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Starship life spans?

Unicron

Additional Pylon
Moderator
I was wondering how long a "typical" life span for a Trek ship might be. The Galaxy was specifically mentioned to have a span of about a century, and we've easily seen other designs operate in about that frame.

I've also seen other series where designs can have very long spans, albeit in successive models. BattleTech is one example, with a large contingent of military designs remaining in service for several centuries, the models varying over time but keeping the basic design. This also seems to be true on a smaller scale in Star Wars, as a number of older designs have remained in use long after they stopped production, or when very few remain.

sunshine1.gif
 
In Anne McCaffrey's book, 'The Ship Who Sang', the main character (a singing ship), could live over 100 years. Below is excerpt from story:

"Alone with all of space and time. Even the Horsehead Nebula would not be far enough away to daunt her. Alone with a hundred years to live with her memories and nothing … nothing more."
 
Well a number of the ships also seem to have a hundred year endurance. Like the Mirandas which were around for both early Kirk and the Dominion (though it was grizzly watching those poor things up against 24th century warships).

My guess is that with the repair capabilities of starfleet ships don't wear out the way cars do, though they certainly need heavy maintenence from time to time. I'm guessing ships keep going until they're so obsolete that it's a liability to fly around in them and/or it's decided that it'd be better to build a new ship than keep sinking effort and dilithium into the existing one.

Other alien ships in the series had managed to last hundreds or thousands of years like the Pralor and Tin Man.
 
I think the lifespan of a ship class depends on how much Starfleet values the particular design myself. If a class proves itself to be a very useful tool in carrying out certain kinds of missions, Starfleet probably is more inclined to keep the design in service for a very long time, especially if it's a versatile design that can be easily upgraded or mass produced in fairly large numbers (the Galaxy-class could fall in the former category and the Miranda-class in the latter).

It's also possible that some starship designs may be retired before their time by new technologies that come along that prove to be incompatible. A ship class may have an expected operational lifespan of a 100 years, but may be retired after only 40 or so because it can't take on a new computer or deflector shield system...
 
If the question is "how long can a particular design configuration remain useful" the answer is based entirely upon how quickly technology advances, and how MODULAR the original design was (ie, can you swap out subsystems with newer ones without a full drydocking of the vessel or do you need to rip the ship apart in order to do it?).

On the other hand, there's another question that I think is far more pertinent, based upon what we've seen... and that is "how long can a particular spaceframe last." The answer to that, of course, depends on how harshly that spaceframe is treated. Put a Galaxy class in a "LOooooove Booooatt" mode... nice, peaceful exploration without any combat or "quantum string fragment" issues or whatever... without being eaten by intelligent bacteriums or reconfigured by the Borg... just nice, leisurely cruising... and it will certainly last for a century, I think.

On the other hand, subject a Constitution to Kelvan design modifications, to nuclear blasts at point-blank range by Romulans, etc, etc... and that particular spaceframe might last a couple of decades. Of course, you can then rebuild it one chunk at a time, call it a "refit" (despite having essentially none of the original vessel present anymore) and that will last another twenty years 'til Admiral Morrow decides to retire it (due to it having the snot kicked out of it numerous times, including being nearly destroyed by Khan, of course).

The short form... a ship that is babied will last as long as the technology is useful, or as long as it can be easily reconfigured to accept new technology. A ship that sees major abuse will last a couple of decades.

Sound about right?
 
For what it's worth I seem to recall that in Battletech the reason for such long lived designs is that the basic technology to build battlemech was lost to the Inner Sphere. Therefore the vehicles need to be salvaged after battles to make use of the reactors/myomers/et cetera that can't be easily replaced. The Clans were able to build new componants and therefore were able to operate a little more freely and design more varied machines.

Not Trek, but you brought it up.... :p
 
That's true to an extent, but many designs were in service for long periods (a century or more) before the original Star League fell. The Clans were still using essentially Star League era warships when they invaded the Inner Sphere in 3049.

The IS never fully lost the capacity to build units like battlemechs (although it lost the ability to build warships and jumpships). What it lost was the ability to maintain the advanced technology the League created, because that advanced tech was a prime target. Nicholas made sure in his second Exodus that the Clans didn't suffer that problem.

