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Tech Issues In The New Movie

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Annoying people who annoy you can be so addicting. Especially when they annoy so very easily and consistantly.

Now as for the topic, I wouldn't put Star Trek on the level of parody, but it does have a certain Micheal Bay Action Science aspect which makes it more marketable and generic. It doesn't really bother me, but I can see where some of the fans are coming from.
 
The new movie reminds me of McDonald's...

Billions of people go to McDonald's every year, I go to McDonald's a lot (more than I really should). But if I was asked to list my favorite restaurants, McDonald's wouldn't make the list. I, like most people, don't go to McDonald's for fine dining... but I still go to McDonald's.

Trek Tech is very much like discussing the finer culinary aspects of food. We nit-pick nuances, argue recipes and even presentation/arrangements.

I'm sure that their are people out there who would argue that McDonald's and their menu offerings have every right to be discussed in such a setting, but having seen some of the food forums my wife frequents, I doubt it would be a popular subject.

... and I like McDonald's (and the new movie), I just don't think we should dwell on it the same way we might dwell on other dishes. But I bet there is a McDonald's forum for people who want to discuss just how inspired a Big Mac is and want to figure out what the secret sauce is made of. More power to them. :techman:
 
Seriously, are we just going to have to outright ban ALL movie threads here?

I sincerely hope it doesn't reach that point, personally. :p I've seen plenty of discussions in here get passionate (and not in a sexual way :D) without the conversation falling apart. And that's the sort of good discussion I prefer to have.

I might suggest the idea of a McDonald's forum though... :biggrin:
 
Here is the thing I don't get about the bridge. Didn't a bunch of naval experts come to the TOS set and see the layout in an effort to better improve the command center of naval vessels? If that is the case, it shows that, in a real world sort of way, the TOS bridge worked. It was functional and made sense.

While I enjoyed the movie for what it was (a fun popcorn romp), I really had problems with the sets as TOS sets. Maybe another sci-fi flick, but not TOS. I had a hard time figuring out where everyone sat except for Sulu, Checkov and the captain. I can't say the same for communications, sciences, engineering, etc.

Plus, the screens behind the conn blocked any line of sight between the captain and his officers. TOS, on the other hand, kept the bridge clear of unnecessary fluff. You can argue that the budget didn't allow for it, but the designers were almost all WWII veterans. I am pretty sure that they took that experience into account when designing the bridge.

Just my thoughts. YMMV.
 
^ That is a very logical statement to make. I seem to recall that naval planners did review the TOS Bridge design, though I cannot cite and sources for that information.
 
Dial it back now. Next comment I see that looks like a flame or troll will be warned appropriately.

Just because someone posts something that they don't like when you do doesn't make it a trolling post. They're entitled to that opinion...

however

Feeling the need to pop in every single time someone doesn't like the movie to personally attack them? I'm thinking that that qualifies.

Seriously, are we just going to have to outright ban ALL movie threads here?

Okay, fine, but it actually pisses me off a bit too. I would like to talk the tech in the tech forums, oddly enough, but I find I usually can't because there's not a thread some of you don't go to where you won't ruin it with an endless bitch session.

So I'm asking you lot, please, knock it the hell off, as a fellow tech fan.

Seriously, are we just going to have to outright ban ALL movie threads here?

I sincerely hope it doesn't reach that point, personally. :p I've seen plenty of discussions in here get passionate (and not in a sexual way :D) without the conversation falling apart. And that's the sort of good discussion I prefer to have.

I might suggest the idea of a McDonald's forum though... :biggrin:



i'm very vocal that i didnt like the movie, but i have nothing against people who DO like it. i do however avoid posting in the pro-XI threads, but it feels to me like the pro-XI fanbase enjoys jumping into any thread with/by "haters" and crucifying them/us. i guess thats the point though, but it just makes the temperature of the "flame content" rise much higher than normal at a much faster pace.
 
^ That is a very logical statement to make. I seem to recall that naval planners did review the TOS Bridge design, though I cannot cite and sources for that information.

even moreso than that, it was either Mr Jefferies or Roddenberry himself, but they were so impressed, that one of them was called into the Navy as a consultant for revising their design process for CnC centers as a whole.

I cant remember the source for this either
 
The secret sauce? Thousand Island dressing and mayo.

I rather like the restaurant analogy, and I'd like to carry it a bit further.

