Time Squared

[Gingerbread Demon]

I love this episode to bits anyone else?

However watching it again the same old questions hit me.

Did Picard flat out murder his counterpart and wouldn't that have created problems for the timeline he came from?

 

[Timo]

Picard is a soldier plenipotentiary (not to mention a justice of peace): he carries not just a gun but also a license to kill. Enemies of the state go down at his discretion. I see no problem there...

However, "flat out murder" is not our only option here, and is IMHO actually rather unlikely. The gun Picard carries has a stun setting. This is the setting he would most likely have used to merely stop an opponent from performing an action. It's just that his opponent was a frail man, two steps from dying to begin with. And thus stun kills.

Not that anybody ought to have problems with that, because suicide is legal in the UFP, and so is killing one's clone. (Bajoran law might be different, as per DS9 "A Man Alone", but we get examples of the UFP way in various TNG eps.)

Remarkably, after Picard fires his gun, the other Picard slumps down, lifeless - and the shooter then calls Dr. Pulaski. Why would Picard call the Doctor if he wanted his other self dead? Indeed, why shoot on a setting that leaves a corpse if the intent is to erase an inconvenient duplicate from complicating things?

It also takes quite a while for Pulaski to ascertain either that the gunned-down Picard is dead, or that he is about to die and nothing can be done about that. McCoy never had to twiddle his tricorder for that long to tell "He's dead, Jim"...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Steven P Bastien]

It's confusing though. I am not recalling exactly what happens on stun setting in TNG. Does stun normally make sparks and burn marks?

 

[Timo]

The TNG phasers have up to 16 settings, indicated by small lights (that we unfortunately can't see in this particular, well, shot). I'm sure there's room there for a stun that chars!

It's surprisingly consistent, really: you need eight lights to achieve disintegration, while up to three may indicate nonlethal shots, just like the backstage Technical Manual suggests. Watch, say, "Vengeance Factor" and the infamous scene of Riker gunning down the bioweapon named Yuta with three distinct shots, each with the proper setting indicated by the lights on his gun.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Doug Otte]

"Time Squared". I love it, too.

Picard's dread at this situation is palpably portrayed in the acting, directing, and score. I also like how the wormhole thing is never explained. Surely explorers would encounter things they couldn't explain, and I wish that had happened more during the series.

 

[Steven P Bastien]

The TNG phasers have up to 16 settings, indicated by small lights (that we unfortunately can't see in this particular, well, shot). I'm sure there's room there for a stun that chars!

Hmmm, interesting. Picard seemed particularly upset with his alternate self. Perhaps he kicked it up a couple of notches to give him a little extra sizzle, but overdid it and accidentally killed the weakened man.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

"Time Squared". I love it, too.

Picard's dread at this situation is palpably portrayed in the acting, directing, and score. I also like how the wormhole thing is never explained. Surely explorers would encounter things they couldn't explain, and I wish that had happened more during the series.

I believe the episode originally was supposed to be a follow up to Q Who but something changed in the creative process.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Picard is a soldier plenipotentiary (not to mention a justice of peace): he carries not just a gun but also a license to kill. Enemies of the state go down at his discretion. I see no problem there...

However, "flat out murder" is not our only option here, and is IMHO actually rather unlikely. The gun Picard carries has a stun setting. This is the setting he would most likely have used to merely stop an opponent from performing an action. It's just that his opponent was a frail man, two steps from dying to begin with. And thus stun kills.

Not that anybody ought to have problems with that, because suicide is legal in the UFP, and so is killing one's clone. (Bajoran law might be different, as per DS9 "A Man Alone", but we get examples of the UFP way in various TNG eps.)

Remarkably, after Picard fires his gun, the other Picard slumps down, lifeless - and the shooter then calls Dr. Pulaski. Why would Picard call the Doctor if he wanted his other self dead? Indeed, why shoot on a setting that leaves a corpse if the intent is to erase an inconvenient duplicate from complicating things?

It also takes quite a while for Pulaski to ascertain either that the gunned-down Picard is dead, or that he is about to die and nothing can be done about that. McCoy never had to twiddle his tricorder for that long to tell "He's dead, Jim"...

Timo Saloniemi

I don't think it the phaser was set on stun, because of the flying sparks which are usually seen when people use settings higher than than that.

If we go by the scale of the TNG technical manual, my guess is that the phaser was most likely set on either 4 or 5.

Edit: By the way, it's also one of my absolute favorite episodes too.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Here's a link to my theory that "Time's Squared" is connected to "All Good Things" and the events of this episode were caused by Q to prepare Picard for the trial against humanity.

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/the...for-the-final-test-in-all-good-things.297382/

 

[Vger23]

I love this episode. It's one of the few TNG episodes that made me feel like they were in deep space, all alone, and those wonders / mysteries / terrors were all very real.

Unfortunately, I have no idea how to answer your question. I actually think the ambiguity is pretty awesome.

