Spoilers Tales of The Empire -- AKA: TotJ Season 2 [Spoiler Discussion]
- Thread starter Reverend
- Start date
It's Grievous, not Grevious.
Yeah, I thought it was pretty weird when she was called a murderer and denied it. LET'S GO TO THE TAPE.
While it is always good to see Thrawn again, I ultimately found the Morgan episodes rather lacking. "The Path of Fear" was a strong start for her and I loved meeting the Mountain Clan (who I don't think we've ever seen before but perhaps were mentioned previously?). However, once the story shifted to Corvus, I lost interest. Like I said, I loved seeing Thrawn again, even for just a single scene. I think it didn't help that we've already seen Morgan's ultimate path, so aside from seeing how she first met Thrawn and became his acolyte, it didn't seem to matter. And yet, I found myself wanting to learn more about her time immediately after surviving the massacre on Dathomir and how she slowly gained power as a magistrate. I think the better arc here would've been the second episode filling in that gap and the third concluding with meeting Thrawn.
But now for the real meat of the season: Barriss!
We've waited a long time (I'm a late viewer, so I know y'all waited far longer than I did!) to see more of her story and these three episodes did not disappoint. I love how not only was this the story about Barriss' turn to the light, but Fourth Sister's as well, which I did not expect until the very end. I am deeply relieved (but not at all surprised) that Barriss turned away from the Inquisitors pretty quickly and I loved how her journey reflected the Grand Inquisitor and then echoed to Fourth Sister.
With such a huge time jump between "Realization" and "The Way Out," I need an ongoing series about Barriss, how she became a healer for those on the run, how she met the Traveler (I'm guessing Quinlan Vos?), and most importantly, how she reencountered her old friend, Ahsoka (edit: Also possibly Ventress, too!). I need that show more than anything else from this franchise outside the second season of Ahsoka itself.
Lastly, I also need to know the name of the little snow critter in "The Way Out." Star Wars is so damn good at creating adorable little critters.
But now for the real meat of the season: Barriss!
We've waited a long time (I'm a late viewer, so I know y'all waited far longer than I did!) to see more of her story and these three episodes did not disappoint. I love how not only was this the story about Barriss' turn to the light, but Fourth Sister's as well, which I did not expect until the very end. I am deeply relieved (but not at all surprised) that Barriss turned away from the Inquisitors pretty quickly and I loved how her journey reflected the Grand Inquisitor and then echoed to Fourth Sister.
With such a huge time jump between "Realization" and "The Way Out," I need an ongoing series about Barriss, how she became a healer for those on the run, how she met the Traveler (I'm guessing Quinlan Vos?), and most importantly, how she reencountered her old friend, Ahsoka (edit: Also possibly Ventress, too!). I need that show more than anything else from this franchise outside the second season of Ahsoka itself.
Lastly, I also need to know the name of the little snow critter in "The Way Out." Star Wars is so damn good at creating adorable little critters.
Ohhhh...duh. Nice catch!
I noticed and loved that as well.
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Finally found the time to sort through and proofread my notes (though I'm sure I've missed something and will have to edit this post half a dozen times, as usual.) I've grouped each episode's notes in spoiler tags simply for ease of scrolling, since it's quite a wall of text otherwise: -
The Path of Fear
The Path of Anger
The Path of Hate
Devoted
Realization
The Way Out
The Path of Fear
- New mask logos: Bo-Katan, an RA-7 droid, young Ezra‘s cadet helmet, the TotJ Inquisitor’s mask, Chopper, Crosshair, Grievous, BX Commando Droid, and Phase 1 Clonetrooper helmet.
- They finally get some use out of the new Grievous asset. Still wild that they made this thing for TCW’s final season and only featured it in the opening montage (and I think the Bad Batch’s premiere too?)
- A witch wielding sickles. Witchsickles!?
- The Nightsisters seen here seem to be a mix of both “normal“ humans, and the more familiar alabaster skinned Dathmiri. I’m assuming that’s to account for Morgan‘s appearance, presumably the nightsisters took in some outsiders at some point in the past, or the pale skin ones are the ones with Zabrak ancestry? That whole mess still leaves me scratching my head.
