The makeup for Original Series Klingons

[Warped9]

I think the idea behind TMP--especially with them thinking it was most likely a one time feature rather than the beginning of a franchise--was the chance to do things at a level that was previously impossible on a 1960's television budget. It was almost like saying, "This is what it's supposed to really look like."

While fans can be concerned with continuity and consistency the producers might not give those things the same weight. The changes seen in TMP could be better rationalized if it was set about a decade after TOS rather than only three years.

But even that doesn't explain the appearance of the Klingons. There isn't but one measly snippet of reference in the film to at least allude to the drastic change in their appearance.

If I'm not mistaken the issue was addressed by some writing the books at the time (after TMP's release) where the idea took root that what we saw in TOS and TMP were two distinct races or types of Klingons. That idea worked well enough until TSFS and TNG onward where the new model Klingons were used exclusively. TUC seemed to be the only blip in that universal depiction.

 

[topcat]

why do I remember an article on how the television studio spent more money on airbrushing out Spocks ears and make up tint for publicity photos, then the show spent doing the makeup on spock for the actual show?

Look at DS9 and TNG. For some reason if you look real closely, youll notice that the actors played by black actors have a skin tone about 3 shades darker then those played by white actors.
As a result it was hypothesized simply genetics. and different racial groups in the Klingon empire.

black irish a term you've heard right?

 

[Christopher]

why do I remember an article on how the television studio spent more money on airbrushing out Spocks ears and make up tint for publicity photos, then the show spent doing the makeup on spock for the actual show?

I dunno, but any article that did make that claim was bogus. There was only one promotional flyer that airbrushed Spock's ears and eyebrows, I believe, and modifying one photo would be much, much less costly than a single session in the makeup chair for Leonard Nimoy, not to mention six or seven sessions a week for three years.

 

[Harvey]

I dunno, but any article that did make that claim was bogus. There was only one promotional flyer that airbrushed Spock's ears and eyebrows, I believe, and modifying one photo would be much, much less costly than a single session in the makeup chair for Leonard Nimoy, not to mention six or seven sessions a week for three years.

4-5 sessions a week, I would think. The original series didn't shoot on weekends.

 

[Christopher]

^Well... They might've had to do touch-up sessions now and then...

Not to mention the time required to remove the makeup after filming, come to think of it. So that'd be two sessions per day, effectively.

 

[Harvey]

^Well... They might've had to do touch-up sessions now and then...

Not to mention the time required to remove the makeup after filming, come to think of it. So that'd be two sessions per day, effectively.

Good point.

 

[johnnybear]

why do I remember an article on how the television studio spent more money on airbrushing out Spocks ears and make up tint for publicity photos, then the show spent doing the makeup on spock for the actual show?

Look at DS9 and TNG. For some reason if you look real closely, youll notice that the actors played by black actors have a skin tone about 3 shades darker then those played by white actors.
As a result it was hypothesized simply genetics. and different racial groups in the Klingon empire.

black irish a term you've heard right?

Black Irish? Is that the same or opposite of a white African?
JB

 

[Christopher]

Black Irish? Is that the same or opposite of a white African?
JB

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_people#Black_Irish

Black Irish is an ambiguous term sometimes used (mainly outside Ireland) as a reference to a dark-haired phenotype appearing in people of Irish origin.[35] However, dark hair in people of Irish descent is common, although darker skin complexions appear less frequently.[36] One popular speculation suggests the Black Irish are descendants of survivors of the Spanish Armada, despite research discrediting such claims.[37] In his documentary series Atlantean, Bob Quinn explores an alternative 'Iberian' hypothesis, proposing the existence of an ancient sea-trading route skirting the Atlantic coast from North Africa and the Iberian Peninsula to regions such as Connemara. While preferring the term "The Atlantean Irish", Quinn's reference to certain phenotypical characteristics (within elements of the Irish populace and diaspora) as possible evidence of a previous Hibernian-Iberian (and possibly Berber) admixture mirrors common descriptions of the Black Irish.[38]

The term has also come to be used to refer to the African-Irish descendants of those who live on Montserrat.[39] A number of whom have Irish surnames, still retain part of their Irish accents and sing bilingual songs.[40]

 

[Terok Nor]

I loved the old style Klingons. But then I loved the look of the newer style Klingons too. What I really missed in the TNG era was the downright nastiness of the Klingons. I know we had a few like Duras and his sisters but I became so bored with the Klingon honour manta. A once exciting species was reduced to a boring stereotype. You could say the evil Klingons were stereotypes too but they were a lot more fun!