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Got to remember that starships--and space ships in general--don't have as much wear and tear on them as, say, cars or boats or even modern naval ships. Their hulls won't rust, there isn't any friction to degrade their hull plating, and generally experience very predictable, uniform hull stresses so that metal fatigue can be easily rectified. Other than that, a few engine parts--plasma injectors, warp coils, warp cores, etc--would need to be replaced periodically from use, but starships would be designed so this is easy to do.

Consider that the Mir space station lasted better than twenty years with only ad-hoc maintenance and lacking anything close to a major overhaul. Other space craft like Voyager and Pioneer are still functioning to this day, and many satellites have ten to twenty year lifespans. And then there was Hathaway, which remained adrift for decades after being abandoned; I think most of the things that were wrong with Hathaway when Riker's crew went aboard were probably the result of whatever it is that caused the crew to abandon it; a couple weeks in space dock and the ship would probably be ready for duty anyway.

I would think that most of the things that can go wrong on a starship are easily repaired, but the ship would have to stop off every five to ten years at a starbase for big things like warp cores, computer cores, etc. Every twenty years, a MAJOR overhaul, mostly a refit of internal spaces and equipment (and a new bridge and equipment) but also, sometimes, the exterior of the ship is redesigned too. If they're good at keeping up with the maintenance, a starship should be able to last a century or more.
 
Newtype_A said:
Got to remember that starships--and space ships in general--don't have as much wear and tear on them as, say, cars or boats or even modern naval ships. Their hulls won't rust, there isn't any friction to degrade their hull plating, and generally experience very predictable, uniform hull stresses so that metal fatigue can be easily rectified. Other than that, a few engine parts--plasma injectors, warp coils, warp cores, etc--would need to be replaced periodically from use, but starships would be designed so this is easy to do.

Consider that the Mir space station lasted better than twenty years with only ad-hoc maintenance and lacking anything close to a major overhaul. Other space craft like Voyager and Pioneer are still functioning to this day, and many satellites have ten to twenty year lifespans. And then there was Hathaway, which remained adrift for decades after being abandoned; I think most of the things that were wrong with Hathaway when Riker's crew went aboard were probably the result of whatever it is that caused the crew to abandon it; a couple weeks in space dock and the ship would probably be ready for duty anyway.

I would think that most of the things that can go wrong on a starship are easily repaired, but the ship would have to stop off every five to ten years at a starbase for big things like warp cores, computer cores, etc. Every twenty years, a MAJOR overhaul, mostly a refit of internal spaces and equipment (and a new bridge and equipment) but also, sometimes, the exterior of the ship is redesigned too. If they're good at keeping up with the maintenance, a starship should be able to last a century or more.
I disagree. Not because any of your points are wrong, but rather because you ignore the idea that there are many OTHER issues in space.

For instance, non-metallic materials... certainly all polymers, and many ceramics... degrade VERY rapidly in exposure to a hard vacuum, particularly when combined with exposure to the unfiltered radiation that's seen outside of a planetary atmosphere. Metallic materials tend to be somewhat more viable in this sort of situation.

A starship, as portrayed in Trek, is subjected to accelerative forces far in excess of anything we've ever seen... to the point where they have to rely in inertial dampening forcefields to keep the crew from being turned into red smears on the walls. We've repeatedly had dramatized sequences when a ship's hull was overstressed to the point where it was "nearly failing."

Plus, plus, exposure to phaser and torpedo fire (even if filtered through deflectors and shields, SOME of it always gets through doesn't it?). All varieties of radiation. Flights through all sorts of nebulae. Dipping into the atmospheres of planets. You name it.

So, yes, it's true that you eliminate some of the atmosphere-and-gravity-based issues in space. But Mir was in a net-zero-acceleration situation throughout its whole operational life, excepting when it was launched and when it fell back to Earth. Short low-acceleration "correction" maneuvers pretty much were the limit of the causes of mechanical strain applied to Mir.

Truth is, we are still infants in the "space survivability" field of study. I've deal a tiny bit with some of that... some materials compatibility work. Other people know a lot more about it, but I know enough to know that it's a very difficult issue to deal with. Space is an extremely hostile environment... every bit as hostile as the oceanic one. Not just for humans, but for hardware as well.

Ultimately, the "real answer" here is that ships last as long as the writers want them to survive, we all know that, in Trek. But if we're going to try to think about this logically, let's consider all the issues... including those above.
 