Y'see, Star Trek has often been referred to as "the McDonald's of science fiction", but I now think that's a bit of an error. Star Trek would be better described as the Denny's or IHOP of science fiction. Not high end fare by any stretch, but depending on who's manning the kitchen, some pretty decent eats.

What JJ has done is take our familiar neighborhood eatery and turned it into a fast food joint. Or, maybe a bit more accurately, since we are taking about "THE FRANCHISE", opened up a fast food joint, offering up a pretty uninspired menu, and given it the same name as our place. Some folks don't mind the new place, some don't. If it was left at that, there probably wouldn't be as many fights.

Where the conflict comes in is when the enthusiasts of the new place try to tell us that "This is what the old place should have been!" or "It's just as good" or "It's better!"

It's newer, flashier, but it has none of the charm of the old place, and those areas where it is like the old joint, it's clear that it's simple imitation, with no thought as to why those aspects were there in the first place.

It's all sizzle, no steak.
 
its also that the first two film franchises were actually based on something, they had a fanbase already loyal to them. the newest version is simply "this is trek, like it or not." to me, that was a slap in the face to begin with.
 
I expect that a two more movies will be made starting from the last one left off. Can they generate the same sales on the other two from us and the non Trek fan? Historically that is difficult.
If we are fortunate, they will eventually ignore the universe and maybe go back to the Prime one or try a different one.
 
I don't think they'll get the same number of ticket sales (they might get the same dollar amount, but mainly due to inflation, not units sold). Just look back at some posts from folks who went in with loads of enthusiasm and came out only to join the naysayer side. So we're not talking about the same size audience that's waiting for the next installment, it's already smaller, and only going to shrink further as the newness wears off and it becomes more and more apparent that it's really not that good.

Playmates has already suspended the line of toys based on this turkey. That's not exactly a good indicator of a dedicated fanbase, particularly since it's the hardcore fans who buy most of the collectible stuff, like toys.

So, how much of an audience will they have left when they finally get around to making the thing?
 
And these criticisms are valid, as long as they're just observations. I liked the movie myself, but I'm the sort of person who's picky and tends to wait till I can see the finished product to pass judgment. There are some things I'd have done differently from a design and writing standpoint, but I personally think JJ could have done far worse.

My preference for the forum is simply to keep things on track. General movie discussion should really go in that forum, and if people really annoy you then I'd say just put them on Ignore. I wouldn't even go in TNZ without my mental stupidity blockers turned all the way up. :D
 
Valid criticisms or not, these are not TECH criticisms and are better off being routed to a different thread. Having them just pop up in the point of a conversation is one thing... but after a particular poster exhibits a pattern of invariably volunteering his unsolicited opinion vis a vis "this tech issue is the reason STXI sucked" you eventually have to wonder about that poster's intent.

As it stands, the problem is limited to an extremely vocal minority anyway, so I'm forced to use this forum's ignore feature for the first time in like three years.
 
^ In which case, there is exactly zero reason to derail threads into discussions about how much you think STXI sucked. But if you are unwilling or unable to refrain from spamming these threads with that same tired line, you can simply join the other trolls in my ignore list.
 
Is this another flame bait thread?

I have to tell you that this newest movie did not change my opinion in the slightest about "classic" TOS TREK. TOS was a pioneer in dramatic science fiction television, and the fact that the industry saw fit to spin off a cartoon from it, six major feature films from it, and four other TV shows from it, should be indisputable testimonial of the remarkable accomplishment that this ground-breaking franchise is to this day. Of course, all TREK is not pure sci fi. There were elements of conventional drama and fantasy mixed in, and it was all built on an action-adventure backdrop.

The new TREK, or JJTREK, or whatever you want to call it, is first and foremost a flashy action-adventure flick that only passingly resembles the hourlong dramas of TOS. It looks like a video game, so it is a propos for its target audience: Generation Y, the Britney Spears generation. It's not really about sci fi either, in fact the franchise has proven itself over the last 25+ years to be an exercise in concept erosion. Where TOS was targeted at Vietnam War era Baby Boomers in a time of great national and world upheaval, the movies and TNG were targeted more to Gen X and had less of a sense of direction or history. It was sad, but the concept erosion started back then. By DS9, TREK was doing something that Roddenberry clearly would've objected to: making TREK into a war show. Granted, DS9 wasn't RAT PATROL or M*A*S*H in outer space, but its anti-septic, cloak-and-dagger concept of warfare seem to underscore how little the show's makers knew or understood about war. People like Berman would obviously be quick to point out that Vietnam was a long time ago, and Gen X wouldn't understand. The truth is, Berman didn't understand... or care...