- I’m assuming that’s Diana Lee in Santo, playing Morgan’s mother. (Checked credits, it is!)
- Nice to get an expanded look at the attack on Dathomir. It’s probably safe to assume that most of the battles we’ve seen before in animated form were, in truth, much bigger than the limited production budget allows them to show.
- Not sure how these Nightsister spell tattoos are supposed to work, given Ventress’s tattoos didn’t fade after the clan’s extermination. Mind you she didn’t have hers as a baby when she left the clan, nor does she have them which is a paddle on trying to be a Jedi. Caps those are just normal tattoos she got after her master was killed, to mimic what she remembers of her peoples markings? On the other hand, Mirons didn’t fade either. So perhaps it’s because Morgan isn’t a natural death Mary?
- The Mountain Clan all appear to be human as well. But like the Nightsister Clan, I also don’t have any males with them. Do they also have a village of males on the other side of the planet just like the Nightbrothers? This planet is so weird.
- I’m a little surprised at how long the droids are sticking around. One had the impression they just slaughtered everyone and left. I suppose it's only been a few days, and Grevious just left those two gunships and their droids behind to clean up any stragglers from the valley?
- So light witch powers involve teleportation and an EMP blast? I mean I assume that’s the lightside she’s using. Blue means “light”, right?
- Mere days after we see both Venators and an ISD side-by-side for the first time on ‘The Bad Batch’, now we get it again! It’s like they planned these things out in advance.
- Timeline wise; this has to be about 9 years after Order 66, given Thrawn’s rank. So I’m pretty sure this also makes the latest time we’ve seen Venators still in Imperial service.
- So Morgan is the one who designed the TIE Defenders! That suddenly makes her much more connected to ‘Rebels’ than we previously known. It also makes sense that Thrawn wasn’t the one who designed it, he’s a tactician, not an engineer. This also fits in perfectly with Lothal being the mass production site, given Thrawn’s connection to Lothal via Governor Pryce. I wouldn’t be shocked at this point if she was also behind both the V1 & X1 Advanced TIEs, since the former was made on Lothal too. Indeed, she did have a copy of the Inquisitorious’s intel database and had an undead Inquisitor at her service in ‘Ahsoka’, so there’s some connection there!
- It does still beg the question where Morgan got such an education to be designing starfighters at all, or gotten such a high position in Sienar, given that she is a refugee from a backwater planet. Clearly there’s yet more of her story to be told.
- A very interesting and well choreographed fight! You don’t often see melee fights in Star Wars that don’t involve at least one lightsaber, so it’s interesting to see, especially with a spear in the mix. If nothing else this also makes Ruhk seem far more formidable than he did ‘Rebels’, as we know Morgan could hold her own against Ahsoka . . . for a while.
- I don’t know why it didn’t occur to me that either Ruhk or Captain Pelleon would be here, but I should have, given the time period and the presence of Thrawn. The latter looks much bulkier and intimidating than he did in ‘Rebels’, while the former feels very natural given his implied connection to Elsbeth from his appearance in ‘The Mandalorian’.
- Straight off the bat; it’s obvious how all the fortifications and mercenary security aren’t there to protect the people from attack, but to keep the people contained and under constant watch, mostly to protect Morgan from them. Obviously this is intended to represent the Empire in microcosm. The only people being protected, are the people in power. Everyone else is a prisoner.
- In the trailer, I thought this New Republic ship was the same design as Palpatine’s CSS-1 Star Shuttle from the end of TPM, but it appears to be a new and distinct design, but clearly meant to be of the same lineage. Two engines instead of three, with the proportions shifted to give the impression of a cleaner, compact, and streamlined design overall. I’m sure some reference book will end up calling in the CSS-6/a or something.
- From what I can tell, this is the first appearance of what might be an R-6 astromech in animation (but then she calls it “R8” so who knows what model it’s meant to be!) I would have thought the asset would have been made for ‘Resistance’, but from what I can determine; apparently not!
- Am I the only one a little disappointed we didn’t get Michael Biehn back for this? I mean his character should be around somewhere as this is right before Ahsoka shows up. I know, it’s probably not economical to get him in to voice it without anything substantial for him to do, but how hard would it have been just to build the asset and have him standing around silently?
