Spoilers The Dr. Agnes Jurati Thread

[Llywela]

For the record (sense there are a couple of different things being argued back and forth here)
- I have no problem with the idea that implanting the vision in her drove her batshit insane and compelled her to murder in the pursuit and belief that what she was doing was right.
It's the same vision we are told and shown drove others to smash rocks into their heads, tear their faces off, blow their own brains out, and left others permanently damaged and psychotic. It tells me it was something inescapable. It's consistent with the vision, and how it left them all damaged, to self destructive.
So why not her?
I only have a problem (in that I think it's absurd) how she simply then walked it and the murder off While the supposed madness wrecked others.
She can't just be ok after. It's laughably inconsistent.

The inconsistency isn't an accident or a flaw in the writing, it was done deliberately. We are shown that the vision affects everyone slightly differently, because they are all individuals - look at Narissa's reaction compared with her aunt, the one rendered left insane to the tune of destroying a Borg cube while the other remained functional, her reaction to the vision focused inward and channelled into purpose. Why is it so hard to believe that while the vision damages everyone, that damage manifests in different ways for each individual? If Oh and Narissa were able to recover enough to function highly effectively as undercover agents, why shouldn't Jurati also recover control of herself after the horror of being driven to murder? In the universe of Star Trek, I have no trouble believing that she was compelled to commit that murder due to the effect of the mind meld, but then the shock of committing that act was enough to shake her out of it afterward - it is no less believable than anything else that has ever happened in this franchise!

 

[Swedish Borg]

For the record (sense there are a couple of different things being argued back and forth here)
- I have no problem with the idea that implanting the vision in her drove her batshit insane and compelled her to murder in the pursuit and belief that what she was doing was right.
It's the same vision we are told and shown drove others to smash rocks into their heads, tear their faces off, blow their own brains out, and left others permanently damaged and psychotic. It tells me it was something inescapable. It's consistent with the vision, and how it left them all damaged, to self destructive.
So why not her?
I only have a problem (in that I think it's absurd) how she simply then walked it and the murder off While the supposed madness wrecked others.
She can't just be ok after. It's laughably inconsistent.

Well, it's along the same lines as Picard getting over his many years old PTSD in First Contact in a matter of minutes after Lily called him a sob. You know it's called tough love therapy ("Get over yourself you stupid sob you!!!!!") It works marvels!

 

[Mondragon]

If when she had the opportunity to Kill Maddux some thing "triggered" in her to go batshit crazy and Kill him without remorse then I would agree. But they made it look like she had control and volition. What she did was calculated and timed. That is not insane behavior. She "felt the need" rather than having an uncontrollable urge to kill. They made look like she was complicit. Doesn't make sense to me at all.

Agree that adds even more to the inconsistency, the methodicalness and intent to cover up, indicates someone rationalizing, they want this to look a certain way, to survive this after the fact. Any insanity plea falls apart, At the same time we're being shown this is all consuming there is no coming back from it.
That the writers then imagine her moved on, having sex, wile the corpse of someone she supposedly cared about is likely next door, doesn't suddenly make her more genial or sympathetic, it's just more horrible inconsistent and now creepy story telling.

I mean I get, and do like that this is a somewhat unlikable and really damaged crew, who find each-other, and realize that if (Picard) and they can put the pieces back together and function as a crew, despite all that, the "ideal" survives. I like all that, and the new position it puts Picard in.
Especially juxtaposed to his original crew, who functioned like a well oiled machine.

This character however (not the actress, I like her) really fell apart for me here though, and became completely unlikable and unsympathetic. Which is fine, except the writers (and apologist) quickly want to move her into the- look she's cute, quirky and lovable now trope. And no, they didn't deliver. She's just horrible and creepy.

 

[fireproof78]

Except that's not the impression I got when she killed Maddox. It didn't feel like an uncontrolabe itch. To me it looked like she "had no choice" to kill him based on what she was shown would happen in the future in that mind meld. If they made it evident she had no control to seek mental help, seek another way to stop Maddux or made it clear she would be totally mind frigged in her dreams or awake if she even tried to resist etc, then I would buy it.

Well, to each their own. I don't have a better way to describe it in my mind. I just know that not everything will feel perfectly methodical or logical but people can still fight against more psychotic impulses until one apparent event that makes it unbearable.

But, that's me.

