Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 1x08 - "The Elysian Kingdom"

[Oddish]

QUOTE: If you can't see that's what they're doing in the episode, re-watch it. If it was done as humor or something else that would be fine but the mode of the allegory is clear.

Considering that Star Trek has had souls, resurrections, immortal beings of godlike power, and higher planes of existence woven into its very mythos since TOS, I rather wonder how you can stand watching it. "The Elysian Kingdom" is not an outlier in this regard, but rather a variation on a long-running theme.

 

[Sci]

They're all the same for the most part, if they can be called a religion. They have imaginary comic book gods that want you to do stuff.

Tell me you don't know jack shit about a bunch of Asian religions without telling me you don't know jack shit about a bunch of Asian religions.

If there are some other minor ones whose gods are completely hands off...who cares. I'm talking about the majority, and hence 'generally' above.

What a European Christian-centric POV.

Hell, what about traditions within Judaism wherein God is a being with whom humans must argue and demand he make better choices?

My only out-group (whatever that is)

More ignorance.

or their ideas of how to treat others who aren't like their intolerant selves.

Their intolerant selves, huh.

That's not some minor segment in the US, or the world, as you try to pretend - presumably disingenuously. Nice try tho.

I made no claims about what is or is not a "minor segment." What I argued was that your understanding of what constitutes religion and how religions inherently function is inadequate. If you make a claim that all X are Y, you can't just ignore examples of X that are not Y.

I explained why it's irritating in Star trek

Yes yes yes, like every bigot you want your TV shows to validate your prejudices. Predictable.

The writer is likely a god-delusionist trying to deceptively get their idiotic beliefs in thru the back door.

It's an episode about a dad learning to let go and let his daughter live her life in a way he hadn't previously imagined she would, with a silly "characters mind controlled into behaving like they're from another story" trope. Responding to that by accusing it of spreading religious beliefs you disapprove of is ridiculous.

It's science fiction as I've said, it doesn't belong here. The whole episode is allegorically saying: you know all that "we don't die, you'll see you family again in the afterlife", all that god stuff humans made up? It's true!

You could just as easily interpret it as an allegory for accepting your child is gay or has decided to move to another country.

 

[Tuskin38]

Can you please take this to DMs, or a create a separate topic in TNZ. I'm begging you.

 

[Michael]

They're all the same for the most part, if they can be called a religion. They have imaginary comic book gods that want you to do stuff. If there are some other minor ones whose gods are completely hands off...who cares. I'm talking about the majority, and hence 'generally' above. But that's one big function of the god disease: get people to behave better. It doesn't work and I'm not interested in their ancient warped moral concepts anyway.

My only out-group (whatever that is) are the delusional simpletons who think ancient middle eastern creation myths are a good place to get their morality or explanations of the universe from, or their ideas of how to treat others who aren't like their intolerant selves. That's not some minor segment in the US, or the world, as you try to pretend - presumably disingenuously. Nice try tho.

I explained why it's irritating in Star trek my first post, should you care to re-read it: it's underhanded and obvious. The writer is likely a god-delusionist trying to deceptively get their idiotic beliefs in thru the back door. It's science fiction as I've said, it doesn't belong here. The whole episode is allegorically saying: you know all that "we don't die, you'll see you family again in the afterlife", all that god stuff humans made up? It's true!

If you can't see that's what they're doing in the episode, re-watch it. If it was done as humor or something else that would be fine but the mode of the allegory is clear.

I‘ve been a staunch atheist for as long as I can remember and even I think all of what you are saying makes you look like an utter buffoon. You‘re entirely misreading this whole episode.

 

[Oddish]

Can you please take this to DMs, or a create a separate topic in TNZ. I'm begging you.

I can't know for sure, but I'd be very surprised if there's not already a topic in TNZ. Our obnoxiously evangelistic friend here could probably find several interesting discussions over there.

 

[Mudd]

Can we back up to "Let's lose the religion discussion?"

 

[Mutai Sho-Rin]

Of course it is both oppressive and authoritarian, obviously. In fact supremely so since it talks about supreme supernatural authority. One must believe and act in accordance with nutty, random millennia-old, generally middle eastern moral code. Yeah, no thanks. We should be glad this foolishness isn't real and it must be spoken against, not justified and legitimized as you are trying to do.

Furthermore, the believer is to be happy to submit to this idiotic BS and not question it either, and continuously think and talk about it as well. You're not to 'test the lord' either, or use your own intellectual power of human reason. They don't want you thinking reasonably about life, the universe, because they know what will happen. Instead fill your life with worship and godly thoughts, at all times. If you have non-godly, evil thoughts, suppress them.

