TNG Era Ships

[JJohnson]

I'm working on a sim in the TNG era (and soon one in the TOS movie era), and I'm including some non-canon ships for the sake of fleshing it out, like the old Star Trek Battles added stuff and FASA did. I'm going for the era of roughly 2345-2390 for ship designs.

I know I'll be including the Galaxy, Probert Ambassador, Excelsior Refit, New Orleans, and the First Contact ships. What other ships are there y'all have seen that would fit this era that look well designed enough to be legit Starfleet ships?

And to the second era, the TOS movie era, from 2271-2305, which ships aside from the Refit Constitution, Excelsior, Excelsior Refit, Miranda, and Oberth are there, even non-canon / non-screen / fan-made out there that would be good enough to include in this era?

Thanks!!

 

[1001001]

Ship stuff goes in Trek Tech. Moving now.

 

[Tim Walker]

TNG era:

1. Springfield

2. Cheyenne

3. Challenger

4. Freedom

 

[Dukhat]

TNG era:

1. Springfield

2. Cheyenne

3. Challenger

4. Freedom

Also, the Niagara and Olympic classes.

And, based on their registry numbers, the following conjectural classes could also be from the TNG era:

1. Andromeda
2. Bradbury
3. Chimera
4. Korolev
5. Rigel
6. Sequoia
7. Yorkshire
8. Zodiac

As for the TOS movie era, there is the Constellation, Soyuz, and Sydney classes, and now the Shangri-La class. The Planet of the Titans and Excelsior study models seen on screen are also from this era. Possible conjectural classes for this era are:

1.Apollo
2. Deneva
3. Hokule'a
4. Wambundu

 

[Lakenheath 72]

Bradbury is not a conjectural class name. It is first mentioned in the episode "Brothers" on an Okudagram. As for the Rigel, the class name is seen in the same episode, as the class to which the USS Zhukov is associated with, before a recon made the ship an Ambassador-class vessel.

Registry numbers are an unreliable tool for gauging the era to which a class belongs. We have the Excelsior-class USS Melbourne with its NCC-62043 registry number as an example of why this is so. There needs to be other evidence to indicate when a class might have come into service. Like, for instance, the Korolev is probably a 24th century class, as the USS Korolev of the 23rd century was a Connie. This is based on the visual evidence seen in ST VI.

For 2345 to 2390, there are these classes that we can say with certainty entered service in this time period: the California, the Parliament, the Nova, the Obena, the Curiosity, the Prometheus, the Wallenberg, the Intrepid, the Luna, the Dauntless, the Osler, the Protostar, and some of the kitbash ships seen in DS9.

For 2271 to 2305, I know of another class that entered service: the Lancelot-class.

 

[Dukhat]

Bradbury is not a conjectural class name. It is first mentioned in the episode "Brothers" on an Okudagram. As for the Rigel, the class name is seen in the same episode, as the class to which the USS Zhukov is associated with, before a recon made the ship an Ambassador-class vessel.

Thanks for those. Also, the Apollo and Korolev class names appear in Okudagrams as well.

Registry numbers are an unreliable tool for gauging the era to which a class belongs.

It depends on the circumstances. See below.

We have the Excelsior-class USS Melbourne with its NCC-62043 registry number as an example of why this is so.

That particular instance was a snafu. That registry belonged to a Nebula class ship before they changed it to an Excelsior, and didn't bother to change the registry to be more logical. Same with the Crazy Horse. It was listed as a Cheyenne class with a 5XXXX registry before they showed it on screen using stock footage of the Excelsior class. All other TNG-era Excelsiors have more logical 3XXXX to 4XXXX registries.

There needs to be other evidence to indicate when a class might have come into service. Like, for instance, the Korolev is probably a 24th century class, as the USS Korolev of the 23rd century was a Connie. This is based on the visual evidence seen in ST VI.

Actually, there's no evidence the TUC Korolev was a Connie. We only know the registry number, not the class. But it's doubtful that it's the class ship of the TNG Korolev class.

And on the subject of registry number evidence: While it's true that registry numbers can be an unreliable tool for gauging the era to which a class belongs, there are some factors that can be possible evidence of build times:

1. The Andromeda-class USS Drake was probably commissioned just after the Wambundu-class Drake was destroyed in 2364. Given that the registry perfectly corresponds with this date, this is evidence that the Andromeda class is a new TNG-era design.

2. On the subject of the Wambundu class, both known ships have registries of 203XX. The fact that the old Drake could only max out at warp 3 would mean that it was built before the warp scale was recalibrated for TNG, since that statement would be utter nonsense otherwise (i.e. Warp 3 in the new TNG scale might correspond to Warp 6 in the old TOS/TMP scale), and the class is a much older design.