As for the original makeup I thought it was fine. Add a few forehead ridges and it would look pretty much the same as what came later. TOS Klingons had the bushy eyebrows and scruffy beards. It was a mistake to try to explain where the ridges came from. It's not like the writers ever bothered to explain why the Romulans had smooth foreheads in TOS and bumpy foreheads in TNG. Just assume both versions are the same race and move on.

 

[johnnybear]

Yes I was gonna quote the Spanish armada and the ships that crashed on the Irish shores! Apparently that's where the name Moriarty comes from I was told. But the page denies that theory!
JB

 

[The Old Mixer]

the Klingon honour manta

Kahless had a pet fish?

 

[Poltargyst]

I loved the old style Klingons. But then I loved the look of the newer style Klingons too. What I really missed in the TNG era was the downright nastiness of the Klingons. I know we had a few like Duras and his sisters but I became so bored with the Klingon honour manta. A once exciting species was reduced to a boring stereotype. You could say the evil Klingons were stereotypes too but they were a lot more fun!

As for the original makeup I thought it was fine. Add a few forehead ridges and it would look pretty much the same as what came later. TOS Klingons had the bushy eyebrows and scruffy beards. It was a mistake to try to explain where the ridges came from. It's not like the writers ever bothered to explain why the Romulans had smooth foreheads in TOS and bumpy foreheads in TNG. Just assume both versions are the same race and move on.

The fact that Romulans in TNG are so different from what they were in TOS is a real pet peeve of mine, and I think it SHOULD be explained. Or better yet, don't make the changes in the first place.

 

[Christopher]

The fact that Romulans in TNG are so different from what they were in TOS is a real pet peeve of mine, and I think it SHOULD be explained. Or better yet, don't make the changes in the first place.

I think it was meant to be the same sort of thing as the changes in the Klingon ships in TMP -- that implicitly they'd always looked that way, but we could see them with more detail and clarity now.

I mean, trying to explain every makeup change can drive you crazy. The Andorians have had a half-dozen different looks. The Ferengi acquired protruding cheekbones after a couple of seasons. Bajoran nosepieces were reworked and simplified when DS9 began, and Ro Laren's nose changed without explanation. Worf's entire forehead was redesigned between season 1 and season 2 -- and his first-season forehead turned up on a Klingon crewman in "A Matter of Honor"! Tiburons acquired a row of head spikes when they appeared on DS9, though their ears were the same as Dr. Sevrin's. Trill and Ktarians underwent complete changes of makeup design between TNG and their later appearances. Sometimes the most sensible thing to do is to remember that this is just a bunch of make-believe and sometimes the people making it up have better ideas and change their minds.

For what it's worth, though -- most of the Romulans we saw in TOS and the movies were wearing helmets that covered their foreheads. It was mostly senior officers and ambassadors that we saw bareheaded and smooth-browed. So I tend to assume that most Romulans always had TNG-style foreheads, but the smooth-browed minority dominated society and held the higher-ranking roles during the 23rd century. By the TNG era, there'd been a social upheaval that had put the majority in power and relegated the smooth-browed ones to the lower classes (Nero and his crew were working-class miners).

 

[Poltargyst]

I think it was meant to be the same sort of thing as the changes in the Klingon ships in TMP -- that implicitly they'd always looked that way, but we could see them with more detail and clarity now.

I mean, trying to explain every makeup change can drive you crazy. The Andorians have had a half-dozen different looks. The Ferengi acquired protruding cheekbones after a couple of seasons. Bajoran nosepieces were reworked and simplified when DS9 began, and Ro Laren's nose changed without explanation. Worf's entire forehead was redesigned between season 1 and season 2 -- and his first-season forehead turned up on a Klingon crewman in "A Matter of Honor"! Tiburons acquired a row of head spikes when they appeared on DS9, though their ears were the same as Dr. Sevrin's. Trill and Ktarians underwent complete changes of makeup design between TNG and their later appearances. Sometimes the most sensible thing to do is to remember that this is just a bunch of make-believe and sometimes the people making it up have better ideas and change their minds.