Cary L. Brown said:
non-metallic materials... certainly all polymers, and many ceramics... degrade VERY rapidly in exposure to a hard vacuum, particularly when combined with exposure to the unfiltered radiation that's seen outside of a planetary atmosphere. Metallic materials tend to be somewhat more viable in this sort of situation.
And starships are generally made of metallic materials, some of them quite fanciful (all the windows are transparrent aluminum). Natural degredation is probably not going to be a problem; the occasional micrometeor impact might, if the deflectors aren't doing their job.

Cary L. Brown said:
A starship, as portrayed in Trek, is subjected to accelerative forces far in excess of anything we've ever seen... to the point where they have to rely in inertial dampening forcefields to keep the crew from being turned into red smears on the walls.
What's true for the crew is equally true for the ship. If the crew isn't subject to extreme accelerative force on a regular basis, then neither is the space frame. More to the point, inertial dampeners don't seem to work that way; at best they smooth out SUDDEN acceleration like a gravitational shock absorber or the airbag in your car.

Immanent failure of structural integrity is always a problem, but far less so for a ship that seldom has to support its own weight for prolonged periods of time. It's not as if you can cause the ship to disintegrate just by breaking the keel or some other arbitrary structural point. Indeed, depending on how we believe the warp engines actually function, the ship wouldn't experience any significant stress at any time during normal operations.

Cary L. Brown said:
Plus, plus, exposure to phaser and torpedo fire (even if filtered through deflectors and shields, SOME of it always gets through doesn't it?). All varieties of radiation. Flights through all sorts of nebulae. Dipping into the atmospheres of planets. You name it.
Except for atmospheric interface--the number one cause of destruction for all space craft--most of these things are, again, momentary stresses on the hull which have the benefit of not being compounded by CONSTANT stress of load-bearing structures and gravitation. The spaceframe doesn't have to support the entire weight of a few hundred thousand metric tons every second of its life, so it's undoubtedly designed to react better to SHOCK damage than prolonged structural punishment. Beyond that, every second the ship isn't falling into an atmosphere or being pummeled by photon torpedoes or flying two factors past maximum warp or plowing through a supernova stellar nebula is one second longer it will last than, say, a modern aircraft carrier.

Cary L. Brown said:
But Mir was in a net-zero-acceleration situation throughout its whole operational life, excepting when it was launched and when it fell back to Earth.
Technically, so are most starships, considering they make large use of their warp engines for travel which, technically, produce a net-zero-acceleration situation even while moving the ship.

Cary L. Brown said:
Short low-acceleration "correction" maneuvers pretty much were the limit of the causes of mechanical strain applied to Mir.
As with a starship's impulse drive. Surely, impulse engines would produce significantly more thrust than Mir's gyros and rockets, but nobody said impulse engines and related structural elements wouldn't have to be replaced fairly often.
 
No point in arguing with ya... you seem determined to disregard the points I made out-of-hand, and it's not like any of this is real so it's hard to get too annoyed about it.

But... are you actually Newtype Alpha, back again, or are you someone else?
 
To look at real ships the American Iowa class battleships were still in service in the 2002 gulf wars at 60 yrs old.
 
With navigational deflectors, exotic alloys, construction improvements (molecular bonding), structural enhancement, and replicated parts, a 24th century starship that is designed in a modular fashion that can swap out parts and even whole compartments, could last for many centuries. Is it as exciting on the screen? No, we all love to see new classes, but its probably likely based on what we see on screen.

RAMA
 
...Also, it might take a few centuries before a Trek culture believes it has the formula of the perfect starship down pat, and stops designing new ones. The Klingons probably hit that stage in the 22nd-23rd centuries, with apparently eternally good battle cruisers and birds of prey. The Feds may be a younger culture, still working out the kinks of designing ships by committee of about 150 species...

Once the perfect starship has been found, then it's time to start manufacturing them for posterity, with the sort of materials that last for millennia. The Klingon BoP or the Tholian webspinner may well be such ship designs.

Timo Saloniemi
 
With the Klingons, it may be just a cultural thing. They might simply not feel the need to constantly keep cranking out new starship designs like the Federation does. When new technologies come along, they may simply incorporate them into their existing designs rather than build a new design around them.

Klingon shipbuilding policy may differ from the Federation's in that their navy simply doesn't feel compelled to build multiple starship classes like Starfleet does to do its job.
 
Let's not forget that Starfleet ships are highly versatile and effective in all those areas.

