z1-class bird-of-prey ChR Harrier appeared in the TOS - Star Trek (DC volume 1) comic: "Idol Threats". I cannot verify, as I've not read that before. I can't make much sense of the design from the comic picture but there's also a FASA ortho.

That's the one, though "Idol Threats" was about a year later than "The Doomsday Bug."

 

[Markonian]

During the first dinner aboard the Enterprise-A, the crew is mentioned to wear dress uniforms. Has the dress uniform of the monster maroons every been depicted?

 

[David cgc]

During the first dinner aboard the Enterprise-A, the crew is mentioned to wear dress uniforms. Has the dress uniform of the monster maroons every been depicted?

The only time I can remember is the Ashes of Eden graphic novel, where the turtleneck was replaced with a black v-collar similar to the one Spock wore in TMP (it looks like black silk, or maybe leather, something shiny), with gold trim around the shoulder-strap, and the black lining of the front-flap having gold pips along it for captains, medals and awards under the delta (like the Admirals in TUC), and the top Admiral had thick gold braid around his collar and jacket trim, and cords hanging from the "button" on the back side of the shoulder-strap.

And then, having written that all out, I decided to make a collage from the comic anyway.

 

[Christopher]

I've always felt the monster maroons should be the dress uniforms, since they're way too complicated to be everyday fatigues. The regular uniform should just be the turtleneck underneath with the insignias attached. (So I think "Yesterday's Enterprise" got it backward when they ditched the turtleneck and kept the jacket, which just looked weird.)

 

[Markonian]

The only time I can remember is the Ashes of Eden graphic novel, where the turtleneck was replaced with a black v-collar similar to the one Spock wore in TMP (it looks like black silk, or maybe leather, something shiny), with gold trim around the shoulder-strap, and the black lining of the front-flap having gold pips along it for captains, medals and awards under the delta (like the Admirals in TUC), and the top Admiral had thick gold braid around his collar and jacket trim, and cords hanging from the "button" on the back side of the shoulder-strap.

And then, having written that all out, I decided to make a collage from the comic anyway.

View attachment 43046

Wow, thanks for putting that together!
I like the hefty monster maroons. I imagine them to be cozy. But that dress uniform collar looks rather severe.

 

[Christopher]

I like the hefty monster maroons. I imagine them to be cozy.

I doubt it gets very drafty aboard a starship...

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Unless you set your quarters to be a bit chilly because you like the experience of being cold and wearing a sweater to be warm vs always being at the perfect temperature. If you miss chilly fall and winter days indoors.

 

[JD]

I've always felt the monster maroons should be the dress uniforms, since they're way too complicated to be everyday fatigues. The regular uniform should just be the turtleneck underneath with the insignias attached. (So I think "Yesterday's Enterprise" got it backward when they ditched the turtleneck and kept the jacket, which just looked weird.)

Yeah, they're a cool design, but they do seem like they'd be rather impractical for regular daily use.

 

[youngtrek]

Ok, now having finished reading “Lost to Eternity” (and also having listened to both the “Literary Treks” and “Positively Trek” podcast episodes interviewing @Greg Cox ), first I have to echo most of the comments here in that this is an awesome book. I gave it four out of five stars on GoodReads, and an “Outstanding” here.

I found it especially interesting hearing Greg speak about how he first outlined this book back in 2020 at the start of Covid, and that he’d put the Melinda timeframe as 2024 because it was a bit in the future, what he hoped would be far enough that people wouldn’t all be required to wear masks, socially distance themselves, etc. That he didn’t actually know at the time that the book would actually come out in 2024 (and therefore be “today” as we read it now).

I also found it interesting that he wrote all of the 2024 chapters first, then all of the TOS (2268), and then all of the TOS film era (2292). And that he only then, after all three sections were finished, separated them out into the back-and-forth chapters we got in the finished book (and had to do various edits to assure that certain story points didn’t get revealed prematurely).

(Spoilers!) I do have to admit a tiny bit of disappointment that you-know-who only actually appears at the very end. I was one of those who, from the promo copy, had started hoping that she—ahem, I mean they—would actually be one of the main characters in the 2292 parts. But, again, that’s a tiny thing.

I do think that you-know-who would have been a bit more excited to meet another person from (roughly) her own time period after having been living in the 23rd Century for a few years. I didn’t really get that feeling from her as much as I did the (understandable) other way around, Melinda’s excitement at meeting her.

Okay. Now I want two things. I want an actual “Gillian Taylor immediately post Star Trek IV through at least Kirk’s death in Generations” novel.

And, even more so, now that Greg has established (“novels established”, that is) that Saavik is back aboard the Enterprise-A in between Star Trek V and Star Trek VI, I really want him to write a novel showing us why she’s no longer on the ship at the start of Star Trek VI. Why she ended up leaving the A (whether promotion to a different ship after one last adventure on the A, her leaving Starfleet, or whatever). And also Valeris’s becoming a protege of Spock’s.