3. The four known Apollo class ships all have 1XXXX registries. Since we never saw any Apollos on screen, it's possible that they simply didn't build all that many, and the ones we know about have registries that most likely correspond with their build times. We know that the Apollo class Ajax NCC-11574 was operational in 2327, so the class had to have been commissioned at least before that date.

4. The Bradbury is definitely a new class in the 2360's per its NX-72307 registry.

5. Both known Deneva class ships have 6XXX registries. Like the Apollo, since we never saw any of them on screen, it's possible that they simply didn't build all that many, and the ones we know about have registries that most likely correspond with their build times.

6. We know the Hokule'a class Tripoli NCC-19386 was active in 2338, so the class had to have been commissioned at least before that date.

For 2271 to 2305, I know of another class that entered service: the Lancelot-class.

Stay tuned for my petition to have its anachronistic design changed

 

[Unicron]

FASA also did the TNG era officer's manual, with a number of new classes and a rather interesting, overly armed version of the Galaxy (maybe closer to what the ship carried in the YE timeline? ). If you wish, I could arrange to send you information on those designs. The TNG OM also includes the Excelsior, Constellation and Enterprise (TMP Constitution) along with the new classes:

Decker class destroyer (named after the Decker family)
Wellington class light cruiser
Paine class frigate (based on the dialogue reference in "Conspiracy" although later sources would have the Thomas Paine as a New Orleans class ship)

Royal Sovereign class battlecruiser
M'Benga class medical vessel
Moscow class scout
Sagan class science vessel (an uprated version of the Oberth/Grissom design, which had appeared in prior FASA books as the Gagarin class)

Ambassador class (alternate design, based on the dialogue description in "Conspiracy." The OM was written before the physical model for the Ambassador was built, so the Enterprise-C was not a member of this design in the FASA Trekverse.)

Interestingly, the FASA Ambassador is described as the "newest" cruiser in the fleet despite using Excelsior and Constitution elements, even though designs like the Decker and Moscow are part of the TNG style design family.

 

[Dukhat]

Yep. The OM referred to the Enterprise-C as an Alaska class battlecruiser, because the author was unaware of the link between the Ambassador class and the Ent-C (only the Horatio was referred to as an Ambassador class on screen.) FASA’s Ambassador class (or ‘Ambassador Hardin’ class) looked like this:

http://fasaststcs.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/federation_ambassador_hardin_orig.jpg

And their depictions of the Constellation class and Romulan Warbird were woefully inaccurate.

 

[Unicron]

There's also an interesting debate on which class the 1701-B should belong to, as the Excelsior is a battleship in FASA and one camp wanted it to be a Constellation class ship instead, in keeping with the traditional exploration role. The pro-military Excelsior group ultimately won out due to rising tensions with the Klingons and the Romulans.

The OM is very inconsistent over the status of the Klingons becoming full Federation members in this continuity, and FASA got a lot of mileage in other modules from the conflict between the Klingons and other powers. Some parts of the book suggest that the Klingons are brand new members and are learning to integrate, with the Federation somehow building a large number of new hybrid vessels (the K'mirra class, based on the Klingon B-2 battleships) which incorporate Federation nacelles and phasers alongside Klingon systems. But the introduction also has the suggestion that with the Klingon Empire no longer a major enemy, Starfleet could become obsolete! FASA writing...

 

[Lakenheath 72]

The silhouette of the Korolev as a Connie is seen in the Operation: Retrieve plans. The simplest explanation is that this is the ship's class, as in every case where there is an association between a ship's name (Ahwahnee, Eagle, Endeavour, Potemkin) and a Connie silhouette on the plans, it has been confirmed to be a ship of this class by Mike Okuda.

The Drake in "The Arsenal of Freedom" and "Apocalypse Rising" might be the same ship. From the former episode, we have this snippet of dialog:

RICE: Our top speed is warp three. What's yours?
RIKER: Is? Then the Drake has not been destroyed.
RICE: The Drake?
RIKER: Yes, your ship.
RICE: Of course, my ship is the Drake.
RIKER: Where is it?
RICE: Classified.
RIKER: Classified?

So, the Drake is not destroyed, just hidden from sight.

Mike Okuda identified the T'Pau, destroyed by the Romulans in "Unification II", as an Apollo-class ship in the Encyclopedia.

We did see a ship of the Deneva-class, the Arcos, in TNG ("Legacy"), but it didn't look like a Starfleet ship. It was a reuse of the Batris, with slight modifications. Before Eaglemoss belly-upped, they did a scale model of this ship.

