The Confederation Timeline (Bizarro World)

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

I have some questions about bizarro world, the Confederation timeline. Buckle your shuttlecraft seatbelts.

#1 If the point of divergence is 2024; why do Picard, Raffi, Seven, Rios, Elnor, Juratti, or anyone else for that matter continue to exist in the alternate timeline? Wouldn't nearly 400 years of different genealogy mean that no one in the proper timeline will have a bizarro world counterpart?
#2 Why do the same starship designs exist in the bizarro world?
#3 Picard's evil Galax-class-looking Borg layer ship is awesome, but why does it mirror prime's Galaxy-class? It should be something entirely new.
#4 Is "this" Borg Queen effectively the same as the prime Queen up until the mid to late 24th century when making 1st contact with the Confederation?
#5 Do you think Juratti had that much influence over the Queen? I think the destruction of her entire collective, knowing her collective is in shambles but not "complete" destroyed in the prime timeline had impacted her heavily already. I like to think Juratti just "pushed" her off the cliff into that eyeroll of, "Fine, we'll try it your way, see what happens" kind of territory. What do you guys think?
#6 By the end of S2: all that's left of bizarro world is Juratti-Queen and the La Sirena, likely now the center of Borg whatever-we're-calling-it ship. Yes? No?
#7 What happened to the bodies in the walls of Picard's house when they moved back in? No questions, just make it go away?
#8 How did Seven and Raffi get back to the La Sirena with like 100 Borgified soldiers heavilly armed with guns and lots of ammo?
#9 How did Picard not just die immediately upon the hit-and-run? I want to be that spry mid-90's.
#10 Does this mean that Q was already old and near death when he first ran into the Enterprise-D in TNG's first episode? Has the Picard-crush just been Q screwing around before he kabooms?
#11 Do you think all Q were on their way our or just Picard's Q?

I have more questions, but this is enough for now. Have fun, Trekkies.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

1. Q did it.
2. Because Starfleet ships have always been exclusively designed by humans with zero input by other Federation races. Or Q did it.
3. Because Q did it.
4. The Queen is probably basically the same, yeah.
5. I dunno, but I do think being so isolated left her unusually open to suggestion.
6. Depends on whether the characters got their original bodies back.
7. The heroes cleaned up to keep the timeline intact.
8. Plot armour.
9. He's a robot.
10. We have no way of knowing how long it's been for Q, as he can time travel effortlessly.
11. If the Qs had been dying off then it would explain why his son wasn't involved at all.

 

[fireproof78]

Do you think all Q were on their way our or just Picard's Q?

Just Picard's Q.

the point of divergence is 2024; why do Picard, Raffi, Seven, Rios, Elnor, Juratti, or anyone else for that matter continue to exist in the alternate timeline? Wouldn't nearly 400 years of different genealogy mean that no one in the proper timeline will have a bizarro world counterpart?

Not in Star Trek. It's a Q morality play.

 

[Tuskin38]

#1 If the point of divergence is 2024; why do Picard, Raffi, Seven, Rios, Elnor, Juratti, or anyone else for that matter continue to exist in the alternate timeline? Wouldn't nearly 400 years of different genealogy mean that no one in the proper timeline will have a bizarro world counterpart?

The same reason most of the main characters of TOS, DS9 and DSC also exist in the Mirror Universe despite being different even back in Shakespeare's time.
Because the plot requires it.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

The same reason most of the main characters of TOS, DS9 and DSC also exist in the Mirror Universe despite being different even back in Shakespeare's time.
Because the plot requires it.

I can roll with the MU, because it's mostly been tongue-in-cheek campy, and characters have acknowledged that nothing in the MU makes any sense. In PIC S2, an astronaut not going into space radically rewrites the entire future, but... everyone just "exists" anyway. Makes no sense.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I have some questions about bizarro world, the Confederation timeline. Buckle your shuttlecraft seatbelts.

#1 If the point of divergence is 2024; why do Picard, Raffi, Seven, Rios, Elnor, Juratti, or anyone else for that matter continue to exist in the alternate timeline? Wouldn't nearly 400 years of different genealogy mean that no one in the proper timeline will have a bizarro world counterpart?