It is a matter of record that Berman disparaged TOS as 60's kitsch. Once dismissing it as a "Kennedy camelot". (CINEFANTASTIQUE magazine, early 1990's) And therein lies the rub: the real issue here is that Berman was a studio executive who had TNG handed to him. He never had to create anything. He simply took over a spin-off series in a billion-dollar franchise. He and his minions on TNG and DS9 simply superimposed their own notions and politics over their work, effectively causing the franchise to change significantly. It was still a kind of watered-down mix of drama and sci fi, and it still had some appeal to the Baby Boomers, but it was increasingly about the post-Cold War state-of-mind of Gen X. Troi's appearance as the cat-suited busty eye-candy-on-the-Bridge did not lie; the tradition started with Sirtis was no accident. We're talking here about a show that made its debut just a few years after hardcore pornography-on-video permeated American households everywhere through those new gadgets called VCR's and DVD players. This trend continued all the way through ENT, and by that time it was painfully obvious to the by-now "older" TOS and even TNG fans what had happened.

There really doesn't seem to be that much of a leap, conceptually speaking, from ENT to the funky-looking JJprise. Looks to me like the Bermanian evolution of TREK is now complete. He set out to repudiate the original, and now he got his wish. JJTREK is a perfect reflection of its target demographic, many of whom were born either in the waning days of the Cold War or after the Berlin Wall fell. They grew up in a world where Neil Armstrong is just some name in a history book, the Soviet Union is just another fallen dictatorship, and the notion of a Prime Directive has taken a back seat to politicians talking out of both sides of their mouths about "nation building". Isn't it more fun to go out and get a body piercing, have a few beers, and piss off the balcony when nobody's looking? :rommie:

The bottom line is this: if you're a fan of TOS, and all its lore, then JJTREK isn't for you and it isn't even relevant for that matter. JJ & Co. are just the latest incarnation of what Berman and Co. set out to do over 20 years ago. Tracy Torme, a writer for TNG during its first year, said it best when he mused that maybe the audience will look at TNG and TOS and think "the Beatles was just Paul McCartney's band before Wings" to which he added "I kind of doubt it".

So, why get all excited about this?






I'm sorry, I have to disagree with EVERYTHING this guy has just said. I was born in 83', so I was started on TNG. I was seven when I first watched it...I remember thinking the nacelles were rockets and the saucer was like 4 or 5 rooms. Ahh the early years.

Then, I watched TOS over the course of a summer. I liked it, though the special effects were cheesy.

So far as it being the beacon of all things star trek, it pretty much is. It started it all with a big ol bang and that bang has continued to open up the trekverse into our universe.

But as for it being super about the messages and social commentary over the later series? No. Star Trek TNG has made several social statements about sexuality, laws in different countries, social injustice, abortion, etc etc. DS9 made commentary on assasanation, the point of war, the pain of not fitting in, a kid living without his mother, etc. Voyager made commentary about prisoner treatment and capitol punishment, health care, being treated with respect and having the same rights, children growing up, genocide even.

As for the whole sex for ratings thing. HELLO YEOMAN RAND? And wasn't Captain Kirk kind of a slut? He slept with ANYTHING that walked and could carry a child. Yes Deanna Troi was the va va voom of TNG, as was Leeta of DS9, even Jadzia could've fit that role, and Seven of Voyager, T'pol of Enterprise. They've been doing that since the dawn of, and last time I checked Picard wasn't a skirt chaser, and neither were the rest of them either except for maybe Archer. So the modern series are actually a little better about it.

As for the whole war thing. HELLO the Klingons were involved in a cold war with the Federation in Kirks time, they had just been through a massive Romulan war barely a century ago. So clearly Roddenberry knew war was an evil that's needed. So the Dominion war happened...just cause we saw one of their wars play out full on doesn't mean it wasn't a part of Gene's vision.


So as you can see they aren't all that much better than TOS. I'd say TOS is the beacon that started it all, but the later shows did a more responsible and better job of telling the moralistic stories they did.
 
^ In which case, there is exactly zero reason to derail threads into discussions about how much you think STXI sucked. But if you are unwilling or unable to refrain from spamming these threads with that same tired line, you can simply join the other trolls in my ignore list.

who's derailing anything? his first post in creating the thread was pretty clear how he felt about the film sucking...
 
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