If you don't see that as oppression, I don't know what to say. Any authoritarian regime could only hope to have this sort of ability. So they do attempt the same thing: they similarly don't want you thinking about or protesting their invented illegitimate power. Just think only in their way, accept it, and you won't be harmed. You'll have a prosperous life in fact.

We don't need destructive god-bs in the world any more, nor it being legitimized in entertainment such as Star trek. Popular culture needs to speak against it in fact, to bring it down - just as we do with lesser forms of oppression such as the regimes, aspirational or otherwise, of trump and putin.

Warning for Trolling. I asked for this to end; if you want to argue religion, go to TNZ.

 

[Oddish]

Or Miscellaneous. I would enjoy taking that guy on.

Getting back to the episode, which of the characters do you think played against type (i.e. their actual character) the most?

 

[Sci]

Or Miscellaneous. I would enjoy taking that guy on.

Getting back to the episode, which of the characters do you think played against type (i.e. their actual character) the most?

Definitely La'an as the frilly, semi sexualized, weak princess.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Pike as the foppish coward.

 

[Oddish]

Definitely La'an as the frilly, semi sexualized, weak princess.

With her Princess Pooch. Check this out...

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[Beckler]

Tell me you don't know jack shit about a bunch of Asian religions without telling me you don't know jack shit about a bunch of Asian religions.
..
Yes yes yes, like every bigot you want your TV shows to validate your prejudices. Predictable.
...
You could just as easily interpret it as an allegory for accepting your child is gay or has decided to move to another country.

Your silly, babbling reply doesn't deserve attention, but on the above points: I already addressed the first, twice now. We're discussing the most prominent religions that involve hands-on, demanding gods. (Myself I couldn't care less about those, nor the minor ones - go waste your own life reading about them yourself.)

I'm specifically speaking out against bigotry and intolerance; those who preach it because of their religion - yet I'm the bigot, eh? Some basic logic for you: tolerance doesn't extend to tolerating intolerance. Obviously.

No the slightly reasonable viewer CAN'T interpret it those ways since it was explicitly about afterlife in an episode in which the afterlife realm was associated with "you're describing a god" statement. Stop trying to twist obvious things.

Why are people mentioning TNZ as though everyone knows what that is? Not that I'm interested, really - I've not much interest in continuing this. Talking about religion is mostly a waste of time since it involves stupidity, even among non-believers, and doesn't change much. However that's not entirely true; people can actually walk away from the disease if they choose... (I have seen it happen.)

(Btw, this isn't trolling. Trolling is where you are intentionally trying to get a response with insincerity. Whereas I actually can't stand religion and ancient creation myths which apparently still deserve special respect - so always choose to speak out against the extreme stupidity they embody.)

 

[Oddish]

Not that I'm interested, really - I've not much interest in continuing this.

Given that you've effectively hijacked a topic intended to discuss an episode of television to your own evangelical purposes, and ignored multiple instructions by the moderator to desist, it's obviously a big deal to you.

 

[Mutai Sho-Rin]

Your silly, babbling reply doesn't deserve attention, but on the above points: I already addressed the first, twice now. We're discussing the most prominent religions that involve hands-on, demanding gods. (Myself I couldn't care less about those, nor the minor ones - go waste your own life reading about them yourself.)

I'm specifically speaking out against bigotry and intolerance; those who preach it because of their religion - yet I'm the bigot, eh? Some basic logic for you: tolerance doesn't extend to tolerating intolerance. Obviously.

No the slightly reasonable viewer CAN'T interpret it those ways since it was explicitly about afterlife in an episode in which the afterlife realm was associated with "you're describing a god" statement. Stop trying to twist obvious things.

Why are people mentioning TNZ as though everyone knows what that is? Not that I'm interested, really - I've not much interest in continuing this. Talking about religion is mostly a waste of time since it involves stupidity, even among non-believers, and doesn't change much. However that's not entirely true; people can actually walk away from the disease if they choose... (I have seen it happen.)

(Btw, this isn't trolling. Trolling is where you are intentionally trying to get a response with insincerity. Whereas I actually can't stand religion and ancient creation myths which apparently still deserve special respect - so always choose to speak out against the extreme stupidity they embody.)

Second Trolling warning. Just give it up! You’re welcome to your own definition of Trolling, just like your own personal distortions of religion but this thread ISN’T THE PLACE!

 

[Oddish]

Guess I knew that was going to happen...

Anyway, yeah, I think La'an and her pooch probably take first place. Though Captain Fop and Nails of Death Uhura are worthy entries.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Rewatching this. Never noticed Crimson Guard Mitchell has a scar over her eye.