The "Keiko situation" (Rascals)

[JirinPanthosa]

You certainly can't blame O'Brien for being uncomfortable. But you also have to think, Keiko was in an emotionally difficult place and needed some kind of emotional comfort even if it was just a hug. As a husband it's kind of his obligation to provide that comfort to the extent Keiko needed it.

It's true Keiko's brain chemistry was different but all her memories and her built up habits and behavioral reactions are still there. The difference in brain chemistry would have changed her feelings and reactions but philosophically speaking would not change who she was at her core.

I mean, it's a show about mankind putting principle before instinct. I'd like to think, in the long run, O'Brien would have adjusted to Keiko having the form of a much younger person.

 

[SignGuyHPW]

It was kind of an uncomfortable moment. I don't think Keiko was really understanding the awkwardness it would pose to Miles. I don't think ANY of them realised that the crew would be a little uncomfortable with children replacing the adult officers they knew. It'd be instinct for them to initially treat them as children except for Data I would imagine.

 

[Timewalker]

I don't think I'd have hangups with a little person my age though, no matter how old she really looked. I'd just hope she'd have the sense to wear an adult hairstyle and other signals of obvious adulthood. What do female little people do so people don't see them as children? Males can grow beards, but females don't have that option.

There was a TV series "Little People, Big World" some years back. The females age normally, like anyone else. The only difference is that they're shorter and sometimes suffer chronic musculo-skeletal problems.

How can you have an adult consciousness in a kid's body anyway. Isn't your entire brain different?

Ever read the first 3 Dune books by Frank Herbert? The characters of Alia, Leto, and Ghanima Atreides all had adult consciousnesses in children's bodies. Mind you, they were born that way.

As for the "situation" O'Brien couldn't be blamed too much for being uncomfortable but it's likely after time they would have adjusted and found a balance that made it work. Any physical encounters likely would have waited until Keiko's body matured more and O'Brien got over any societal ickiness over it. Society itself likely wouldn't give their situation a second glance considering the kind of world they live in. She could be in with aliens and all kind of goofy shit being possible, O'Brien could explain to any second-glancers with a "transporter accident." Looker: "Ah! Gotcha!" and then they nod at one another and continue on their way.

Miles might have had problems early on, but as Keiko matured physically, he should eventually get over it. The real problem would be Keiko's relationship to her own daughter, Molly. That would likely take a longer time to sort out, while Miles would probably be unconsciously thinking of both of them as his daughters.

I never liked adult Keiko, so this could have been a golden opportunity for her to grow up again into a nicer person!

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yrst8gmd9Cw[/yt]

That scene where Riker and Picard hug is just priceless!

 

[Trekker4747]

I never liked adult Keiko, so this could have been a golden opportunity for her to grow up again into a nicer person!

She was a bit of a shrew, wasn't she?

 

[Timewalker]

I never liked adult Keiko, so this could have been a golden opportunity for her to grow up again into a nicer person!

She was a bit of a shrew, wasn't she?

Yep. She always put down Miles' choices, from food to hobbies to friends. I was actually surprised that she didn't send him a "Dear Miles" letter from Bajor, telling him how boring he was and that she'd found happiness among the plants (and a new guy who didn't eat porridge and all the other Northern European foods she despised). No wonder Miles preferred to spend his spare time with Julian!

 

[A beaker full of death]

I honestly never felt any chemistry between them. Nada.

 

[T'Girl]

One of the girls on campus was 20, but she was what used to be described as a midget (not a dwarf). Technically, she had proportionate dwarfism, with no deformities of the body.

A "homunculus," a perfectly proportioned small person.

(thank you big bang theory)

Yeah, the puberty thing is big. In truth, she would NOT be the same person emotionally, because her hormones would be so different.

There's also the likelihood that Keiko had a intact hymen again, and so would physically "lose" her virginity to Miles.

 

[Mojochi]

Yup... That's where this thread didn't need to go^

 

[Use of Time]

Yup... That's where this thread didn't need to go^

It was only a matter of time.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

...And there it is: a brand new low.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

ETA: In regard to the Picard and Riker hugging scene...
That scene was hysterical.

 

[Trekker4747]

One of the girls on campus was 20, but she was what used to be described as a midget (not a dwarf). Technically, she had proportionate dwarfism, with no deformities of the body.

A "homunculus," a perfectly proportioned small person.

(thank you big bang theory)

Yeah, the puberty thing is big. In truth, she would NOT be the same person emotionally, because her hormones would be so different.

There's also the likelihood that Keiko had a intact hymen again, and so would physically "lose" her virginity to Miles.

And.... there it is. We're now on Chris Hannsen's watch list and now have to notify our neighbors when we move in. Thanks for that. There was zero call to go there.

 

[publiusr]

Creepy

Now Colm's character Durant in Hell on Wheels wouldn't have cared--or at least some of the folks then.


I think you had child brides in ancient times--but they were actually in waiting--arrainged pre-planned things...


Then too a hundred years ago, people married young because they died young. I heard it said that the woman in one of the more famous dust-bowl photographs was actually only in her 20's. And there was that Couples therapy woman who was a teen bridge who actually looked in her 30's


I still think of myself as a teenager--and yet there are folks who look older than me who are a decade younger. Hormones in milk I guess.