In an infinite multiverse, literally anything is possible.

The Confederation timeline - with all of those characters intact - is no more OR LESS likely than any other.

Besides, if they didn't exist, we wouldn't have a show, would we?

 

[fireproof78]

I can roll with the MU, because it's mostly been tongue-in-cheek campy, and characters have acknowledged that nothing in the MU makes any sense. In PIC S2, an astronaut not going into space radically rewrites the entire future, but... everyone just "exists" anyway. Makes no sense.

That's how Trek other worlds work. Look at "Yesterday's Enterprise" as an example. Same ship, same crew, just more military minded.

So, Confederation timeline has precedence in Trek lore.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

In an infinite multiverse, literally anything is possible.

The Confederation timeline - with all of those characters intact - is no more OR LESS likely than any other.

Besides, if they didn't exist, we wouldn't have a show, would we?

Season 2 isn't one of many worlds in a multiverse, it's Prime-verse rewritten into an alternate timeline. It's why Picard and friends had to go back in time. They even talked about this in the 2nd episode.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

That's how Trek other worlds work. Look at "Yesterday's Enterprise" as an example. Same ship, same crew, just more military minded.

So, Confederation timeline has precedence in Trek lore.

"Yesterday's Enterprise" had the timeline changed only 22 years back, not several centuries. All of the TNG characters already existed. It made sense Yar wasn't dead and Worf was either dead or simply somewhere else. I'm also glad they didn't camp it up and have Worf be the captain of the lead Bird of Prey. It was plausible they still ended up on the Ent-D minus Troi and Worf, but under different circumstances.

 

[fireproof78]

"Yesterday's Enterprise" had the timeline changed only 22 years back, not several centuries. All of the TNG characters already existed. It made sense Yar wasn't dead and Worf was either dead or simply somewhere else. I'm also glad they didn't camp it up and have Worf be the captain of the lead Bird of Prey. It was plausible they still ended up on the Ent-D minus Troi and Worf, but under different circumstances.

And the MU?

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

And the MU?

MU is a parallel universe. The alternate timelines of "Yesterday's Enterprise" and Picard S2 are not.
It's why I am fine with the MU being wacked out and nitpick PIC S2.

 

[fireproof78]

MU is a parallel universe. The alternate timelines of "Yesterday's Enterprise" and Picard S2 are not.
It's why I am fine with the MU being wacked out and nitpick PIC S2.

The distinction makes no sense to me. We have the same characters showing up despite wildly divergent timelines. You have identical design language across the board. I would expect greater divergence in the MU.

Also Season 2 is literally a wizard did it.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

"A wizard did it" is really the only way to explain how all the same people could exist in a radically different future. Fortunately a wizard did do it, so it works.

The Mirror Universe is something different, and very strange. The way the first breach was two identical Enterprises in the same place at the same time on the same mission with the same crew using the transporter at the exact same moment makes me think it's the similarities that tied the universes so close together at that point in time.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

The distinction makes no sense to me. We have the same characters showing up despite wildly divergent timelines. You have identical design language across the board. I would expect greater divergence in the MU.

Also Season 2 is literally a wizard did it.

I have already addressed this. Characters have acknowledged in-universe that the MU doesn't make sense. It's just one of those things where people have counterparts on the other side because, and I can buy that, because this is a trope often used in parallel universe stories. However, an alternate timeline is not a parallel universe, it's an alternate timeline, and story telling rules are very different. If the pasted had only been changed relatively recently, no objections. However, when you change the past in 2024, no one in 2401 should have a counterpart in the alternate timeline except the Borg Queen as she was already alive in 2024.

No, S2 is not "a wizard did it," this isn't Lord of the Rings. The point of divergence is Picard's ancestor going vs. not going on the space mission. Why doesn't matter regarding whether Picard and friends would have counterparts in 2401 bizarro world.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

"A wizard did it" is really the only way to explain how all the same people could exist in a radically different future. Fortunately a wizard did do it, so it works.

The Mirror Universe is something different, and very strange. The way the first breach was two identical Enterprises in the same place at the same time on the same mission with the same crew using the transporter at the exact same moment makes me think it's the similarities that tied the universes so close together at that point in time.