 

[Swedish Borg]

Also why not just kill Maddux on sight if she was tormented and insane?. She was driven insane to Kill Maddox but that insanity was tempered just a bit to allow herself to try to cover it up?

Yeah, she was insane enough to want to kill Maddox but not enough to risk being caught and having to answer for her crime. That's an odd kind of insane.

 

[fireproof78]

People who are insane still operate by their own, often skewed, logic. It is often internal, and not anchored in reality experienced by other people, but that doesn't mean they just act incoherent without rhyme or reason. That's why I find Jurati being closer to experiencing a type of psychotic break, where in the internal logic eventually has to give way and be acted upon due to the visions given. And obviously she wouldn't want to risk being caught-that's Zhat Vash's MO for a long time.

 

[trekfan_1]

People who are insane still operate by their own, often skewed, logic. It is often internal, and not anchored in reality experienced by other people, but that doesn't mean they just act incoherent without rhyme or reason. That's why I find Jurati being closer to experiencing a type of psychotic break, where in the internal logic eventually has to give way and be acted upon due to the visions given. And obviously she wouldn't want to risk being caught-that's Zhat Vash's MO for a long time.

IMO the writers should of done a better job conveying that if that was the intent. I didn't get that impression at all.

 

[fireproof78]

IMO the writers should of done a better job conveying that if that was the intent. I didn't get that impression at all.

Of course it could have been better.

 

[Swedish Borg]

I am pretty sure that if Jurati shows up in Season 2 all that gruesome murder thing will be gone and forgotten and likely never mentioned.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

I am pretty sure that if Jurati shows up in Season 2 all that gruesome murder thing will be gone and forgotten and likely never mentioned.

Q will snap his fingers and Maddox will come back to life... played by Brian Brophy!

 

[Mondragon]

I am pretty sure that if Jurati shows up in Season 2 all that gruesome murder thing will be gone and forgotten and likely never mentioned.

"Season 2 all that gruesome murder thing will be gone and forgotten" ?
Thought they already quickly did that, Season 1?.

Moving on, while the corpse lies next door... adorable!

"gone, and forgotten! Look how quirky and cute ...
Murder? What murder?

It's already a non issue.
One big creepy ...happy..!

On to the next adventure!

 

[Rhodie33]

Also why not just kill Maddux on sight if she was tormented and insane?. She was driven insane to Kill Maddox but that insanity was tempered just a bit to allow herself to try to cover it up?

Also Jurati so very quickly and easily got over the Admonition effects in regard of Soji. Jurati should have lied about wanting to kill Soji, then tried to kill the threat to all organic life (The Destroyer) if Jurati really had been driven insane or controlled by Oh. No. Jurati murdered Maddox and needs to face legal consequences.

 

[Swedish Borg]

Jurati found out that Maddox was having an affair with one of the androids The admonition was just a cover-up.

 

[Mondragon]

First look S2 Agnes

 

[GMDreia]

For what it's worth... I felt The Last Best Hope (Una McCormack) shed a lot of light on Jurati's relationship with Maddox, her psychology, his psychology, but especially, on the motivation for killing him... it doesn't shy away from how messed up the dynamic of their relationship was, or the flaws in each of these very broken people.

 

[dupersuper]

First look S2 Agnes

Well, she still...has a face? Is wearing a top? Is able to move her neck slightly?

 

[Mondragon]

Well, she still...has a face? Is wearing a top? Is able to move her neck slightly?

Yeah but we don't know if she still has feet!
LOL I did it for the other characters too, I didn't want the Jurati thread left out, it's not my fault the others S2 first reveals were actually interesting.
Not sure what they are trying to highlight, she does still look creepily suspicious though.
Maybe she murdered somebody else! And she's looking for some more of that cake and Rios

 

[Jack Wolfe]

Well, she still...has a face? Is wearing a top? Is able to move her neck slightly?

I find it more annoying that she's there at all. I found Jurati to be the least interesting character in the show, trailing even Picard's dog.

 

[fireproof78]

Prefer Agnes over Raffi. But neither are ones I really want to see more of. Rather Elnor and Picard get more screen time.

 

[WarpTenLizard]

I don't hate her, but she does feel like they don't know what they want to do with her. Much of her character also comes off as discount-Tilly. I love Tilly on STD, but that personality fits Tilly's young, green ensign character. Juratti is supposed to be an experienced doctor, so when she does that type of "quirky," it just feels forced. Honestly, if they need another shock-value death, I'd rather they use her, than someone I care about.