 

[Dukhat]

The silhouette of the Korolev as a Connie is seen in the Operation: Retrieve plans. The simplest explanation is that this is the ship's class, as in every case where there is an association between a ship's name (Ahwahnee, Eagle, Endeavour, Potemkin) and a Connie silhouette on the plans, it has been confirmed to be a ship of this class by Mike Okuda.

I have a love/hate relationship with Mr. Okuda. While there’s no question that he’s a great guy and has contributed much to the Star Trek universe, he’s not always right and I don’t slavishly accept everything he says. Cases in point: the Operation Retrieve chart shows every single ship that isn’t the Excelsior as a Connie refit silhouette (some large and some small.) Are we to believe that Starfleet only had that class available for their entire operation, based solely on generic silhouettes? I don’t think so. However, if Okuda was the one that made the chart, then in this instance I will bow to his superior knowledge, regardless if it makes logical sense or not.

The Drake in "The Arsenal of Freedom" and "Apocalypse Rising" might be the same ship. From the former episode, we have this snippet of dialog:

RICE: Our top speed is warp three. What's yours?
RIKER: Is? Then the Drake has not been destroyed.
RICE: The Drake?
RIKER: Yes, your ship.
RICE: Of course, my ship is the Drake.
RIKER: Where is it?
RICE: Classified.
RIKER: Classified?

So, the Drake is not destroyed, just hidden from sight.

While that’s an interesting bit of data, it was Okuda’s Encyclopedia that stated that the Drake in DS9 was a different ship than Paul Rice’s Drake. So if you’re accepting everything Okuda says as gospel, then they have to be two different ships, yes?

Also, all of this information is coming from a (bad) facsimile of Paul Rice, not the real thing. So it can’t be used as proof of anything.

Mike Okuda identified the T'Pau, destroyed by the Romulans in "Unification II", as an Apollo-class ship in the Encyclopedia.

There is no canon proof that the Vulcan ships were Starfleet Apollo class starships with NCC registries. I believe that this is a snafu (of which the Encyopedia contains several) and that we haven’t seen any Apollos on screen. This is yet another thing I disagree with Okuda about.

We did see a ship of the Deneva-class, the Arcos, in TNG ("Legacy"), but it didn't look like a Starfleet ship. It was a reuse of the Batris, with slight modifications. Before Eaglemoss belly-upped, they did a scale model of this ship.

If we examine the episode, it appears that the Arcos isn’t a Starfleet starship, only a Federation freighter, even though Okuda gave it a Starfleet registry number in the Encyclopedia. We only see the exterior in TNG-R, and they used the 2nd alien version of the Batris type for it, as you state. The ship neither looks like a Starfleet starship, nor do the two men who crewed it wear Starfleet uniforms. The problem (besides the aforementioned NCC registry from the Encyclopedia) is that the book also gives another vessel which is definitely a Starfleet vessel (the starship LaSalle) the class Deneva. I prefer to believe based on what my eyes show me that the LaSalle is the unseen Deneva class and the Arcos is just a civilian freighter with no link to the LaSalle, Starfleet, or the Deneva class in general, regardless of what Okuda or Eaglemoss wrote in their non-canon books.

 

[AaronMorse]

Just thinking about the Rigel Class.. Originally the USS Zhukov was a Rigel Class... MAYBE it was. Based on SNW the Constitution and Sombra Classes were built with similar components. (Some would say.. identical..myself included) So perhaps the Ambassador and Rigel class were along the same lines as well. Thoughts???

 

[Dukhat]

Just thinking about the Rigel Class.. Originally the USS Zhukov was a Rigel Class... MAYBE it was. Based on SNW the Constitution and Sombra Classes were built with similar components. (Some would say.. identical..myself included) So perhaps the Ambassador and Rigel class were along the same lines as well. Thoughts???

Since the Zhukov model was the second model built from the Ambassador class Enterprise-C mold, a case could be made that the differences between the former and the latter made the Zhukov a sub-class of the Ambassador. Making it a different class altogether (the Rigel) is also a possibility, but I don’t think that was Greg Jein’s intent, nor does the extreme range of registry numbers (the Ambassador’s 2XXXX as opposed to the Rigel’s 6XXXX) bear this theory out. As a matter of fact, the entire reason why Ambassador class ships have 2XXXX registries is because they flipped the first two numbers of the Zhukov (62136 to 26136) on the filming model because a 6XXXX registry for an Ambassador was deemed too high.

 

[Markonian]

Re: Bradbury class. A non-licenced RPG posited that the penultimate USS Voyager concept by Rick Sternbach is the Bradbury class.