- Well, Morgan blowing up a diplomatic shuttle certainly gives a more solid reason for the NR to detain her for trial beyond simply “because she’s a baddie”. Not that it needed to be explained, but appreciated nonetheless.
- Presumably it’ll be a while before Ahsoka makes it here, and a while again before Dyn shows up, since I don’t recall a giant smouldering starship wreck sitting right outside the city gates in ‘The Mandalorian’.
- So, given the torrential rain and crazy lighting storm over Coruscant when Barris was recruited, I think it’s safe to assume it’s the same storm that was raging when Vader was being fitted into his suit. Nice bit of continuity, and still appropriate for setting the mood.
- Trained force user or no, it seems a bit overkill to have Barriss always cuffed, even in her cell. It’s not like Jedi need their hands in order to be dangerous! This feels like punishment for its own sake.
- Lyn Rakish/Fourth Sister seems to still be wearing Jedi robes when she comes to get Barris out of prison. That she’s the one trusted enough to be doing the recruiting and on literally day one of the Empire certainly suggests that like the Grand Inquisitor, she had been recruited ahead of time. Odd then given her implied seniority at this point that a decade later she’s largely remaining in the background, all but ignored by the other Inquisitors as they vie for position. Perhaps losing both a target and a traitor Sister Inquisitor on a hunt damaged her standing and the others stopped considering her a threat?
- On the subject of wardrobe; Barriss’s prison outfit seems damn near identical to the recording we saw of her old Master Luminara in Imperial custody (cowl and all!) One can’t help but wonder if she was also given a similar choice, but instead chose execution. That they both have a head covering is interesting; one can’t help but wonder if hair covering is a Mirialan cultural thing.
- Neat seeing Fortress Inquisitorious still under construction. They really didn’t waste any time! Though if memory serves, in the Vader comics they all hung out on Coruscant for a while at Sidious’s old hide-out in The Works until he got sick of them tearing up his capital and sent them and gave Vader that whole system just to get them out from underfoot. Hard to judge how much time passes in either story though, so it’s not a big deal.
- For a moment there I thought we were going to get The Grand Inquisitor’s actual name or some confirmation or denial of the idea that he was one of the Guards that brought Barriss in. Pretty nuts that this character has been around for a decade and yet we know next to nothing about his past! Not that knowing his name would make a huge impact or anything; but still . . . in a universe were every random extra gets a name, it feels weird!
- Pretty sure Dante is a Caphex; one of the “newer” designs from tRoS. Mostly I just remember the design from one of the last BF2 updates. Not so sure about Ahmar’s species design on the other hand. Could be an original design, or more likely from some unused concept art? If it’s the latter; nothing’s really leaping to mind. Given that they make a point to draw attention to the gem seemingly embedded in his chin; I’m guessing he was designed specifically for this purpose.
- A shared prison cell with an unlocked door. Clearly a test, but of what? Obedience? Fear?
- One kneeling in meditation, the other pacing back and forth. Last time we saw that, one got skewered and the other got cut in half, turned into an insane garbage spider, took over the underworld and wound up as a crazy old man wandering the desert . . . I suspect things will play out differently this time round!
- Looks like the fortress was built on some older ruins, just like Vader’s Castle. That was a shrine though; this feels more like a crypt. GI always did have a nosferatu vibe going on . . .
- First establishing shot on approach to Nur is in daylight, the second at dusk, the third at night with the blue glow of Jestefad taking up most of the sky, with red Mustafar off in the distance, then after the fight with GI, Mustafar alone dominates the sky over the bones of Fortress Inquisitorious. I see what they did there . . .
- More ancient ruins, and a bottomless pit. What was this place before? Sith? Something to do with the whole Lady Corvax thing? Even older than either?
- There’s a lot going on for such a relatively simple fight. Barriss doesn’t want to fight, Dante is clearly consumed by fear and attacks. Barriss plays defensively at first, not even trying to make a play for the saber even though she clearly outmatches him. It’s only when she’s injured by the shield and pushed to the brink that she succumbs to her anger and snaps his neck. Which is an interesting choice since we know she’s already murdered at least one person this way before.