But that's not what happened. Q did two things. #1 He stopped Picard's ancestor from going on the space mission. #2 He shielded Picard and his new S1 friends from having "forgotten" prime world. I believe that includes: Picard, Raffi, Seven, Elnor Rios, and Juratti.

If we're deducing all of this to "a space wizard did it," why have an alternate timeline at all? Either the past was changed, and they have to fix it, or they're in a parallel world and time travel isn't relevant.

I'm trying to point out bad writing. "A wizard did it" is bad writing.

 

[fireproof78]

I have already addressed this. Characters have acknowledged in-universe that the MU doesn't make sense. It's just one of those things where people have counterparts on the other side because, and I can buy that, because this is a trope often used in parallel universe stories. However, an alternate timeline is not a parallel universe, it's an alternate timeline, and story telling rules are very different. If the pasted had only been changed relatively recently, no objections. However, when you change the past in 2024, no one in 2401 should have a counterpart in the alternate timeline except the Borg Queen as she was already alive in 2024.

No, S2 is not "a wizard did it," this isn't Lord of the Rings. The point of divergence is Picard's ancestor going vs. not going on the space mission. Why doesn't matter regarding whether Picard and friends would have counterparts in 2401 bizarro world.

I don't understand how the rules are different. It's still because they said so.

And, yes, it is a Wizard did it. A wizard named Q.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm trying to point out bad writing. "A wizard did it" is bad writing.

Par for the course in this Season. Doesn't change why we literally see Q style tropes of people being in the same positions, like Tapestry. Picard still gets on the Enterprise but the rest is the same.

 

[Dukhat]

The events that supposedly created the Confederation timeline really don't make a whole lot of sense. Because Renee Picard doesn't go on a spaceflight to Europa in 2024, Earth suddenly decides to hate all aliens and use Adam Soong as their poster boy for their hatred, even though Adam Soong never actually met any aliens? (Or at least anyone that he knew was an alien.)

How would humanity even be able to advance technologically into what we see in the Confederacy timeline without the formation of the Federation?

Since Q was actively part of trying to prevent Renee from her spaceflight, the only way this would make any sense is if Q himself was responsible for the creation of the Confederacy timeline (despite its very existence not making any sense), and that all Picard and Co. were doing was indulging in Q's fantasy, and not actually doing anything to change a timeline that was incorrect. So the Confederacy was just a Q-induced fantasy, and basically Jurati got turned into a Borg and Rios stayed behind and got killed in a barfight because of that.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

The events that supposedly created the Confederation timeline really don't make a whole lot of sense. Because Renee Picard doesn't go on a spaceflight to Europa in 2024, Earth suddenly decides to hate all aliens and use Adam Soong as their poster boy for their hatred, even though Adam Soong never actually met any aliens? (Or at least anyone that he knew was an alien.)

How would humanity even be able to advance technologically into what we see in the Confederacy timeline without the formation of the Federation?

Since Q was actively part of trying to prevent Renee from her spaceflight, the only way this would make any sense is if Q himself was responsible for the creation of the Confederacy timeline (despite its very existence not making any sense), and that all Picard and Co. were doing was indulging in Q's fantasy, and not actually doing anything to change a timeline that was incorrect. So the Confederacy was just a Q-induced fantasy, and basically Jurati got turned into a Borg and Rios stayed behind and got killed in a barfight because of that.

Season 2 is a bit messy. I feel like we needed two full episodes in the Confederation future, save the time travel for the 4th episode. This would have allowed Picard and friends to figure out how the timeline got so messed up and what they needed to do to fix it.

 

[Nerys Myk]

#1 If the point of divergence is 2024; why do Picard, Raffi, Seven, Rios, Elnor, Juratti, or anyone else for that matter continue to exist in the alternate timeline? Wouldn't nearly 400 years of different genealogy mean that no one in the proper timeline will have a bizarro world counterpart?

Because those actors are on the payroll. Star Trek does this all of the time, starting with the Mirror Universe.

Oh, and Star Trek makes less sense that you think.