I know that some of this might have already been covered in other novels, though. Maybe not about Saavik during this time period, but I know I’ve seen at least one novel with Valeris on the cover that I haven’t read yet.


— David Young

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

I hope none of the above gets construed as a "story idea," because it's stuff I'd like to see, too.

 

[Greg Cox]

And, even more so, now that Greg has established (“novels established”, that is) that Saavik is back aboard the Enterprise-A in between Star Trek V and Star Trek VI, I really want him to write a novel showing us why she’s no longer on the ship at the start of Star Trek VI. Why she ended up leaving the A (whether promotion to a different ship after one last adventure on the A, her leaving Starfleet, or whatever). And also Valeris’s becoming a protege of Spock’s.




— David Young

As I recall, the transition from Saavik to Valeris was covered in a DC Comic many years ago.

Short version: Saavik had Valeris's number, tried to warn Spock about her, but he didn't want to hear it.

Perhaps some other poster remembers what Issue that was?

 

[Christopher]

As I recall, the transition from Saavik to Valeris was covered in a DC Comic many years ago.

Short version: Saavik had Valeris's number, tried to warn Spock about her, but he didn't want to hear it.

Perhaps some other poster remembers what Issue that was?

The only pre-TUC Valeris story DC did was "A Question of Loyalty," the second story in DC Vol. 2 Special #2, by Steven H. Wilson and Rachel Ketchum, set closer to TUC than the regular DC series at the time. I wouldn't say it showed a "transition" between them, since Valeris was only aboard briefly for a cadet training cruise supervised by Saavik, and showed Vulcan-supremacist attitudes that Saavik tried and failed to talk her out of.


I don't think it's really necessary to explain why Saavik wasn't aboard in TUC, since the idea in TUC was that the crew had been apart for a while and were only brought back together by Spock for the peace mission. The film was intended to open with a sequence of Kirk getting the band back together, but ultimately we just got a few lines in the crew briefing scene, plus of course the fact that Sulu had gotten his own captaincy and Spock had been off doing diplomatic work. So presumably Saavik had simply taken another assignment in the meantime.

 

[youngtrek]

I don't think it's really necessary to explain why Saavik wasn't aboard in TUC, since the idea in TUC was that the crew had been apart for a while and were only brought back together by Spock for the peace mission. The film was intended to open with a sequence of Kirk getting the band back together, but ultimately we just got a few lines in the crew briefing scene, plus of course the fact that Sulu had gotten his own captaincy and Spock had been off doing diplomatic work. So presumably Saavik had simply taken another assignment in the meantime.

Yes, it’s probably not “necessary”. But I’d still like to read it. Especially if Greg could write it!

As for the existence of that DC comics story, it’s been so long since then that I don’t think it should prevent a fresh look at Saavik’s leaving and Valeris’ basically taking her place.

As I mentioned, I hadn’t even remembered it as having been established in the books or the comics that Saavik had returned to service aboard the Enterprise-A after staying back on Vulcan at the start of Star Trek IV. Is this in any of the other novels? Or was it just something I must have forgotten from the second DC TOS comics series?

As for the crew having been apart for awhile (in the film as released), I always got the impression that it wasn’t very long since their last mission because of Uhura’s line during the climactic space battle with the cloaked Bird of Prey about the special sensor equipment they still had on board from charter nebulas or some such. The equipment Spock and McCoy use to modify the photon torpedo.

— David Young

 

[Christopher]

As I mentioned, I hadn’t even remembered it as having been established in the books or the comics that Saavik had returned to service aboard the Enterprise-A after staying back on Vulcan at the start of Star Trek IV. Is this in any of the other novels? Or was it just something I must have forgotten from the second DC TOS comics series?

Howard Weinstein brought Saavik on board as helm officer after Sulu became Excelsior captain in the comics. Years later, when Howie wrote the fifth installment of the Mere Anarchy e-book miniseries, he set it in the same time frame as his comics and included Saavik in the crew. I can't think of any other prose depictions of Saavik being part of the E-A crew in that time frame prior to this one.

 

[Greg Cox]

Howard Weinstein brought Saavik on board as helm officer after Sulu became Excelsior captain in the comics. Years later, when Howie wrote the fifth installment of the Mere Anarchy e-book miniseries, he set it in the same time frame as his comics and included Saavik in the crew. I can't think of any other prose depictions of Saavik being part of the E-A crew in that time frame prior to this one.

I previously put Saavik on the Enterprise-A in my "Miasma" ebook.

 

[Kilana2]

Finally finished it and voted outstanding. Melinda was a refreshing character. Wilder/Kesh/Siroth was not the typical villain, showing different faces - literally and figuratively. I keep on wondering what became of Dr. Hamparian....and how exactly McCoy got his hands on the miracle pill.

And I'm currently listening to this tune....

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[hbquikcomjamesl]

and how exactly McCoy got his hands on the miracle pill.

My understanding was always that it was late-23rd-century medical technology, and I don't recall anything in the present opus to contradict that assumption. Was there something I missed, Mr. Cox?