I’d like to think that Starfleet commissioned the USS Voyager NCC-73606 was a Bradbury-class ship launched in 2368. Because the class underperformed, Voyager was decommissioned in 2370, and it’s name assigned to an Intrepid-class ship under construction.

Also, Star Trek Online has the 2360s-era looking Shi’Kahr class: https://community.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/11520243-a-brand-new-shi'kahr!

 

[Dukhat]

Re: Bradbury class. A non-licenced RPG posited that the penultimate USS Voyager concept by Rick Sternbach is the Bradbury class.

I’d like to think that Starfleet commissioned the USS Voyager NCC-73606 was a Bradbury-class ship launched in 2368. Because the class underperformed, Voyager was decommissioned in 2370, and it’s name assigned to an Intrepid-class ship under construction.

The USS Bradbury was a Starfleet Academy transport ship, per ‘Ménage a Troi.’ I don’t really see the Voyager concept design fulfilling that role. I see the Bradbury (and other ships of its class) more like space school buses.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41gqeUhDHkL.jpg

Also, Star Trek Online has the 2360s-era looking Shi’Kahr class: https://community.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/11520243-a-brand-new-shi'kahr!

Now that redesign should have been shown on screen. Whoever updated that design did his/her homework.

 

[Tuskin38]

Whoever updated that design did his/her homework.

Eric "EC" Henry. He's done over half a dozen other designs for STO so far. All of them being upgrades/redesigns of existing Trek ships.

https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Legendary_Columbia_Temporal_Operative_Escort
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Legendary_Ambassador_Intel_Support_Cruiser
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Da_Vinci_Miracle_Worker_Escort
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Earhart_Strike_Wing_Escort
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/M'Chla_Bird-of-Prey_Refit
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Appalachia_Blockade_Runner_Escort

He has a youtube channel, but has only covered one of his STO designs. Most of his videos are actually Star Wars ships he's designed/redesigned.

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Now that redesign should have been shown on screen.

It was released after Picard Season 2 had finished production, so it couldn't have made it. Maybe Season 3?

 

[Dukhat]

I can’t say that I care much for his other designs, although the Bird of Prey isn’t too bad (being as it is an extrapolation of the godawful DSC Bird of Prey.) I guess I like what he did with the Shi’Kahr because it looks like a credible pre-TNG design that would fit right in with the kitbashes seen in BoBW.

 

[Blip]

The USS Bradbury was a Starfleet Academy transport ship, per ‘Ménage a Troi.’ I don’t really see the Voyager concept design fulfilling that role. I see the Bradbury (and other ships of its class) more like space school buses.

IIRC there's nothing in the script nor shown onscreen that states the Bradbury is a dedicated transport ship. It's just as likely that she was either tasked with transportation duties (hardly the only class to have done such a milk run) or was simply going in the direction of Starfleet Acadamy, and thus in a convenient position to ferry Wesley there. As she would have been undergoing trials at the time, it makes a certain amount of sense that the Bradbury would only be performing light duties such as this.

 

[Dukhat]

IIRC there's nothing in the script nor shown onscreen that states the Bradbury is a dedicated transport ship. It's just as likely that she was either tasked with transportation duties (hardly the only class to have done such a milk run) or was simply going in the direction of Starfleet Acadamy, and thus in a convenient position to ferry Wesley there. As she would have been undergoing trials at the time, it makes a certain amount of sense that the Bradbury would only be performing light duties such as this.

Sure, I get that. And you're probably right. Here's the line in question:

PICARD: Indeed. Fine work. We shall miss you, Mister Crusher. As you've guessed, final entrance examination scores from Starfleet Academy have arrived. Congratulations. As soon as you have completed the oral exam, you'll be formally admitted.
RIKER: We'll have you back at Betazed in plenty of time to meet up with the Academy transport ship.

However, in the absence of other information (warp drive performance tests notwithstanding), I am going under the assumption that the ship's main function is a transport for Academy cadets. YMMV.

 

[Arpy]

Ships I didn’t see upthread:
Canon ships:
Intrepid
California

Non-canon:
Saber Class, Mark I
USS Preble—the deflector on top reminds me of the deflector on the bottom of the Akira. Like it’s an organic growth. Fits the galaxy era.
Victory Class by Jetfreak-7 on DeviantArt is somewhere between Ambassador and Galaxy. Makes me think of a hotrod or clipper ship or something—a smaller vessel built for speed.
Orion Class by Ashley ringer on DeviantArt. Similar to the Victory, and maybe too similar to the Galaxy for your project, it’s called a “Pocket Galaxy” for being the Galaxy’s Mini Me.

May I suggest playing around with the Curry Class for the TNG era. It’s a unique configuration that I find intriguing.