For what it's worth, though -- most of the Romulans we saw in TOS and the movies were wearing helmets that covered their foreheads. It was mostly senior officers and ambassadors that we saw bareheaded and smooth-browed. So I tend to assume that most Romulans always had TNG-style foreheads, but the smooth-browed minority dominated society and held the higher-ranking roles during the 23rd century. By the TNG era, there'd been a social upheaval that had put the majority in power and relegated the smooth-browed ones to the lower classes (Nero and his crew were working-class miners).

No, TNG doesn't get off that easy. It was a major plot point in BOTH TOS Romulan stories that Vulcans and Romulans are nearly identical. So much so that Chekov using the ship's sensors has trouble picking Spock out of a ship of Romulans. So TNG comes along and just throws that piece of TOS lore away. And for what?

 

[STEPhon IT]

TNG producers wanted to make the Romulans generic; I thought bumpy foreheads were a terrible idea.

 

[Poltargyst]

And while I'm ranting about TOS-era Romulans vs. TNG-era Romulans, it always bothered me that in TNG they turned the Romulans into a bunch of backstabbing weasels. In TOS, the Romulans had honor. Oh, they were aggressive, and you didn't want them to win, but they weren't the weasels they were made out to be in TNG. So what is the purpose of turning around and making the Romulans weasels in TNG? So that Worf can grouse about how Romulans have no honor?

And another thing, (I'm on a roll now), what was the deal with every Romulan or Vulcan in TNG having to have that same stupid cookie-cutter Spock hair wig? How many Vulcans or Romulans in TOS actually had that hairstyle? I mean there's Spock and who else? So why did we need every Romulan in TNG to have that hairstyle?

 

[Christopher]

No, TNG doesn't get off that easy. It was a major plot point in BOTH TOS Romulan stories that Vulcans and Romulans are nearly identical. So much so that Chekov using the ship's sensors has trouble picking Spock out of a ship of Romulans. So TNG comes along and just throws that piece of TOS lore away. And for what?

Don't mistake superficial differences for substantial ones. Humans spent centuries believing that differences in skin color, eye shape, hair texture, and the like divided us into fundamentally alien races, but in fact those differences account for only a few percent of our genetic variation and are biologically insignificant. So just because Romulans and Vulcans look different to the eye, that doesn't mean they'd read as different to sensors.

TNG producers wanted to make the Romulans generic

Just the opposite -- I presume they wanted to make them visually distinct from Vulcans.

And while I'm ranting about TOS-era Romulans vs. TNG-era Romulans, it always bothered me that in TNG they turned the Romulans into a bunch of backstabbing weasels. In TOS, the Romulans had honor. Oh, they were aggressive, and you didn't want them to win, but they weren't the weasels they were made out to be in TNG. So what is the purpose of turning around and making the Romulans weasels in TNG? So that Worf can grouse about how Romulans have no honor?

Here's the thing: The villains in The Search for Spock were originally going to be Romulans, which is why they had Birds-of-Prey and cloaking devices and talked about honor. They were changed to Klingons without any of that being changed, and so suddenly Klingons had a sense of honor. When TNG came along and made Klingons the good guys, they embraced that idea of Klingon honor. But then the Romulans had to be the bad guys, and so they had to become the treacherous ones.

Still, it's not really a contradiction. Remember in "Balance of Terror" -- the Commander and his Centurion had a sense of honor, but they lamented how the likes of the Praetor and Decius were leaving those honorable traditions behind and valuing war for its own sake instead. The idea of an honorable generation of Romulans losing ground to a more treacherous generation was around long before TNG; it was a major theme in Diane Duane's Rihannsu novels.

And another thing, (I'm on a roll now), what was the deal with every Romulan or Vulcan in TNG having to have that same stupid cookie-cutter Spock hair wig? How many Vulcans or Romulans in TOS actually had that hairstyle? I mean there's Spock and who else? So why did we need every Romulan in TNG to have that hairstyle?