- Curious that the helmet they hand her is very clearly meant to echo the mask she stole from Ventress. Clearly a deliberate choice and meant to convey a meaningful symbol. Does beg the question though; who designs all these unique armours and helmets, and to who’s specifications? Knowing Vader and Palpatine, probably a droid. Maybe even Professor Huyang’s Sith opposite number? Or some Sith cultist armourer?
- On a similar note; I’m just now noticing that Lyn’s Inquisitor outfit echos the cut of her Jedi robes. That seems consistent with how the Grand Inquisitor’s own outfit echos the armour of the Temple Guard, though it still begs the question of who is making such aesthetic choices. Also curious why some Inquisitors feel the need to cover their faces while others do not.
- Interesting choice of Inquisitors for this first meet & greet knee with Vader; Marrok, Birdnose, Lyn, and Barriss. No sign of the others shown in the Vader comic to be active at this time (Fifth Brother, Seventh Sister, Eighth Brother, Ninth Sister, Sixth Brother, Thirteen Sister & Tualon Yaluna.) That may well simply be a practical thing of not being able to afford building so many new character assets just for that one scene alone. Also in the comics most of those were still on Coruscant early one, so perhaps these are two different “classes” they kept separate, at least early on.
- Nice to see them getting more use from the TCW style Vader asset from the finale. And they even have him doing the belt-tuck pose Prowse was known for. Still feels weird to see him sit though . . .
- Barriss’s attitude in this scene can only be described as “resigned”. Which feels consistent with her arc thus far. Her actions before her imprisonment were motivated by a desperation on her part to push back against the chaos of the war, ill conceived though it may have been. She wasn’t out to a greed for power and status like Pong Krell and the GI, nor is she motivated by fear like some of the others. She’s driven to this by her anger at a larger injustice. She still wants to do the right thing.
- While it’s certainly nice to see them using the Scythe in this, it does beg the question why they seemingly stopped using it in favour of TIEs. Of course had this design existed before making ‘Rebels’ and/or ‘Fallen Order’ we’d likely have seen this a lot more often, so best to just chalk it up to one of those production limitations and pretend like it was always there, off to the side.
- No telling exactly when this takes place, but I feel like it has to be early on. Certainly within the first year, but for all we know this could have literally been Barriss’s first mission. I doubt it, but it's possible.
- Not sure how a group of unarmed civilians living in bombed out ruins are meant to be “rebelling” in any meaningful way. It’s obvious the Empire simply doesn’t care enough about the resources here (yet) to bother with a post-war reconstruction. There are some subtle clues that this place used to be prosperous; while ragged, the clothes some of these people wear look like they used to be quite fine. The floor used to be colourfully tiled, barstools being used as tables, and one of those objects Lyn uses to block the door is a “credit pusher” gambling machine. Meaning this place probably used to be the local cantina.
- Curious how they never bothered to say what Barriss’s Inquisitorial name is. Almost as if she was never fully devoted to the cause, nor ever really abandoned who she was as a Jedi. For those that wish to speculate; by my count the numbers 2-10 & 13 are all taken, though we also have two other named but unnumbered Inquisitors, and two that are neither named or numbered. So Barriss could be Eleventh, Twelfth, Fourteenth or above Sister. I think if there’s a “First” anything, it’ll be the GI.
- Barriss didn’t partake in that slaughter, but she didn’t exactly rush to stop it either. She just stood there disapprovingly as a room full of helpless civilians were cut to pieces. Still holding onto that “ends justify the means” mentality. That said, her reaction makes me feel like this isn’t par for the course for them, meaning this really is one of her first missions, or Fourth Sister is changing.
- This may be as violent a scene as Star Wars animation has ever done, even if the grisly nature is more implied than depicted; you can almost imagine the smell of all the cauterised flesh.
- Part of me wonders what that little girl’s story is after this. Did we just witness the origin story of another Saw Gurerra in the making? A future Stormtrooper recruit? A Cad Bane? I guess only time will tell.
- Leaping over a dark abyss? I think I see the symbolism at play here. A threshold has been crossed, for both of them.