 

[Prax]

There seem to be some parallels to the Doomsday Machine in this episode.

 

[Timo]

The one thing that went wrong with the writing was placing the ship on a course towards a set destination (the Endicor system), rather than having her idly exploring. If the heroes are on a beeline from A to E, and learn that ahead lies destruction, then the only reasonable course of action for avoiding a time loop is to deviate from that beeline, a move the "initial set of heroes" would never have performed.

The situation is completely different in, say, "Cause and Effect", where the heroes indeed idy wander about in the Typhon Expanse, and there's no way to predict which left or right turn would take them into a time loop and which would lead out of it.

Apart from that, there's reasonable speculation, natural-sounding banter, asking of all the right questions, and a bunch of relevant references to past adventures. And still the episode is ultimately a mood piece, handled differently from a "standard adventure" with a palatable sense of dread and uncertainty rather than just a series of plot complications. Me likes.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Vger23]

There seem to be some parallels to the Doomsday Machine in this episode.

Such as?

 

[Prax]

Picard and Decker try to sacrifice themselves so that their crews might live. Both their ships end up destroyed while they remain the sole survivor, and feel guilt and anger about not having gone down with their ships.

Maybe there's more, like McCoy reaction, i dunno. I haven't seen time's squared in a long time

 

[Unicron]

Maurice Hurley had intended to show that Q was responsible for the anomaly in this episode, as a test for the Enterprise, and it would have originally tied into his appearance in "Q Who?" Had things gone as he originally intended, when Q brings Picard to the shuttlecraft in the opening, he'd have seen the Enterprise in the vortex from "Time Squared." Gene apparently didn't like the idea of tying these Q-centric elements together, and Hurley disliked not being able to use them because he felt the canon ending of TS doesn't make sense otherwise. It's less clear why going through the seemingly destructive vortex is the right decision., when having Q show it to be a test would have provided more context.

 

[Doug Otte]

Thanks for starting this thread. It prompted me to rewatch "Time Squared" last night. I hadn't seen it for several years. I still enjoyed it immensely.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Thanks for starting this thread. It prompted me to rewatch "Time Squared" last night. I hadn't seen it for several years. I still enjoyed it immensely.

It's a neat episode.

Oddly I like some episodes that others hate. I love Evolution

 

[UnknownSample]

Unicron, thanks, I never knew specifically how it was going to tie into Q Who (and later The Neutral Zone and the destruction of the Romulan Empire by a Borg scout ship).

As for Picard, get with the science fiction... it's not murder, he's eliminating the factor of his future self, whom he is destined to become in a few hours anyway. The problematic thing is that if there's an inescapable time loop,. he himself will be the Picard being shot then. But shooting his future self was an attempt to break out of the loop?

 

[Doug Otte]

I forgot to mention: there's just one thing that has always struck me as a jarring note in this episode. In the intro, when Riker is preparing eggs, Worf makes a comment about human females being the primary meal-preparers, and Riker agrees.

Even in the 80s, and due to TNG being so progressive, I thought that sounded off. Now, even more so. But, it's a minor quibble.

 

[Qonundrum]

It's one of my favorites! The idea of seeing future events before they happened is something of a sci-fi staple and is well-applied, even though we're left to guess what the mystery tornado thing is or wants or why...

...which might be deliberate and the (fan theory?) that Q behind it, on reflection, makes more sense that it's not addressed on screen because saying too much could backfire and seem hokey. But adds highly probable circumstantial evidence that Q is constantly testing them but without use grandiose theatrics to announce his presence! Which is a partial shame as I adore grandiose theatrics... Troi can sense Q nearby if close, or said she could early on but since season one she's never said a peep while realizing everyone else would have figured it out. Or did a deal with him so she plays poker face, now there's a fun novel to sew up canon for Peter David to write... But Troi being mum aside, maybe the Q figured out how not to be noticed by telepathic beings, which falls back into her not saying a peep.

It's a lovely excursion into Picard's mindset as well as getting some tidbits out of the crew and the sense of mystery and worry over what they're about to stumble across are palpable and intriguing, without being overbearing or out of proportion.


Evolution is another top tier episode as a whole (IMHO). It starts out the season rightly enough, proving at the very start we're watching something radically different yet is the same show. still has sci-fi concepts, takes a dramatic turn that for now has balance, and looks so much more lush - even the beige hotel in space has more of a panache. And it only gets better. At least for the episode after its introduction where some major and majorly cool action we'd expect from an exploratory show with a flagship happens, and throughout the next couple of seasons... I'm surprised the newly sentient nanites didn't kill Dr Stubbs, or "Stubby" as they doubtlessly nicknamed him (something TNG would not do but Orville might), but then we'd get a third of the story devoted to "Nanites are like children"/"Yes but when the child throws a tantrum you don't kill it even though it tried to kill you" exchange like from ST : TMP...