Now, that I can't justify. I never cared for the uniformity of Trek aliens. Why does every Klingon warrior wear the exact same armor in two different centuries? Why does every world have one hairstyle, one fashion sense, one language, one naming convention, one culture, one religion, one state, etc.?

 

[STEPhon IT]

And while I'm ranting about TOS-era Romulans vs. TNG-era Romulans, it always bothered me that in TNG they turned the Romulans into a bunch of backstabbing weasels. In TOS, the Romulans had honor. Oh, they were aggressive, and you didn't want them to win, but they weren't the weasels they were made out to be in TNG. So what is the purpose of turning around and making the Romulans weasels in TNG? So that Worf can grouse about how Romulans have no honor?

And another thing, (I'm on a roll now), what was the deal with every Romulan or Vulcan in TNG having to have that same stupid cookie-cutter Spock hair wig? How many Vulcans or Romulans in TOS actually had that hairstyle? I mean there's Spock and who else? So why did we need every Romulan in TNG to have that hairstyle?

Yeah. TNG lacked imagination when it came to TOS aliens. I can understand it because TNG needed to bring forth their own world of characters which were excellent IMO. Fannish writers couldn't leave things be, and done some strange handling of the characters to me. Yes. Romulans had honor in the TOS, and it was missed. I didn't understand why the production couldn't produce different wigs to distinguish the races, but it saved money, it not as if we saw too many Romulan/Vulcan story lines.

 

[TheSubCommander]

Yeah. TNG lacked imagination when it came to TOS aliens. I can understand it because TNG needed to bring forth their own world of characters which were excellent IMO. Fannish writers couldn't leave things be, and done some strange handling of the characters to me. Yes. Romulans had honor in the TOS, and it was missed. I didn't understand why the production couldn't produce different wigs to distinguish the races, but it saved money, it not as if we saw too many Romulan/Vulcan story lines.

I wouldn't say TNG lacked imagination, but you make a good point otherwise. Basically: In TOS the Romulans were honorable and the Klingons were devious, but by the Romulans and Klingons flip flopped. Now, much of that was to make the Klingons sympathetic, and make the Romulans the antagonist, after the Ferengi pretty much flopped as the new big bad. But I still question the choice on how to depict the Klingons and Romulans.

Personally, the Klingon-Federation alliance never made much sense to be, other than to explain why Worf was on the Enterprise, and to show something changed from TOS to TNG. Based on the TOS portrayal, it seemed to me that of the two powers, the Romulans would have been more likely to ally themselves with the Federation (after the Romulan-Klingon alliance of TOS fell apart). You had the Vulcan-Romulan common ancestry for one. Second, it seemed that the Romulans at that time had a sense of honor, and literally seemed more like humans, just more passionate.

However, by TNG it became the Klingons who were the honorable and passionate ones. But even during TNg and DS9 for that matter, it seemed like the KLingons thought of themselves as honorable, but time and again they seemed to fall short of honor. Really, the only honorable ones were Worf, and Martok. The rest seemed to be honorable only when convenient, and wouldn't think twice stabbing the Feds in the back, for their benefit. In short, the Klingons were terrible allies.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

And while I'm ranting about TOS-era Romulans vs. TNG-era Romulans, it always bothered me that in TNG they turned the Romulans into a bunch of backstabbing weasels. In TOS, the Romulans had honor. Oh, they were aggressive, and you didn't want them to win, but they weren't the weasels they were made out to be in TNG. So what is the purpose of turning around and making the Romulans weasels in TNG? So that Worf can grouse about how Romulans have no honor?

I suspect that part of the reason for the switch to honorable Klingons is that it made it LOT easier to justify why they now had a peaceful relationship with the Federation.

And another thing, (I'm on a roll now), what was the deal with every Romulan or Vulcan in TNG having to have that same stupid cookie-cutter Spock hair wig? How many Vulcans or Romulans in TOS actually had that hairstyle? I mean there's Spock and who else? So why did we need every Romulan in TNG to have that hairstyle?

That drives me NUTS. Is the Moe Howard haircut the only logical way to style your hair? You'd think there might be a Vulcan or a Romulan who shaves their head or slicks their hair back once in a while.