- They’ve gotten so much better at these lightsaber fights, even giving this new character their own unique style. Indeed it’s very telling how both of them are fighting; Lyn is all just wild horizontal slashes back and forth, depending on the spin gimmick of her sabre to provide all of the power. The unnamed Jedi is clearly already exhausted, swinging and giving ground to keep her at bay. Only when they’re backed up to the tree to they even try to move into a counter-offensive; even then they’re mostly on the defensive, only landing a blow in the form of a spinning cross-kick (which we also see Ahsoka deliver in ‘Shadow Warrior’) before moving in for a killing blow.
- Note that this is the first time we see Barriss even reach for a sabre since her sparring with the GI (even when her life was on the line), and it’s a move to protect someone else. She still sees violence as a last resort, despite everything she’s done. The fact she wants to bring them in still says she’s deluding herself that this is a life worth living . . . that viewpoint changes quite quickly though once Lyn just goes for a cowardly, and rather sloppy attempt at a kill, even though they’d already deactivated their blade. Then once more when Lyn moves to attack her; Barriss again doesn’t draw her sabre but instead call on the force.
- I should also note that once again we see a transition in the colour of the sky, only this time from the blood red of a setting sun as they ascend the mountaintop, to the cool purplish blue of night once all is said and done. Barriss is returning to the light, but there’s still a ways to go.
- I don’t know why exactly, but I always like when Star Wars does snowy environments. In this case I especially like that they made the location in that desiccated deadzone you get close to a large glacier, where nothing can grow because the ice has condensed and frozen all of the moisture. A frozen desert, but still a desert. It also means this probably isn’t an ice world persee, just a world that has a glacial biome somewhere.
- The design of this attendant feels familiar. Could be another reused of an obscure background creature, or based on some unused concept art. Or maybe it’s just because he looks like a Talz crossed with Teek. The Mount is a new design too I think. A little bit Nerfy, a little bit Dewbacky.
- The dwelling looks like a temporary prefab shelter, and doesn’t look as if it’s been there very long, going by the condition of the canvas. It’s possible they keep moving locations, for obvious reasons.
- Even the interior looks shockingly clean and neat. Very simple and spartan; much like her old temple quarters. Not even any decorations or keepsakes, just the bare necessary practical items and some candles.
- From Barriss’s lined appearance we can assume it’s been a significant amount of time, though since the Empire is still a thing, it can’t be more than 25-ish years. Given Fourth Sister’s presence in Obi-Wan it has to be after that, and I’m inclined to think this takes place before the end of ‘Rebels’. Not simply because of her absence in ‘Rebels’, since that proves nothing in and of itself, but mostly because of Filoni’s determination to take all of the Inquisitors he introduced off the board before the OT. All that plus the way she says “long ago, before the Empire” makes me inclined to push this as far down the timeline as possible, so I’m going to say this is within a year of the ‘Rebels’ finale & RO/ANH.
- Now either way that doesn’t seem like enough time given she was a teenager in the Clone Wars, thus making her *at most* mid-40s here. However if we take into account a few decades of high stress, hard living in harsh environments, and factor in the possibility that she’s been using the force to heal people by giving up her own lifeforce, then I think we have much more leeway. Indeed given that we now know of Vernestra Rwoh; her people live quite a bit longer than humans, so she must have given away a *lot* of her own life over the years.
- For those not in the know; Barriss’s story in the EU clone wars books (specifically the MedStar Duology) featured her spending much of the war serving as a healer, as that was her particular talent. So this feels like a fitting way for her canon incarnation to seek redemption.
- A curious detail to this story; “That’s when we met the traveller and he told us to find you.” I wonder who this “traveller” was, and how did he know of Barriss? Most likely nobody we know, and even if it was It’s not likely to have been another surviving Jedi like Voss, or Cal, since they wouldn’t have passed them along, but seen to the family themselves. Most likely just an ally of The Hidden Path.
- She has the same beakers as Beru had in her kitchen in ANH! I don’t know why that jumped out at me, but it did.