Something that might even be stranger than the situation in question here is this. I think one of our Presidents offered a pension not just for Civil War vets but their spouses. Now some of you have heard of the tale of the worlds oldest living confederate widow.


No, they don't remember the civil war, they were just forced by their poor parents (or starvation) to marry some old creep for survival. The groom would do the bride the very great favor of dying--although there have been tales of the girls then having consorts more there own age--in case the wedding was just for title.


If not the girl would have children early in life, and when they grew up, she could be independantly wealthy, one way or the other.


I'm thinking that the suffragettes we all imagine to be wearing big dresses and driving the old phone booth type electric cars were the result of such odd pairings--and their disgust actually helped Womens Rights. Only with that pension and the death of overbearing husbands could independant action exist...go figure.



Now I seem to remember a C-SPAN author, a woman who talked about a native american nation that encouraged mediocrity. If you loved a violin too much, you were to smash it. They had an odd habit of keeping young folks of different genders apart. You don't need a youth culture to detach and form--or you get unwanted pregnancies. Thier solution--of all things, was for the first...um..experience of each young man to be with a much much older woman and vice versa.


Now all of us grew up in the post Lewis Carrol days with extended childhoods. Now, you have to graduate college and be in mid to late 20s before you are a real person--also un-natural with respect to biology. In the middle ages, children were painted as little adults--maybe this is what the Governor meant by "Men and Woeman" in THE WALKING DEAD.


Let's hope it doesn't get back to that.

 

[Amaris]

Keiko's clearly capable of consent though her form seemed distinctly pre-puberty so I'm not sure how it would have worked.

Hugging and having adult conversations certainly is not wrong but I think puberty is a cutoff for the sexual situation. If it were a permanent situation, and Keiko was through puberty, I think O'Brien would have adjusted to it. ...

This echoes my thoughts on the matter. It would be awkward at first, but she's still an adult, still his wife, and still the same, intellectually and emotionally. He could adjust.

 

[Trekker4747]

But she isn't *exactly* the same emotionally. The hormones of a pre-teen to teenage girl are very different than the hormones of an adult woman. That's have a pretty big impact on her emotions as she grew-up.

 

[Amaris]

But she isn't *exactly* the same emotionally. The hormones of a pre-teen to teenage girl are very different than the hormones of an adult woman. That's have a pretty big impact on her emotions as she grew-up.

Except that she retained all of her emotional intellect. She's just in a younger body. Remember, this is Star Trek technomagic, where DNA de-evolves you and re-evolves you in the same episode.

 

[T'Girl]

She's just in a younger body.

But Keiko isn't just in "a younger body," she is now physically a child. It's not like she's suddenly twenty-one again.

What if instead she were four years old. Still okay?

 

[R. Star]

Wow... if that's okay the future is pedo friendly as long as you have access to a transporter....

 

[Hober Mallow]

I don't think I even understand this thread.

It's been a couple decades since I saw the episode, but I don't remember sex even having anything to do with this scene. As I recall, the scene was simply Miles being uncomfortable showing affection to Keiko, prompting the two to wonder if their relationship could transcend Keiko's physical transformation. Molly didn't recognize Keiko as her mother and Miles had a hard time seeing her as his wife. I don't think either Miles or Keiko were worried about "getting off." That wasn't the issue, it was how they were going to preserve their relationship and their family, or if they were going to have to readjust Keiko's role in the family. There was no dilemma about whether or not they should have sex.

 

[Timewalker]

I think you had child brides in ancient times--but they were actually in waiting--arrainged pre-planned things...

Read a newspaper lately? There are child brides in the Middle East. The most recent example I can think of is a 10-year-old who died when her much-older bridegroom decided he couldn't wait 8 or 10 years to consummate the marriage. She was so badly injured, it killed her.

Also, there are a couple of Mormon offshoot groups who regularly traffick in child brides. They take young girls across the Canada/US border, and when the Canadian authorities try to stop it, the leaders of these groups wail about "freedom of religion". Apparently freedom of religion trumps minor things like age of consent, statutory rape, etc.

I don't think I even understand this thread.

It's been a couple decades since I saw the episode, but I don't remember sex even having anything to do with this scene. As I recall, the scene was simply Miles being uncomfortable showing affection to Keiko, prompting the two to wonder if their relationship could transcend Keiko's physical transformation. Molly didn't recognize Keiko as her mother and Miles had a hard time seeing her as his wife. I don't think either Miles or Keiko were worried about "getting off." That wasn't the issue, it was how they were going to preserve their relationship and their family, or if they were going to have to readjust Keiko's role in the family. There was no dilemma about whether or not they should have sex.

Of course sex was a part of it. Or are you imagining that Miles wasn't in the slightest way wondering what would happen to his sex life if he had to wait for his formerly physically adult wife to grow up all over again? And the Miles O'Brien we knew is an honorable man who would never take advantage of a child - even if the child wanted it. To him, it just wouldn't be the right thing to do. Period. Therefore, he was uncomfortable.

If TNG had been on one of the cable channels where the standards are more relaxed, they could have gone further into this issue with a line or two of dialogue. The regular network standards wouldn't have allowed that, so the audience is left to extrapolate for themselves that Miles was indeed feeling uncomfortable at physically interacting as a husband with a female who was physically a child.