If we take into consideration the advances of technologies and such ... I think we can safely assume that SF ships that have a life span of 100 years are EXPECTED to take punishment in battle engagements and from various anomalies, and still last as much as they are stated.

One other thing ... with replicator technology and 24th century starship designs ... it's entirely plausible that many classes of ships from the mid/late 24th century would still be used 200 years down the line.
Heck ... I think I recall an alternate time-line in Enterprise in which we saw a Prometheus class in the 26th century.

Let's take some things into perspective.
SF can create a design from 200 years ago with advanced materials and what not quite easily.
they merely have to modify the internal arrangement of the new equipment so it can fit, but they can do it.

The Lakota is an 80 years old design after all with a similar life-span most likely and it was completely upgraded prior to the Dominion War.

They can also replicate/construct new hull plates every 100 years that would last another century if not much more.

Although ...
Something is puzzling.
If an expected starship hull life is 100 years (and it has been like that in 23rd century) then why isn't that number larger in the 24th century ?

Ok ... ignoring the replacement of hull plates with entirely new ones, why don't new materials in the 24th century have a longer life expectancy from their 23rd century counterparts ?

One might assume the Feds primarily focused on making stronger materials instead of increasing their life expectancy ... but a century to go by without increasing star-ship's life span is a bit odd.
 
Another thought occurred to me. While the TNG Tech Manual inferred a 100-year lifespan for the Galaxy-class, that might only be under best case conditions. Starfleet might discover that the actual average life-span of a Galaxy-class starship is significantly shorter once out in the field.

That doesn't mean that a Galaxy-class ship can't have a 100-year lifespan, but such a vessel might not be in active service the entire time. There may be instances in which it could be in mothballs for a decade or two before returning to duty when needed for a mission. Perhaps that was the story with the 80-year old USS Hathaway...
 
One reason I liked the Klingon Ship Recognition Manual for the FASA RPG. It showed us a reasonably diverse fleet, without a lot of the kitbashing that was done for the Fed SRM. Several designs were pretty nice, like the D-10 cruiser.

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Cary L. Brown said:
But... are you actually Newtype Alpha, back again, or are you someone else?
Yeah, back from the dead. Couldn't get in with my old account, so to save time I just made a new one (been a while anyway).

And I'm not disregarding your points out of hand. Just making the case that as far as space craft, structural wear and tear isn't going to be a major concern for longevity no matter what you subject your ships too, simply because the ship is generally weightless and doesn't have to put up with constant stress over a long period of time. Therefore, I would expect any starship to last AT LEAST twice as long as its terrestrial counterpart (even comparing starships to aircraft, which would be just as apt). Modularity alone would limit a vessel's usefulness, but not its ability to still function in some limited capacity; supposing the Constitution class wasn't versatile enough to be upgraded the way the Mirandas were--which I doubt--then probably the balance of them were stripped of weapons and used as medical ships or science vessels like some of the Oberths that showed up in TNG.
 
C.E. Evans said:
With the Klingons, it may be just a cultural thing. They might simply not feel the need to constantly keep cranking out new starship designs like the Federation does. When new technologies come along, they may simply incorporate them into their existing designs rather than build a new design around them.
Actually, I got the impression that Klingons are constantly cranking out new starship designs that all LOOK exactly the same. Maybe as a function of their culture, they consider the appearance of a ship to be a matter of style, not a matter of function. In that case, when a bunch of Klingons gets together to design a new starship, they start with a naked space frame that already exists without any equipment (say, an empty D-7 hull) and figure out what they're going to put in/on that spaceframe to make a new design. Chicago street racers do something like this; you will never in your life see so many different variations of the Honda Civic.

So the difference between any two Klingon ships isn't what they look like, but what is actually INSIDE them. Then it's only once every few decades some Klingon artist comes along who designs a new type of space frame for engineers to work with or (in the case of the Bird of Prey) they borrow one from the Romulans and then create a dozen different ship classes all with different weapons, sensors and engines. We're already halfway there with the modern navy; most U.S. submarines have more or less the same hull configuration, it's what's INSIDE that hull that sets them apart.

In the 24th century we see the Vorcha and Negh'var classes; probably, somebody (Gowron Perhaps) encouraged Klingon naval architects to express themselves a bit and they came up with a few new space frame designs. Want to bet that in another decade there will be a few hundred new Klingon ship classes on the books?
 
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