- While the obvious candidates for this “old friend” are Ahsoka and Ventress, there is a more mundane potential answer; the young girl from the previous episode. What if Barriss went back for her after rescuing the Jedi, and raised her?
- But since most people are more likely to discuss the possibility of a known character connection; Ahsoka dedicating herself to the Hidden Path between escaping Malachor and returning to train Sabine would be a neat way for her to still do some good without interfering with the fates of Kanan and Ezra, or indeed the event of the OT. Ventress’s involvement with the Hidden Path seems all but confirmed given we know Voss was a part of it, and the way she showed up in ‘The Bad Batch’. That’s all assuming of course that Barriss is a part of the Hidden Path at all, and isn’t just running her own independent operation.
- I really liked that she told her attendants to pass on what they have learned. A very Jedi thing to do, as is remaining behind to delay the enemy.
- As is often the case with Star Wars; there’s an element of the Western in this. Barriss is like an old gunslinger that once ran with a bad posse, before escaping that life, but now her past has finally (literally) caught up with her.
- Interesting that Lyn seems willing to ignore Barriss’s presence, only attacking when her path is blocked.
- Also noticed that several of her moves are one we see Ahsoka use in her show; dodging the thrown sabre with ease, blocking the blade with her bare hand. All without drawing her own sabre (if she even bothers to still carry one.) Still trying to save Lyn from herself. This feels like the mark of a true Jedi Master, not a mere fallen Knight. She’s more of a Jedi now than she ever was in the Order.
- How much do we want to bet there’s kyber in amongst all that ice? Either way there’s clearly something about that path that’s strong in the force, like the other vision caves we’ve seen before. For all we know, there’s an ancient temple buried under all that ice.
- The starship looks like a new design, but has a familiar feel. A little bit like a quad-jumper, a little bit like Kea Moll’s Starrunner, if only in silhouette.
- I really like the economy of storytelling with Lyn’s character. We know nothing about her really, but we can infer much. This all feels perfectly in line with how Lucas viewed what makes people turn to the dark side, and what they must do to turn back. Lyn was consumed by fear, and Barriss knew that she had to let it go to save herself.
- I also very much appreciate that Barriss’s ultimate fate is left up in the air. Whether or not she survives, I still feel like a complete story has been told, and the door has been left open for future storytellers to continue her and/or Lyn’s story if the want or need for it is there.
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I hate to double post, but I actually hit the character limit with that last one!
Also implies an interesting character growth for Bo-Katan even pre-Mando Season 3 by having her even answer a distress call from a non-Mandalorian. I'm not sure even the Bo from 'Rebels' would have cared enough to bother.
It's neat how she's gone from the least interesting Inquisitor from 'Kenobi', to now the one I most want to know both the backstory, and fate of.
I really do appreciate the economy of storytelling there. Just by having Katie Sackoff's voice on the other end of the comlink they filled it what felt like a (very very) little bit of a plot hole for Mando; specifically how the hell did Bo-Katan randomly know where a vagabond like Ahsoka was at that specific moment. It doesn't 100% spell it out, just gives us that extra little dot to connect the two points and assume that Bo was the one to alert Ahsoka to the situation on that planet, and in that city, specifically.
Also implies an interesting character growth for Bo-Katan even pre-Mando Season 3 by having her even answer a distress call from a non-Mandalorian. I'm not sure even the Bo from 'Rebels' would have cared enough to bother.
I just assumed she used the force to arrest her fall. She was otherwise uninjured and fully conscious when she was flung off, so she wouldn't have pancaked like Mace Windu obviously did.
I wouldn't be shocked if there's a novel telling exactly that leg of her story in the making. I think with this show, Dave's told as much of her story as he intends to, so I doubt it'll be ring-fenced away from publishing like Barriss, Ahsoka & the Rebels cast have been for the most part.
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Or stun
Only in books.
"Dante's choking" was the lesser known work prior to the Inferno.
That was the metanarrative of the fight itself, yes. But I noticed a few smaller details that made me think of both season 7 & live action Ahsoka's style. It's possible they just used some of the same reference footage, or if it was performance capture, it may be the same martial artist.
I enjoyed these, but I'd love to know how Morgan went from orphan to Magistrate.
